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Thread: Can I carry my gun in a IWB holster and still be considered open carry?

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    Can I carry my gun in a IWB holster and still be considered open carry?

    So about a month ago I posted my first experience open carrying, and I've been doing it ever since (OC'ed In a bank the other day, and so far that's my greatest "achievement"). Here's the issue: I'm 20, so I can't get my CCW. I originally got my gun for the apartment to protect my Fiancée and I. I always knew I could open carry but had no interest in doing so (just thought it was weird), but one day I came to my senses and realized how idiotic it was to abandon my right to protect myself on my porch. I now carry daily, but my holster is completely exposed and sometimes it is just a slight hassle.

    If I get a IWB holster and lift my shirt up enough to expose the grip and back of the slide, is that still open carry? To me it's obviously a gun through "ordinary observation", but then again I put the gun there. I looked at the general forum for an answer but thought it better to ask people from my state.

    Bonus question: Strong side draw or cross draw? Again I looked at the thread in the general forum, but it got confusing for me

    Thanks guys, I don't post much but I do a lot of reading and really enjoy the website.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what you mean by lifting up your shirt. You aren't going to do it with a fully tucked in shirt? It's legal, but sounds sloppy, and some may take it as a purposeful showing of what you normally carry concealed, not that that is illegal in itself, but that's what some might be thinking.

    If it's discernible by ordinary observation, it's not concealed. This includes IWB holsters, normally.

    But the more you make it look like a poorly concealed gun, the more frequently you will get into an official conversation about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by lifting up your shirt. You aren't going to do it with a fully tucked in shirt? It's legal, but sounds sloppy, and some may take it as a purposeful showing of what you normally carry concealed, not that that is illegal in itself, but that's what some might be thinking.

    If it's discernible by ordinary observation, it's not concealed. This includes IWB holsters, normally.

    But the more you make it look like a poorly concealed gun, the more frequently you will get into an official conversation about it.


    Valid points. I'm just thinking it would give me more options to carry depending on the situation. And with a shirt tucked its nice to know that IWB is probably still open carry.

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    I carry like that occasionally. Usually with my CC gun (Glock 42) when I don't have an undershirt and don't want the stippling rubbing on my skin. Gets kinda uncomfortable. I haven't had any problems, but I understand what you're getting at. The idea is not to look sloppy. Sloppy is for criminals.

    Anybody know where the term "Virgina tuck" came from?
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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    I carry like that occasionally. Usually with my CC gun (Glock 42) when I don't have an undershirt and don't want the stippling rubbing on my skin. Gets kinda uncomfortable. I haven't had any problems, but I understand what you're getting at. The idea is not to look sloppy. Sloppy is for criminals.

    Anybody know where the term "Virgina tuck" came from?
    I do,,, even though im not from Virginia...
    In the commonwealth you can not drink in a restaurant, "they dont have bars", if you are carrying concealed...
    Sooo, if you wanted to drink,,, you would pull up your shirt or coat and "tuck" that behind your gun,
    so that you would be open carrying....

    Back on topic,,, you dont have a conceal permit, Soooo you would never! let your gun be covered!!!
    Sooo you would not ever be pulling your shirt up to expose your gun,,
    you would tuck your shirt behind the gun when you get dressed.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    ... you don't have a conceal permit, Soooo you would never! let your gun be covered!!!
    Sooo you would not ever be pulling your shirt up to expose your gun,,
    you would tuck your shirt behind the gun when you get dressed.
    Exactly. Which is why I purposely didn't bring up the useful validity of the "Virginia Tuck" for someone who can't carry concealed anyway.
    Last edited by MAC702; 04-12-2015 at 03:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    Anybody know where the term "Virgina tuck" came from?
    Oh it has a name! Thank you for curing my ignorance Though the context it comes from is outside my legal bounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Back on topic,,, you dont have a conceal permit, Soooo you would never! let your gun be covered!!!
    Sooo you would not ever be pulling your shirt up to expose your gun,,
    you would tuck your shirt behind the gun when you get dressed.
    Alright Mr. Technical let my clarify: this question is intended for when I get dressed in the morning.
    Last edited by Jagorilla; 04-12-2015 at 03:30 PM.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagorilla View Post

    If I get a IWB holster and lift my shirt up enough to expose the grip and back of the slide, is that still open carry?

    Bonus question: Strong side draw or cross draw? .
    Quote Originally Posted by Jagorilla View Post
    Oh it has a name! Thank you for curing my ignorance Though the context it comes from is outside my legal bounds.



    Alright Mr. Technical let my clarify: this question is intended for when I get dressed in the morning.

    OK,,, yes,, the phrase in bold sounded like you might be walking around holding your
    shirt in a raised position to keep your gun exposed,,,,, silly me!

    As to the draw style,,, I have carried cross draw forever,, and I advocate it to everyone!!
    I can draw when sitting in an easy chair, in my car buckled in, I can draw with either hand!
    The gun is forward of your waist and is easily guarded naturally by your arm and elbow!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    OK,,, yes,, the phrase in bold sounded like you might be walking around holding your
    shirt in a raised position to keep your gun exposed,,,,, silly me!

    As to the draw style,,, I have carried cross draw forever,, and I advocate it to everyone!!
    I can draw when sitting in an easy chair, in my car buckled in, I can draw with either hand!
    The gun is forward of your waist and is easily guarded naturally by your arm and elbow!
    Haha okay understandable.

    I've been considering cross draw because of my seatbelt buckle when I get in the car. It's a pain! The gun being more forward is very valid as well.
    Last edited by Jagorilla; 04-12-2015 at 04:33 PM.

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    I do,,, even though im not from Virginia...
    In the commonwealth you can not drink in a restaurant, "they dont have bars", if you are carrying concealed...
    Sooo, if you wanted to drink,,, you would pull up your shirt or coat and "tuck" that behind your gun,
    so that you would be open carrying....

    Back on topic,,, you dont have a conceal permit, Soooo you would never! let your gun be covered!!!
    Sooo you would not ever be pulling your shirt up to expose your gun,,
    you would tuck your shirt behind the gun when you get dressed.
    Thanks for the etymology lesson. It makes my inner nerd happy

    I've heard IWB OC called 'Virginia Tuck' a lot and that makes sense; but since it's technically a form of CC for reasons that are invalid in Nevada, it's a term best not used here.
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    I started out IWB open carry, I guess I thought it was less noticeable. I never had anyone question whether it was open or concealed. You see the same amount of firearm, just less holster. As I got more relaxed, at the same time all my pants seemed to have shrunk, I got an OWB pancake type holster. So, now I pretty much just OC OWB and be done with it. Conceal with a jacket when cold, or a blazer or vest when going to somewhere I don't want to OC. Church mostly, but some off school site events.

    From what I have seen Nevada and Wisconsin have very similar laws concerning OC. Today, concealed at church under vest. Open carry for brunch and then shopping at Walmart. Not one word about my firearm, but I did overhear the next table talking guns tho they never said anything to me. I suspect the sight of mine might have triggered the converation, but can't say for sure.

    At some point in time I think you will get past the self conscious aspect of OC. At first I thought everyone was staring at me. Even concealed I thought everyone knew I had a gun! In reality, people don't much pay attention to what is going on around them I have found. I'm a tucked in shirt guy, never a t shirt or sweat shirt. Change my way of dress or OC, I chose OC. Three years now and it has pretty much gotten to where I feel naked without it!

    I've been looking into cross draw just recently, but have not purchased that style holster yet. I think a convertible cross draw/strong side might work for me. I do a lot of driving.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    ...I've heard IWB OC called 'Virginia Tuck' a lot and that makes sense...
    Only when the shirt is untucked except for the portion that gets stuck behind the gun butt.

    I wouldn't do it, even if I lived in VA. I'd tuck my entire shirt in before heading to the bar. But that's me.
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    I spent some time early in to OC trying to find out how to classify IWB carry with the firearm exposed. Never really got any definitive answer from anyone. Basically I told myself that if you CAN see my firearm, that is open carry. If you DON'T see my firearm, how is it my fault you're not paying attention? Granted, I have now idea if this would stand any sort of legal assault, not have I had to find out. Yet. But, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

    What I did discover is that very few people, as in nobody, is paying attention to thier surroundings. Nose buried in the phone or some type of device. Heck, people aren't even paying attention when driving. I'm constantly looking at people's faces to see if they acknowledge that they noticed a firearm. Very, very few do, or else they are good at showing no emotion. Probably some of that. I've also noticed that people don't like eye contact, so the few that do notice look at me and find that they are making eye contact and usually look away quickly. I've been told I'm an intimidating guy, but really I'm just a big softy.

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Only when the shirt is untucked except for the portion that gets stuck behind the gun butt.

    I wouldn't do it, even if I lived in VA. I'd tuck my entire shirt in before heading to the bar. But that's me.
    I've been to the bar with you. I can't wait until I'm just as dashing and slim as you are and can tuck my shirt in.

    Seriously, the shirt issue is why I'll usually just CC when I'm in a polo.
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    If you have a tucked in polo, a recording device, no jacket, and an OWB holster, that's four easy rounds to use against the DA if someone tries to trump up an unlawful CC case. Take away any of those, and your magazine is less than full. Doesn't mean you can't defend yourself but it is definitely harder, so carry every round you can.
    Last edited by rickyray9; 04-13-2015 at 07:40 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    --snipped--
    Anybody know where the term "Virgina tuck" came from?
    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    I do,,, even though im not from Virginia...
    In the commonwealth you can not drink in a restaurant, "they dont have bars", if you are carrying concealed...
    Sooo, if you wanted to drink,,, you would pull up your shirt or coat and "tuck" that behind your gun,
    so that you would be open carrying....
    --snipped--
    The "Virginia Tuck" originated in VA back when we could not CC in establishments that sold adult beverages.

    That changed in 2010.

    We now can CC in such business, but not drink.
    http://www.nbc12.com/story/12713174/...st-in-virginia

    However, if one were OCing, it is legal to indulge - frequently discouraged, but legal as there is no statutory restriction when OCing. The Virginia Tuck is still utilized by some who might want a glass of wine with their meal, but normally CC.
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    I did NOT read all the other posts. That would just force bias into my reply.

    Suggestion:

    Go find the definition of Open Carry for Nevada.

    Be more clear on what you mean about your dress code.

    I suspect your phrase "...If I lift my shirt..." is confusing - that sounds momentary to showing someone you are open carrying. I don't think that will work. The definition of open carry will describe how much of the gun must be visible at all times (realizing if someone is standing on your opposite side they cannot see through you).

    Don't risk losing your gun rights by someone on this board. Go ask a Local LEO or state police.

    Cross draw or strong side, IWB or OWB is a personal preference. You may need to experience both to be sure of what you prefer.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wittmeba;2136774--snipped--

    Don't risk losing your gun rights by someone on this board. Go [B
    ask a Local LEO or state police[/B].
    With all due respect: Not a good idea.

    LEOs are not qualified to give legal advice and frequently get it wrong.

    Someone on these boards should be able to point you to the applicable statutes or court cases where you can read them for yourself.......or get the advice of an attorney.

    You can bet it'll look foolish to say in court that an officer told me it was alright.
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    Regular Member wittmeba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ...You can bet it'll look foolish to say in court that an officer told me it was alright.
    OK...I'll agree with some of your reply but I also believe "You can bet it'll look foolish to say in court that a guy on a gun forum told me it was alright".

    My point is clear...don't trust what someone on these forums tells you as gospel. It might be...however...
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wittmeba View Post
    OK...I'll agree with some of your reply but I also believe "You can bet it'll look foolish to say in court that a guy on a gun forum told me it was alright".

    My point is clear...don't trust what someone on these forums tells you as gospel. It might be...however...
    That may have been your intention, but you said, "Ask a LEO." (paraphrased) It was that to which I objected.

    Also did not in any way suggest/recommend that anyone take our word as gospel. Obviously quite to the contrary when I did indicate that, "Someone on these boards should be able to point you to the applicable statutes or court cases where you can read them for yourself.......or get the advice of an attorney.

    The opening paragraph of our Forum Rules admonishes that "any and all advice you glean from this forum should be independently verified."

    So yes I am curious. What part of my recommendation do you not agree is good and prudent?
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 04-14-2015 at 10:42 AM. Reason: added
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    Quote Originally Posted by wittmeba View Post
    I did NOT read all the other posts. That would just force bias into my reply.

    Suggestion:

    Go find the definition of Open Carry for Nevada.

    Be more clear on what you mean about your dress code.

    I suspect your phrase "...If I lift my shirt..." is confusing - that sounds momentary to showing someone you are open carrying. I don't think that will work. The definition of open carry will describe how much of the gun must be visible at all times (realizing if someone is standing on your opposite side they cannot see through you).

    Don't risk losing your gun rights by someone on this board. Go ask a Local LEO or state police.

    Cross draw or strong side, IWB or OWB is a personal preference. You may need to experience both to be sure of what you prefer.
    If you would have read the other posts your confusion would have been cleared up Though yes I worded my explanation awkwardly in my original post. The gun would be showing at all times.

    And I paraphrased the definition of open carry in Nevada with "ordinary observation", per attorney general opinion, Because there is no law allowing or barring the practice (so it's legal). The AG opinion is rather vague so I was asking for opinions. Wstar425 did a good job with that.
    Last edited by Jagorilla; 04-14-2015 at 09:24 PM. Reason: Grammar

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    It doesn't take being around here long to know which members (especially when several agree) actually know what they are talking about. And if you want to be absolutely sure, just ask, and we'll get around to providing the exact statutes and examples as we can. Some of us here are actually professional firearms legal experts.

    Cops are the among the WORST sources of information. Not only is it quite simply not their job to know the law, though they eventually learn the bits they use often, but if they don't know the answer or don't like the truth, they will often give their opinion under color of authority instead of telling you they don't know.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    It doesn't take being around here long to know which members (especially when several agree) actually know what they are talking about. And if you want to be absolutely sure, just ask, and we'll get around to providing the exact statutes and examples as we can. Some of us here are actually professional firearms legal experts.

    Cops are the among the WORST sources of information. Not only is it quite simply not their job to know the law, though they eventually learn the bits they use often, but if they don't know the answer or don't like the truth, they will often give their opinion under color of authority instead of telling you they don't know.
    I'm noticing that pattern haha. I bought my Ruger through a private sale from a cop, and he wouldn't sell it to me until I proved to him that I could buy a handgun through private sale under 21 in Nevada. I have had a couple off duty officers approach me about it (friendly encounters), so now I carry around a copy of NRS 202. 310 to prove I can own my ruger. However no issues with the open carry aspect.

    Edit: The officers knew I was under 21 because they knew either my fiancée or a friend Im with.
    Last edited by Jagorilla; 04-14-2015 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Clarification

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Cops are the among the WORST sources of information. Not only is it quite simply not their job to know the law, though they eventually learn the bits they use often, but if they don't know the answer or don't like the truth, they will often give their opinion under color of authority instead of telling you they don't know.
    There is a reason cops have cheat sheets and code books with them. I knew a lot of stuff by heart, and so did most of the traffic guys I worked with, but the patrol guys didn't. A lot of the guys know where to look in the book, but some aren't as bright as the others, and get stuff wrong, or in places were the cops suck, pull stupid shenanigans. Guess I was pretty lucky to live and work in a place where our cops had it together for the most part.

    But Mac's right. Case in point: Retired Lt., very smart guy. He worked for the city as the parking/community traffic supervisor. It was his sunset job, created just for him. I had to find creative ways to educate him on stuff that he had wrong. It was very annoying to be smarter than one's boss, but it was pretty cool when the sergeant asked me to write up opinions on stuff for city council members.

    I wrote my website (and my unit's municode training manual) by reading the codes. That's it. Just reading. A little common sense and reading comprehension goes a long way. Sadly, those two things are asking way too much these days.

    Just look on Facebook.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    ...Just look on Facebook.
    No thanks. I'll take your word for it.
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