WMU- yea or nea?

DeSchaine · Apr 2, 2015

Ok, so I've done the reading and searching and honestly, I'm as fracking confused as ever. I know that, supposedly, MSU, Wayne State and U of M are somehow exempt from MI gun laws (STILL dont get how that works). But nothing is mentioned about Western Michigan University and yet they have this policy. I've got a few questions about it.

1. Can this policy really be legally enforced?

2. Does it apply to the Asylum Lake preserve area?

3. If it can't be enforced legally, and DOES apply to the preserve area, do I need my CPL to carry there when I take my dog out there?

Venator · Apr 3, 2015

DeSchaine said:
Ok, so I've done the reading and searching and honestly, I'm as fracking confused as ever. I know that, supposedly, MSU, Wayne State and U of M are somehow exempt from MI gun laws (STILL dont get how that works). But nothing is mentioned about Western Michigan University and yet they have this policy. I've got a few questions about it.

1. Can this policy really be legally enforced?

2. Does it apply to the Asylum Lake preserve area?

3. If it can't be enforced legally, and DOES apply to the preserve area, do I need my CPL to carry there when I take my dog out there?

No person shall possess on University property any firearms or other dangerous weapons with the exception of police officers, transfer agents licensed to carry weapons and persons using any such weapons for class instruction when authorized by the dean of the appropriate college.
Any student, faculty member or other university employee violating this rule shall be subject to suspension or dismissal. Any person violating this rule will be subject to criminal prosecution.

If you are one of those in Bold above you are subject to their policy. All others it seems would be subject to state law.

This policy would include ALL WMU property.

OC4me · Apr 6, 2015

The OP seems to be aware of the university policy, I would gather that he is trying to determine whether or not the policy itself has a legal basis, and thus enforceable. Sorry but I can't help, but I think his question is a legitimate one.

Venator · Apr 7, 2015

OC4me said:
The OP seems to be aware of the university policy, I would gather that he is trying to determine whether or not the policy itself has a legal basis, and thus enforceable. Sorry but I can't help, but I think his question is a legitimate one.

And I answered him. YES they can have a policy that is enforceable on students and staff. It has no effect on others, so they can carry as allowed by state law.

Evil Creamsicle · Apr 10, 2015

Venator said:
No person shall possess on University property any firearms or other dangerous weapons with the exception of police officers, transfer agents licensed to carry weapons and persons using any such weapons for class instruction when authorized by the dean of the appropriate college.
Any student, faculty member or other university employee violating this rule shall be subject to suspension or dismissal. Any person violating this rule will be subject to criminal prosecution.

Preemption says that Local ordinances cannot be more restrictive than state law...

However, the Community College Act of 1966 is a STATE law, and it states the following:

Community College Act of 1966 said:
Community college as corporate entity.
Sec. 103.
(1)
A community college district is a body corporate and may sue and be sued, and may take,
condemn, use, hold, sell, lease, and convey real property without restriction as to location and personal
property including property received by gift, devise, or bequest, as the interest of the community college
district may require. A community college district is presumed to have been legally organized if it has
exercised the franchises and privileges of a community college district for a period of at least 2 years; and
such a community college district and its trustees are entitled to all rights, privileges, and immunities, and are
subject to all duties and liabilities conferred upon community college districts by law.
(2)
In addition to the powers expressly stated in this act, a community college district and its board of
trustees may exercise a power implied by or incident to any of its powers expressly stated in this act and,
except as otherwise provided by law, may exercise a power incidental or appropriate to the performance of
any function related to operation of the community college district in the interests of educational and other
programs and services offered by the community college district.

...I don't think there's legal precedent for this, but its enough to make me uncomfortable around colleges. I supposed they'd have to argue that it was related to the interests of 'educational or other programs'...

DeSchaine · Apr 11, 2015

See, I read that very thing a while back, and to me it makes it sound very similar in end result to the incorporation of towns and cities, and thusly just another local unit of government and thereby preempted from enforcing such a policy.

And nowhere in Article 8, sub sec 5 OR 6 does it say that universities and other institutions of higher learning get to make their own laws beyond that of the State.

Venator · Apr 11, 2015

Evil Creamsicle said:
Preemption says that Local ordinances cannot be more restrictive than state law...

However, the Community College Act of 1966 is a STATE law, and it states the following:

...I don't think there's legal precedent for this, but its enough to make me uncomfortable around colleges. I supposed they'd have to argue that it was related to the interests of 'educational or other programs'...

Any person violating this rule will be subject to criminal prosecution.
This I think is standard language in policies, etc. But if a student or staff member was found to have a weapon in a dorm or classroom, then a charge could be made and that would be under state law.

DanM · Apr 11, 2015

Evil Creamsicle said:
...I don't think there's legal precedent for this, but its enough to make me uncomfortable around colleges. I supposed they'd have to argue that it was related to the interests of 'educational or other programs'...

But in addition, they would also have to argue that rule or regulation gets around that part "except as otherwise provided by law".

It can rightfully be argued that firearms possession is very well "provided by law" within the MCL.

apjonas · Apr 26, 2015

And you though it was GM, Ford and Chrysler

DeSchaine said:
Ok, so I've done the reading and searching and honestly, I'm as fracking confused as ever. I know that, supposedly, MSU, Wayne State and U of M are somehow exempt from MI gun laws (STILL dont get how that works). But nothing is mentioned about Western Michigan University and yet they have this policy. I've got a few questions about it.

1. Can this policy really be legally enforced?

2. Does it apply to the Asylum Lake preserve area?

3. If it can't be enforced legally, and DOES apply to the preserve area, do I need my CPL to carry there when I take my dog out there?

Colleges and Universities are not local units of government. In addition, the named universities (The Big Three) are constitutional corporations and have powers far beyond those of mortal colleges. While the exact relationship between the Big Three and the state government varies depending upon the subject matter and other factors, it is not correct to say that they are exempt from state firearms law. But then there is no state law that says you have the right to carry anywhere you wish. Is there?

WMU- yea or nea?

DeSchaine

Regular Member

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter

OC4me

Regular Member

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter

Evil Creamsicle

Regular Member

DeSchaine

Regular Member

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter

DanM

Regular Member

apjonas

Regular Member