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Thread: Attempted robbery of OCer in Washington state WalMart!

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Attempted robbery of OCer in Washington state WalMart!

    http://bearingarms.com/felon-attacks...paign=gpupdate

    A 32-year-old man who was shopping with at least three children at a Yakima Wal-Mart was the victim of an unprovoked assault when a stranger picked up a metal tee-ball bat and struck him, according to Yakima police.
    The attacker swung full force for his head.
    The gun was carried “open Carry”
    It was a 357 sig We think this person was trying to get the handgun by knockout hitting him in the head with a aluminum bat.
    He side stepped the blow and took the impact in the neck and shoulder he is receiving Dr.s treatment.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Interesting...

    Last edited by The Truth; 04-15-2015 at 03:01 PM.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    No facts known that I can see as to why this happened - all supposition.

    Comments on the link are the common OC v. CC replies.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Even if the facts are as reported, this falls into the category of "first time for everything" or "a couple of exceptions prove the rule." Who among us hasn't heard someone swear that he (or his friend's cousin's husband) was saved in a car crash only because he wasn't wearing a seat belt and was thrown clear of the burning or sinking car? Yet anyone who can do any math at all knows that wearing a seat belt is overwhelmingly more likely to save your live and reduce injuries in a crash than to be more harmful.

    Similar stats are one reason we choose to own guns. The antis trumpet their numbers about how many people are injured with their own or a family member's guns. Ignoring some dishonest terms that grossly inflate numbers, there is some truth to these claims. I'm more likely to be injured in a car crash if I own a car; those who fly are more likely to die in a plane crash than those who don't fly; I'm more likely to be electrocuted if I live in a home with electricity; I'm more likely to suffer a gas explosion if my home is plumbed for natural gas or propane; and I'm more likely to be injured with a gun if I own and shoot guns than if I don't. But that is only one side of the equation.

    Owning a car gives me tremendous transportational freedom and opportunities not afforded me if I don't own a car. This opens up work/income opportunities I would not otherwise have. In some cases, owning a car may well allow me to live in a much safer neighborhood than would be possible if I had to rely upon peddle power or mass transit to get to work each day. Flying commercial is the safest (if one of the lessor comfortable) form of transportation available. I'm much safer flying cross country than I am driving, walking, etc. Not to mention the time savings. Similarly, for the risks associated with having electricity, natural gas, or propane in my home, there are tremendous benefits and certain reduction of other risks.

    In exactly the same way, while owning guns increases my risk of injury from a gun, it dramatically reduces my risks of being raped, mugged, or beaten to death during an assault. It also provides recreation and enjoyment, qualify family time together, and is an exercise of my rights.

    In parallel fashion, if OCing a gun increases the risk of a gun being taken or being singled out for assault in a few rare cases, those risks/costs must be weighed against the benefits of OCing.

    How many people are not assaulted because they are obviously armed?

    How many people are armed and able to stop an assault when they otherwise might not be because OC is more comfortable than CC in certain circumstances?

    On the flip side, there are times when CCing provides the opportunity to carry when OCing might not be practical, comfortable, or prudent for some (often social, sometimes legal) reason.

    I really wish gun owners would be slower to find reasons to find fault with how others legally, peacefully carry. We have more than enough opponents/enemies without creating new opponents among those with whom we agree 95%+.

    It seems the guy had decent (not perfect, but decent) SA and was able to defend himself appropriately. Whether the felon targeted him to get his gun, to get his wallet, or to avenge some imagined offense, matters very little until the incidence of being targeted for the gun became far more prevalent than they have been or currently seem to be.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    From the...ahem...article: While open carry is legal in most parts of the nation, comparatively few people who have the option exercise it, and almost none who have considerable self-defense training take this route. Well-trained gun owners instead preferring to carry concealed so as to maintain anonymity so that they don’t stand out as a target for criminals and retain the tactical advantage of being armed, but not visibly so.
    Oh? So, now OCers are not well-trained? None have "considerable self-defense training"?

    Its one thing to argue CC vs OC. Its something else to slap OCers in the face.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh? So, now OCers are not well-trained? None have "considerable self-defense training"?

    Its one thing to argue CC vs OC. Its something else to slap OCers in the face.
    Funny thing is, I read the same line and considered it a slap against the training of uniformed police officers.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    I've got to call out the pink giant elephant in the room... isn't the father who was not even there the one who prognosticated that the bad guy was trying to steal an OC'd weapon? Not saying it's untrue, but I'd rather hear it from the bad guy himself. Also, didn't the OCer perform a citizen's arrest on the bad guy at gun point and no one was seriously injured or killed due to the OCer's situational awareness? Bad guy tried to "sucker punch" him so to speak with a baseball bat to the head and OCer was able to avert serious injury. I'd say that's a pretty well-trained OCer.

    Also, the Yakima Herald headline is completely inaccurate. Also, doesn't WA have permitless OC?
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  8. #8
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Read about this the other day on NWFA but there was no mention of open carry. If that had been the case it would've been all over tv by now.
    The article they linked said the attacker was a transient. Who the hell knows what he was really after? As far as I'm concerned this was not about open carry.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    --snip--

    Also, the Yakima Herald headline is completely inaccurate. Also, doesn't WA have permitless OC?
    Yes, no permit required to OC in WA.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/lat...lding-attacker

    first, it occurred in the store, in the sporting goods department.
    second, the victim was hit in the shoulder
    third, nice touch with a physical description of the firearm the victim was carrying in his holster.
    fourth, no mention of victim OC'g or of the perp going for the victim's gun. store video captured event.

    elephant shot and killed 'the truth'...as the original poster's article is pure bunk!!! sorry
    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 04-15-2015 at 11:56 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    According to comments section victim was OC. *shrug* The news story does not say, just focuses on his having a CC permit.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    SNIP We can certainly assume that at least the author of the article is very anti-open carry.
    Or as they call it, "very tactical".

    I think Bob Owens' byline was on it. If that is correct, I didn't recall his being so "tactical" but then most of his stuff I read is either technical or political not, OC/CC toe stuffs.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    "Walker was openly carrying his .357 Sig Sauer pistol in a holster that day because he said it was too warm to put on a jacket to cover it. Walker has had a concealed pistol license since March 2013, according to police."

    "Court records show Zumwalt has no prior felony convictions. In March, he pleaded guilty to misdemeanor assault in Yakima Municipal Court and was sentenced to five days in jail".


    "He is scheduled to be arraigned in Superior Court April 27."

    http://www.yakimaherald.com/home/308...art-bat-attack
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Recently in Florida a crazed anti gun lunatic tackled a CCer he was so terrified of an armed mundane.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Recently in Florida a crazed anti gun lunatic tackled a CCer he was so terrified of an armed mundane.
    Didn't that CC not get the upper hand of that situation like the OC'er (allegedly) did here?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    If you happen to be in Yakima, its best to always be aware of your surroundings at all times. Yakima, Washington is like the Compton or Watts of Kalifornia, don't go outside after dark and be heavily armed always.

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    Hey, we don't really know if this was an attempted robbery, or just a nutball attack, or what. The alleged perp has now been charged.


    Felony charge filed in Yakima bat attack on armed citizen

    A 20-year-old man identified as Trevor Zumwalt was charged yesterday in Yakima County Superior Court with felony assault for allegedly attacking an openly-armed citizen at a Wal-Mart last Saturday.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/felo...-armed-citizen

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    Regular Member 509rifas's Avatar
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    This is why I don't usually OC in the Yakima Valley, or at least not in my town.
    LIVE FREE OR DIE TRYING

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 509rifas View Post
    This is why I don't usually OC in the Yakima Valley, or at least not in my town.
    This? To what does "this" refer? Do you really expect to be struck with a baseball bat for OCing?

    Point of fact - we do not yet know what precipitated the attack.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I got news for these anti OC idiots, most criminals who are about to commit a crime, LOOK TO SEE WHO IS CARRYING. It is not hard to spot, most of us do it out of SA. I can pretty much bet criminals do also. IF he was OCing and this criminal was going for his gun, I doubt CC would have stopped the criminal.

    But there is no mention of the OC in the news report, and a poster CLAIMING to be his father is not credible at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I got news for these anti OC idiots, most criminals who are about to commit a crime, LOOK TO SEE WHO IS CARRYING. It is not hard to spot, most of us do it out of SA. I can pretty much bet criminals do also. IF he was OCing and this criminal was going for his gun, I doubt CC would have stopped the criminal.

    But there is no mention of the OC in the news report, and a poster CLAIMING to be his father is not credible at all.
    you need to reread the article. and if you are claiming someone isn't credible you need to prove it. you made the claim you need to prove it. pretty standard here at OCDO

  22. #22
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    you need to reread the article. and if you are claiming someone isn't credible you need to prove it. you made the claim you need to prove it. pretty standard here at OCDO
    I read the article and there is NO verifiable proof that the victim was OCing. NONE, NADA, ZIP. OTH I have list hundreds of incidents of CC permit holders being arrested and convicted for committing violent acts.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I read the article and there is NO verifiable proof that the victim was OCing. NONE, NADA, ZIP. OTH I have list hundreds of incidents of CC permit holders being arrested and convicted for committing violent acts.
    Read the links in posts #14 & #18 wherein the victim of the bat attack indicates he was open carrying.

    Haven't seen any possible security video, but until shown otherwise I will accept this as most likely true.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 04-17-2015 at 03:20 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Read the links in posts #14 & #18 wherein the victim of the bat attack indicates he was open carrying.

    Haven't seen any possible security video, but until shown otherwise I will accept this as most likely true.
    BTW, IMHO i do believe bob changed his original article, can't prove it but it is not what i initially read, per se., but i do believe dad is the first to bring up the subject of OC'g...Yakima's newspaper strictly says the victim has CC permit) then bob put out his second tirade article lambasting OC'g, and then daveW's article i am still trying to grasp his point.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Read the links in posts #14 & #18 wherein the victim of the bat attack indicates he was open carrying.

    Haven't seen any possible security video, but until shown otherwise I will accept this as most likely true.
    I didn't read those I went by the reports from bearing arms. So he was open carrying, and he let the guy get within striking distance with a bat. None of the reports indicate why the idiot hit him, he may not have even seen the firearm. But IF this was the case it would be extremely rare, extremely. Those jumping on one case when there are hundreds of cases of CC being attacked, or involved in crime makes them look foolish. SA is the most important part of carrying, and CC seem to get involved in more stuff than OC, IMO, due to lack of SA because they think they are anonymous.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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