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Thread: Wild West predictions way off target, MJS columnist blogger on 2011 Act 35

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    Wild West predictions way off target, MJS columnist blogger on 2011 Act 35

    Concealed carry predictions way off target, Christian Schneider is a Journal Sentinel columnist and blogger.
    The question is, how wrong do these people have to be before we stop believing them?
    http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion...298642531.html

    Lt Dan Matthews 2 For once I agree Schneider. I was a Cop for 25 years and retired. I now have a CCW permit, which I great. I do think the background requirement are too easy and the training requirement are way to short. In Law Enforcement training, we initially trained for 40 hrs in firearms out of 400hrs and then spend at least 8 hrs every year in further firearms training . I think a tragedy will happen eventually A bystander or wrong person will be shot due to poor training and no practice.

    Innocent bystanders *have* been shot due to poor training and no practice, by The Only Ones (homage to Lee Paige ex-DEA).

    Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and guns and The Truth. God Bless US Bitter Clingers.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Now there is a new perspective - don't know why it hasn't been considered before
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    and the training requirement are way to short.
    Better run that by the CCW-instructor union. Pushing the time requirements will most likely result in fewer customers meaning they will be put out of business.

    Bota bene (that's Latin for "pay attention") - there are firearms instructors/trainers who also offer the classroom/range curriculum folks need in order to get their state permission slip, and then there are CCW-instructors who do nothing else. The above was directed towards the latter.

    As for the "extensive" training the cops must go through - how much of those five days is pure lecture and learning the firearms laws they will be enforcing? And 8 hours a year demonstrating the finely-honed skills they posses? That also includes sitting through lectures to remind them from which end the pointy things come out and that when the stage calls for the counting of three it will not do to count only to two or to count to four. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As for the "extensive" training the cops must go through - how much of those five days is pure lecture and learning the firearms laws they will be enforcing? And 8 hours a year demonstrating the finely-honed skills they posses? That also includes sitting through lectures to remind them from which end the pointy things come out and that when the stage calls for the counting of three it will not do to count only to two or to count to four. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk

    You're wrong on this. In Wisconsin new standards have been mandated and every agency has to follow them. Agencies can have additional training, but must also use the state mandated program. It's tougher than previous training going back to 75 feet with 100% shot placement on the isolated target area required to pass. And it applies to retired officers carrying with a certification card as well. About 90% of the training is hands on on the range for both the initial training and the re-cert.

    As far as non-leos go: no training is required to keep a firearm in the home for defense. No training is required to open carry in public w/o a CCL license. So why does a person need training to conceal in public? What changes?

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    You're wrong on this. In Wisconsin new standards have been mandated and every agency has to follow them. Agencies can have additional training, but must also use the state mandated program. It's tougher than previous training going back to 75 feet with 100% shot placement on the isolated target area required to pass. And it applies to retired officers carrying with a certification card as well. About 90% of the training is hands on on the range for both the initial training and the re-cert.

    As far as non-leos go: no training is required to keep a firearm in the home for defense. No training is required to open carry in public w/o a CCL license. So why does a person need training to conceal in public? What changes?
    I didn't know rights had to be earned...
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    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I didn't know rights had to be earned...
    Who said anything about that? My post was about the stupidity of requiring training for one instance when it's been proven to be unnecessary in other instances. The powers that be just are ignorant.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Who said anything about that? My post was about the stupidity of requiring training for one instance when it's been proven to be unnecessary in other instances. The powers that be just are ignorant.
    Sorry, read your post a little to quickly. But I would love for someone who wants mandated training to explain how rights are earned.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Mando cop training is likely more about liability than better/safer employment. Being issued a state owned gat brings along state mandated conditions of employment. Ya don't like the training? There's the door. Can't pass the test, there's the door. Is having a gat issued to you a 2A thing?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Those who want training for a right really don't believe in rights.


    Almost to a person they believe that rights are given by the government so they can be restricted by the government.


    They for what ever reason good, bad or other wise don't want to or for evil purposes, do not believe in inalienable rights.


    For those of us that know that are rights are not given by the government, so they should not be restricted by the government.

    So what does all this mean? We are in a fight to retain are freedoms against those want to destroy them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Mando cop training is likely more about liability than better/safer employment. Being issued a state owned gat brings along state mandated conditions of employment. Ya don't like the training? There's the door. Can't pass the test, there's the door. Is having a gat issued to you a 2A thing?
    Yes for upper management it is all about protecting the employer from liability.

    Management in LEO agency's spend a large amount of time and effort making sure their behinds are covered.

    If one of the troops screw up.

    For those lower on the scale there is an effort to and desire to make the line officers better employees.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 04-08-2015 at 08:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As for the "extensive" training the cops must go through - how much of those five days is pure lecture and learning the firearms laws they will be enforcing? And 8 hours a year demonstrating the finely-honed skills they posses? That also includes sitting through lectures to remind them from which end the pointy things come out .
    A great deal of my thirty five years in the Military was an assignment in the "Three Shop" (training). I trained many, many reservist and NG Troops over the years. Males almost always let testosterone get in the way of their marksmanship. About half the LEOs I trained knew so much about marksmanship they felt superior to the "mundanes" just because they carried daily.
    Most of us spend a great deal of time at range fire to maintain skills. Just carrying a weapon does not make you a better operator, you actually have to (properly) train with it.


    Not meant to be a "LEO bash" just an observation.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Yes for upper management it is all about protecting the employer from liability.

    Management in LEO agency's spend a large amount of time and effort making sure their behinds are covered.

    If one of the troops screw up.

    For those lower on the scale there is an effort to and desire to make the line officers better employees.
    doesn't appear to have worked to mitigate liability in the SC LE event that occurred over the weekend...foooo emptied his service pistol and had shots all over the victims back...

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/08/us/sou...d-with-murder/

    not sure where the officer was 'trained' to plant evidence or lie on the 'official' report of the incident on the way it went down either...

    the 'liability' force is going to be strong in this case...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 04-08-2015 at 12:20 PM.
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