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Thread: I've seen all kinds of gun transactions...but not this

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I've seen all kinds of gun transactions...but not this

    Got a fellow whose profile on facebook says he lives in mexico, claims to be an FFL but wants to do FTF transactions on a half dozen guns when he Flys in tomorrow to visit family...he's on facebook. ..
    Interesting.
    Last edited by peter nap; 04-11-2015 at 05:27 PM.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    hey peter, they have to get the fbi's fast and furious operation's firearms back into the US somehow for goodness sakes!!

    ipse
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    hey peter, they have to get the fbi's fast and furious operation's firearms back into the US somehow for goodness sakes!!
    ipse
    The sad part is no one objects.

    The guy called the state police and they haven't a clue if it's legal or not.
    Last edited by peter nap; 04-11-2015 at 05:28 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Got a fellow whose profile on facebook says he lives in mexico, claims to be an FFL but wants to do FTF transactions on a half dozen guns when he Flys in tomorrow to visit family...he's on Glocks and Guns Virginia Gun Trader on facebook. ..
    Interesting.
    Interesting point - Can one be an FFL and reside outside the USA? I would not think so, but my google is fuing at the moment.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Interesting point - Can one be an FFL and reside outside the USA? I would not think so, but my google is fuing at the moment.
    Don't know Grape. Generally that's a good bunch on that page, the administrators are great. I guess I need to mind my own business.

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Got a fellow whose profile on facebook says he lives in mexico, claims to be an FFL but wants to do FTF transactions on a half dozen guns when he Flys in tomorrow to visit family...he's on facebook. ..
    Interesting.
    Uhmm so I have questions... [My apologies to Ed for violating his grammar rules once again]

    1. Where are the guns currently located? Mexico has strict gun laws, I doubt he is flying into the USA with them.

    2. Are any of these firearms handguns? Can an out of state FFL sell a handgun to you in your state?

    3. FFL huh? So there will be a form 4473 involved in this FTF transfer then??

    4. Will your FB friend show you his ATF/FBI badge before the deal goes down, or only after you are in cuffs?
    Last edited by IanB; 04-11-2015 at 09:27 PM.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    grape, yes you could be an FFL for state xyz where you maintain your residence but live in abc country where you might have a foreign martial partner who maintains a residence there, similar to the snow birds.

    ianB your number 2: no a FFL, whose license is in abc state can not travel to state xyz and sell and deliver to that state's citizen a firearms unless they have a license in state xyz. now if the ffl is authorized internet sales, they may sell a firearm over al gore's invention from state abc to citizen in zyz with delivery to the citizen via ffl in state zyz. at which time all appropriate pwk would be completed.

    ianb, your scenario in four could hold more truth than you realize.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 04-11-2015 at 10:00 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanB View Post
    Uhmm so I have questions... [My apologies to Ed for violating his grammar rules once again]

    1. Where are the guns currently located? Mexico has strict gun laws, I doubt he is flying into the USA with them.

    2. Are any of these firearms handguns? Can an out of state FFL sell a handgun to you in your state?

    3. FFL huh? So there will be a form 4473 involved in this FTF transfer then??

    4. Will your FB friend show you his ATF/FBI badge before the deal goes down, or only after you are in cuffs?
    He kept adding guns...most handguns, one a AR and a mini 14.
    He's gonna have to use those cuffs on some other poor sucker. I don't want to be in the same county with him. I wonder if this is part of Obama s immigration package.

    He's asking a fortune for them so my guess is his post is directed at prohibited persons. ..but it takes some gonads and some serious stoopid to post something like that on facebook.
    Last edited by peter nap; 04-12-2015 at 12:11 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    He kept adding guns...most handguns, one a AR and a mini 14.
    He's gonna have to use those cuffs on some other poor sucker. I don't want to be in the same county with him. I wonder if this is part of Obama s immigration package.

    He's asking a fortune for them so my guess is his post is directed at prohibited persons. ..but it takes some gonads and some serious stoopid to post something like that on facebook.
    Maybe an anti hoping to catch a big fish then make a major media event out of it.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Let's see... if we sell lots of guns to some spook in Mexico posing as an FFL, he could trade 'em for drugs down there, and get them into the U.S. via one of the cooperative local LEO or U.S. Attorney's interest in making sure the right shipments get through. When we sell the drugs in the U.S., we can take the money and fund "covert operations" with it. That way, Congress and Gummint officials can pretend they don't know anything about it, the money won't appear on anyone's budget, and it only hurts people we don't like, anyway. Do you suppose that it's a coincidence that, during Vietnam, the drug of choice in the U.S. was heroin, but when we were engaged in Central America, it was cocaine, but now that we're back in Asia, it's heroin again? Read the book, "The Firm", and consider, what if this were just a fictionalized account of the activities of a government agency that calls itself, "the firm", and what if the movie, "Air America" had been written about the same agency and its method of funding itself? What if the people involved don't really like it that they have to keep everything secret and have laid hints all over the place because they're really so pleased with themselves and how clever they are that they want to brag about it? By the way, as the thrift industry was being destroyed with fake loans all over the country all at once, e.g., "whitewater", how did it happen that three small hole-in-the-wall Southern banks suddenly became big business? And what about that boutique law firm that Hillary Clinton worked at; what was she really doing while employed there? Why was Janet Reno rewarded with the attorney-general job after having been U.S. Atty in Miami? What was the real nature of the relationship between Bill Clinton and Oliver North?

    Just askin'.... but that "ffl" in Mexico does sound suspicious, don't he?
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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Well I did hear that the Mexican military had an FFL and was a huge importer. Maybe he's the Defense Minister or a Generalissimo looking to rotate inventory.
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Let's see... if we sell lots of guns to some spook in Mexico posing as an FFL, he could trade 'em for drugs down there, and get them into the U.S. via one of the cooperative local LEO or U.S. Attorney's interest in making sure the right shipments get through. When we sell the drugs in the U.S., we can take the money and fund "covert operations" with it. That way, Congress and Gummint officials can pretend they don't know anything about it, the money won't appear on anyone's budget, and it only hurts people we don't like, anyway. Do you suppose that it's a coincidence that, during Vietnam, the drug of choice in the U.S. was heroin, but when we were engaged in Central America, it was cocaine, but now that we're back in Asia, it's heroin again? Read the book, "The Firm", and consider, what if this were just a fictionalized account of the activities of a government agency that calls itself, "the firm", and what if the movie, "Air America" had been written about the same agency and its method of funding itself? What if the people involved don't really like it that they have to keep everything secret and have laid hints all over the place because they're really so pleased with themselves and how clever they are that they want to brag about it? By the way, as the thrift industry was being destroyed with fake loans all over the country all at once, e.g., "whitewater", how did it happen that three small hole-in-the-wall Southern banks suddenly became big business? And what about that boutique law firm that Hillary Clinton worked at; what was she really doing while employed there? Why was Janet Reno rewarded with the attorney-general job after having been U.S. Atty in Miami? What was the real nature of the relationship between Bill Clinton and Oliver North?

    Just askin'.... but that "ffl" in Mexico does sound suspicious, don't he?
    Just watched the movie "kill the messenger".
    Reminds me of the saying
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Let's see... if we sell lots of guns to some spook in Mexico posing as an FFL, he could trade 'em for drugs down there, and get them into the U.S. via one of the cooperative local LEO or U.S. Attorney's interest in making sure the right shipments get through. When we sell the drugs in the U.S., we can take the money and fund "covert operations" with it. That way, Congress and Gummint officials can pretend they don't know anything about it, the money won't appear on anyone's budget, and it only hurts people we don't like, anyway. Do you suppose that it's a coincidence that, during Vietnam, the drug of choice in the U.S. was heroin, but when we were engaged in Central America, it was cocaine, but now that we're back in Asia, it's heroin again? Read the book, "The Firm", and consider, what if this were just a fictionalized account of the activities of a government agency that calls itself, "the firm", and what if the movie, "Air America" had been written about the same agency and its method of funding itself? What if the people involved don't really like it that they have to keep everything secret and have laid hints all over the place because they're really so pleased with themselves and how clever they are that they want to brag about it? By the way, as the thrift industry was being destroyed with fake loans all over the country all at once, e.g., "whitewater", how did it happen that three small hole-in-the-wall Southern banks suddenly became big business? And what about that boutique law firm that Hillary Clinton worked at; what was she really doing while employed there? Why was Janet Reno rewarded with the attorney-general job after having been U.S. Atty in Miami? What was the real nature of the relationship between Bill Clinton and Oliver North?

    Just askin'.... but that "ffl" in Mexico does sound suspicious, don't he?
    Oh, my. Wow, wow, wow. Didn't think of that. Thanks, User!


    Along the lines of your comments about drugs, I can pass along the observations and suspicions of a guy who lived through a certain tumultuous cultural period. This involves LSD. I had a co-worker who was a college student in the mid or late 1960's. He observed that LSD showed up on a bunch of college campuses over the country across one single spring and summer. A few years later he found out about the thought-control experiments involving LSD of a certain secretive fedgov agency.* He found it, shall we say, more than curious, that a drug that has to be manufactured, suddenly started showing up almost all at once in the very places where opposition to the Vietnam war was strongest.


    *Google it. Its almost common knowledge now; I say almost because the furor died down years ago--we hear little about it anymore.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh, my. Wow, wow, wow. Didn't think of that. Thanks, User!


    Along the lines of your comments about drugs, I can pass along the observations and suspicions of a guy who lived through a certain tumultuous cultural period. This involves LSD. I had a co-worker who was a college student in the mid or late 1960's. He observed that LSD showed up on a bunch of college campuses over the country across one single spring and summer. A few years later he found out about the thought-control experiments involving LSD of a certain secretive fedgov agency.* He found it, shall we say, more than curious, that a drug that has to be manufactured, suddenly started showing up almost all at once in the very places where opposition to the Vietnam war was strongest.


    *Google it. Its almost common knowledge now; I say almost because the furor died down years ago--we hear little about it anymore.
    Tmothy Leary - "Turn on, tune in, drop out" & "Think for yourself and question authority"

    "Leary started to use LSD in the early 1960s. After a scandal when the university discovered students were also using his supply, Leary was discharged in 1963. Becoming an advocate for the use of psychedelic drugs, Leary established the International Foundation for Internal Freedom along with Alpert. Leary later converted to Hinduism after the two established IFIF organizational headquarters in Millbrook, New York, with a rich funder's support."
    http://www.biography.com/people/timothy-leary-37330

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Well that proposed transaction doesn't sound suspicious at all. Nope not one bit.

    It's not paranoia if they are really out to get you...
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Somebody else called this clown on it and here's his reply.

    R Artemio Lucio Cisneros

    I can NOT purchase a handgun from a private owner in many states... However Residents of this state CAN purchase from an out of state resident.

    Like**More**25 minutes ago

    JR Artemio Lucio Cisneros

    Also what you are quoting has much to do with FFL dealer rules, regs and laws.... However these are ALL private transactions...*Have absolutely nothing to do with an FFL Dealer... I only state that I am an FFL dealer to establish simple credibility as to my private collections history... All of these firearms were purchased for my personal collection from my own store...

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    This is better than watching ghost adventures.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Somebody else called this clown on it and here's his reply.

    R Artemio Lucio Cisneros

    I can NOT purchase a handgun from a private owner in many states... However Residents of this state CAN purchase from an out of state resident.

    Like**More**25 minutes ago

    JR Artemio Lucio Cisneros

    Also what you are quoting has much to do with FFL dealer rules, regs and laws.... However these are ALL private transactions...*Have absolutely nothing to do with an FFL Dealer... I only state that I am an FFL dealer to establish simple credibility as to my private collections history... All of these firearms were purchased for my personal collection from my own store...
    Shouldn't be too hard to determine/verify whether an individual with that name is in fact a FFL and where. Someone could just out right ask him for confirmable specifics.

    Personally, I still would not want to do business with him. He is too slick, too evasive. He might not even be the person he claims to be.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Shouldn't be too hard to determine/verify whether an individual with that name is in fact a FFL and where. Someone could just out right ask him for confirmable specifics.

    Personally, I still would not want to do business with him. He is too slick, too evasive. He might not even be the person he claims to be.
    Now he's saying he's from Utah.....

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I'm listening to my gut.........and it is rumbling.

    Presuming that all is a bad as it appears, I'd like to see him fly in with great expectations and then left standing alone at the alter.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 04-13-2015 at 04:05 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Shouldn't be too hard to determine/verify whether an individual with that name is in fact a FFL and where. Someone could just out right ask him for confirmable specifics.

    Personally, I still would not want to do business with him. He is too slick, too evasive. He might not even be the person he claims to be.
    if the individual, quote: FFL eZ Check does not validate Type 03 (Collectors of Curios and Relics) and Type 06 (Manufacturer of Ammunition) licenses. All attempts to check the validity of Type 03 and Type 06 licenses will result in an error message, even though the licenses may be valid. An FFL should not use this error message as reason to deny dealing with a Type 03 licensee. unquote. https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

    additionally, with some exceptions in certain states, firearm sales amongst private citizens does not necessitate a FFL or have any oversight.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    if the individual, quote: FFL eZ Check does not validate Type 03 (Collectors of Curios and Relics) and Type 06 (Manufacturer of Ammunition) licenses. All attempts to check the validity of Type 03 and Type 06 licenses will result in an error message, even though the licenses may be valid. An FFL should not use this error message as reason to deny dealing with a Type 03 licensee. unquote. https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

    additionally, with some exceptions in certain states, firearm sales amongst private citizens does not necessitate a FFL or have any oversight.

    ipse
    Well..... I checked with ATF and what the guy is doing is illegal as can be.
    I withdrew from the page because I don't want to be associated with it if the boom gets lowered.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    if the individual, quote: FFL eZ Check does not validate Type 03 (Collectors of Curios and Relics) and Type 06 (Manufacturer of Ammunition) licenses. All attempts to check the validity of Type 03 and Type 06 licenses will result in an error message, even though the licenses may be valid. An FFL should not use this error message as reason to deny dealing with a Type 03 licensee. unquote. https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

    additionally, with some exceptions in certain states, firearm sales amongst private citizens does not necessitate a FFL or have any oversight.

    ipse
    Quite aware that transactions between individuals living in the same state need not go through an FFL.
    https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms...censed-persons

    This person is too inconsistent with his story - would want no part of him or his business.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Hope no innocents who don't know any better get caught up in this apparent mess.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  25. #25
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    The FFL ez-Check works for dealers (Type 01 FFLs).

    Dealers can sell to non-licensees only at their place of business, or at a gun show in the state where their business is located; away from either location, they're just John Q.

    This guy says he's doing a non-FFL transaction from his private collection, which is perfectly legal... IF:

    ...if the transfer is between residents of the same state (no interstate transfers are allowed without an FFL involved, except for firearms bequeathed in a will); OR:

    ...if the transfer is made through an FFL in the receiver's state of residence.



    This is Gun Law 101.

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