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Thread: Wal-Mart owners push retailer to stop selling rifles. Church w/ 3500 shares objects.

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    Wal-Mart owners push retailer to stop selling rifles. Church w/ 3500 shares objects.

    Wal-Mart franchisees pushing retailer to cease selling rifles. Church that owns 3,500 stores objected

    Wal-Mart, the nation’s largest gun retailer, is awaiting a verdict Wednesday to see whether it can continue to sell modern sporting rifles if enough investors think it’s a business the company shouldn’t be in.

    Arguing that Wal-Mart’s willingness to sell high-capacity magazine rifles contradicts its promise to uphold community and family values, Trinity Wall Street Church in New York won its case in November, when the district court ruled shareholders could propose and vote on a resolution that would force Wal-Mart’s board of directors to review its gun sales policy.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-to-cease-sel/

    Dance with the devil that is Wal-Mart but the piper will be paid.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Being a stockholder is NOT the same as owning the store.

    "I feel" vs "This is the law".

    Ms. Stout explained that Trinity’s proposal does not give investors the ability to tell the company board what to do, it simply asks them to identify whether their sales policy is consistent with company values.

    That request might seem small, but critics say if the appeals court rules in favor of Trinity, it could set up a precedent that derails the way major corporations operate.

    Bernard Sharfman, an adjunct professor at George Mason University School of Business, said that investors do not have the authority or the knowledge to make decisions that govern the corporation.

    “That kind of decision needs to be made by the board of directors. What is [in] the best interests of the corporation — that authority, by corporate law, is embedded by the board of directors. That’s why you have a board of directors: to make those decisions,” Mr. Sharfman said.
    There are millions of WalMart shareholders. If only 1% of them decided to tell the Board of Directors what to do/how to do it the confusion would be rampant. But more importantly - the Board of Directors has the legal and fiduciary responsibility to operate the company in a way that creates dividends payable to the shareholders The question can be put to the totality of shareholders if they are willing to risk getting less/no dividends if the Board of Directors chooses to follow any particular course of action but that is only advisory on the Board of Directors.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Did someone yell "WOLF?"
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    Recent 2013 SEC proxy statement.

    Walmart is a family-owned business, as the company is controlled by the Walton family, who own over 50 percent of Walmart through their holding company, Walton Enterprises.

    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...4a.htm#_N1576F

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walmar...and_governance
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    Regular Member Contrarian's Avatar
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    Question Wal-Mart

    With such a tidal wave of carnage done by rifles every year, I can understand their concern.

    Per the FBI stats for 2011:
    A grand total of 323 murders were found to have been committed by rifles.

    -http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

    Just thinking - are there more effective ways to spend your time ... unintentional exposure to carbon monoxide causes an average of 430 deaths a year and just might be preventable through education.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrarian View Post
    With such a tidal wave of carnage done by rifles every year, I can understand their concern.

    Per the FBI stats for 2011:
    A grand total of 323 murders were found to have been committed by rifles.

    -http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

    Just thinking - are there more effective ways to spend your time ... unintentional exposure to carbon monoxide causes an average of 430 deaths a year and just might be preventable through education.
    But none of the other things mentioned has any political impact on this country. Gun control is not about saving lives or reducing crime it is about disarming the American people. So the progressive/communist agenda can be pushed onto them.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    it cloned itself...grrrrrrrr
    sorry
    Last edited by solus; 04-08-2015 at 11:18 AM.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    just a nit for clarity...

    http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Communism.html

    the term is being misused throughout, but still refers to an economic ideology enforced by terror based tyrannical government.

    just a nit...

    ipse

    addendum: bats (blunt objects) is higher.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Walmart has about 3.2 Billion outstanding shares. Does a group with a measly 3500 shares believe they have any say so?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzi01 View Post
    Walmart has about 3.2 Billion outstanding shares. Does a group with a measly 3500 shares believe they have any say so?
    And the Walton family owns over 51% !!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    UPDATE!! Wal-Mart wins gun-sales case against investors who want to bar such purchase

    An appeals court ruled Tuesday that Wal-Mart investors don’t have a right to try to stop the company from selling rifles or any other product those shareholders may think is socially destructive. The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled for the Arkansas-based retailer, reversing a district court ruling in November that would have let the company’s investors influence the store’s policy on high-capacity sporting-rifle sales.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...investors-who/
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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    An appeals court ruled Tuesday that Wal-Mart investors don’t have a right to try to stop the company from selling rifles or any other product those shareholders may think is socially destructive.
    Good. Absolutely sounds reasonable to me. If any minority share holder (and good luck setting that bar) can interfere with the management of any company, public or private, in such a manner it would be the ruination of effective management and drive even more business HQs overseas.

    Upon reading the OP a few days ago my first mental reaction was "self-important NYC church - probably Episcopalian" and then I felt a bit bad for thinking that. But then curiosity/cat/etc so I looked it up and now I'm not sure if I feel better or worse knowing my immediate reaction was correct.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzi01 View Post
    Walmart has about 3.2 Billion outstanding shares. Does a group with a measly 3500 shares believe they have any say so?
    They own 3500 franchises, not shares, from what I read.

    But I am not defending them. If they don't like the way the majority-owning Waltons run Wal-Mart, they can give up their franchises and run their own damn department stores in competition.
    Last edited by MAC702; 04-15-2015 at 10:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    They own 3500 franchises, not shares, from what I read.

    But I am not defending them. If they don't like the way the majority-owning Waltons run Wal-Mart, they can give up their franchises and run their own damn department stores in competition.
    Wal-mart is not a franchise organization.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBrinson View Post
    Wal-mart is not a franchise organization.
    I don't know you and still consider you to be a more reliable source than the AP, so correction noted; thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by AP
    Wal-Mart is awaiting a court decision after one of its major shareholders, a church that owns 3,500 franchises around the country, filed to have high-capacity gun magazines removed from the stores. (Associated Press)

    Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz3XRZPzfia
    Emphasis mine.

    Sure enough, later in the same article, complete with wrong verb plurality:
    ...Trinity Wall Street church, which hold (sic) 3,500 shares in the company...
    Their editing staff is more piss-poor than usual.
    Last edited by MAC702; 04-16-2015 at 12:40 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    The question can be put to the totality of shareholders if they are willing to risk getting less/no dividends if the Board of Directors chooses to follow any particular course of action but that is only advisory on the Board of Directors.
    The family may own 51%, but they'll also be the ones who'll take a massive, multi-billion dollar hit on the nose if they snub their noses at their shareholders who in response choose to dump their stock.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    The family may own 51%, but they'll also be the ones who'll take a massive, multi-billion dollar hit on the nose if they snub their noses at their shareholders who in response choose to dump their stock.
    I would imagine that "the family" looks at the cost of doing business regularly. Opinions, and pushback are part of that cost. There seems to always be a risk in a free market economy for opinions of a few to overwhelm and force change to a bigger entity. Pros and cons of any decision they make will come to light by the media and general public daily. If you want to be in business these days, you have to accept that your decision in not the only one that matters. Compromise is a requirement to succeed in growth. Glad I'm not part of the decision making team for any large company. I live with enough stress daily as it is.

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    LOL Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable opponent as ignorance.

    See H. G. Rickover on 'Responsibility.'
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    The family may own 51%, but they'll also be the ones who'll take a massive, multi-billion dollar hit on the nose if they snub their noses at their shareholders who in response choose to dump their stock.
    Actually, they would relish the opportunity to buy back shares at less value, and not a single one of them will go hungry in the process.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Waltons earn billions a year in WM dividends.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Actually, they would relish the opportunity to buy back shares at less value, and not a single one of them will go hungry in the process.
    "Relish" isn't the right word. It's an act of mitigation, at best. Stock is issued to raise capital for funding operations. Lower stock prices make it much more difficult to raise capital or float debt.

    Firms awash in profits and cash have no problem buying back stock. Indeed, some Fortune 500 companies don't have common stock.

    Walmart isn't awash in profits right now. They've laid off workers and closed stores and warehouses.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Liquidation of poor assets don't add to the bottom line and investor dividends? I'll inform my FA!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    They own 3500 franchises, not shares, from what I read.

    But I am not defending them. If they don't like the way the majority-owning Waltons run Wal-Mart, they can give up their franchises and run their own damn department stores in competition.

    This article say Trinity Church owns about $280000 in shares. Walmart shares are about $80 a share right now. That is about 3500 shares.

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/econom...m-to-sell-guns

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzi01 View Post
    This article say Trinity Church owns about $280000 in shares. Walmart shares are about $80 a share right now. That is about 3500 shares.

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/econom...m-to-sell-guns
    Still that is small potatoes - it is the tail trying to wag the dog........ a very small tail on a very BIG dog at that.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Still that is small potatoes - it is the tail trying to wag the dog........ a very small tail on a very BIG dog at that.
    Episcopalian church in NYC ... a very self-important tail on a very arrogant dog.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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