Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: McAuliffe 'perfect' on vetoes; Lori Haas gloats

  1. #1
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    McAuliffe 'perfect' on vetoes; Lori Haas gloats

    All of McAuliffe's vetoes of gun bills are sustained:

    Governor perfect on vetoes, but splits with assembly on drones and electronic surveillance limits

    Why, because he stands with law enforcement, that's why:
    Republicans were unable to muster the two-thirds majorities in both chambers required to override any of McAuliffe’s 17 vetoes during the reconvened assembly session on Wednesday on issues ranging from political redistricting to gun rights and voter restrictions.

    “The governor went 17 for 17 on vetoes today,” said spokesman Brian Coy. “He vetoed bills that took our commonwealth in the wrong direction, and the General Assembly backed him up.”

    ...

    McAuliffe made clear Wednesday that he sides with law enforcement on the surveillance issues, personally lobbying the House and Senate Democratic caucuses in support of his proposed amendments.

    “As it comes to public safety issues, I am always going to come down on the side of law enforcement,” he said after meeting with Senate Democrats.

    McAuliffe cited meetings with Virginia State Police Superintendent W. Steven Flaherty and the sheriffs’ and police chiefs’ associations. “All of them are saying to me, ‘Use the tools we need to help keep Virginians safe,’ ” he said.

    “That to me is more important than job creation or anything else. The safety of your community and of your family ... this legislation helps us do it. It’s not overboard, it is common sense and reasonable.”
    So, a Police State "is more important than job creation or anything else" -- good to know.

    Lori Hass is happy:

    Championing gun violence prevention in the Commonwealth
    But today, as the legislature weighs in on Gov. Terry McAuliffe’s vetoes of three noxious pieces of legislation, it is clear that gun violence prevention has become a winning issue in Virginia.

    McAuliffe was one of three statewide candidates who swept to victory in the November 2013 elections while publicly and proudly embracing a platform calling for tougher gun laws ...

    Now he’s backing up the promises he made during his campaign. The bills the governor formally vetoed would have allowed loaded shotguns and rifles to be transported in vehicles, regardless of local laws; prevented Virginia law enforcement from sharing information about our state’s concealed handgun permit holders with certain other states; and forced local law enforcement to provide a certification or denial for the transfer of a machine gun within 60 days. These bills were all designed to be handouts to the gun lobby, and none of them had anything to do with improving public safety. In fact, they would have done just the opposite.

    Championing gun violence prevention is now the political high ground in our rapidly changing commonwealth.

    The General Assembly is now starting to get the message: Virginia voters are tired of lawmaking in the interest of gun industry profit, no matter the cost to public safety.

    The NRA will not be getting any gifts this year.

  2. #2
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    We can thank the invasion of foreigners* coming from states unfriendly to the SA who have come into our state and who have neglected to leave their social and political baggage behind before entering our domain. Virginia is rapidly losing that which made it special and unique among the states. Not a good thing.


    * Those from other places.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,628
    We have not yet begun to fight. John Paul Jones - Battle with H.M.S. Serapis

    That may not be historically accurate, but the depth of meaning applicable here is quite clear.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    We can thank the invasion of foreigners* coming from states unfriendly to the SA who have come into our state and who have neglected to leave their social and political baggage behind before entering our domain. Virginia is rapidly losing that which made it special and unique among the states. Not a good thing.


    * Those from other places.
    Please do not place the blame on the "come-here's". As far as I have observed they are not very active in campaigning for, or even supporting, anti-rights legislation. They seem to just "expect" stuff to happen that way.

    We are often confused whether we are fighting for the rights we have, for the restoration of some of the rights we have lost, or against the loss of even more rights. This just gives automatic concessions to the other side.

    For the sake of discussion I'll accept the "baby steps" theory - but I'd like to see a coordinated, cohesive battle plan with a single long-term goal. As things are going now we seem to be fighting each battle as it comes to us (and occasionally striking at what is preceived as a weak spot of the enemy). This has been the battle plan for the US military since the end of WWII and allowed Major Powers ("Heartbreak Ridge") to claim we are 2-0-1.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  5. #5
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newport News, VA, ,
    Posts
    1,586
    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    All of McAuliffe's vetoes of gun bills are sustained:

    Governor perfect on vetoes, but splits with assembly on drones and electronic surveillance limits

    Why, because he stands with law enforcement, that's why:


    So, a Police State "is more important than job creation or anything else" -- good to know.

    Lori Hass is happy:

    Championing gun violence prevention in the Commonwealth
    Lori Hass will also be included in the scope of the restrictions these laws impose on personal freedoms, and included in the "safety net" created by the enhanced surveillance that the lack of these laws can't curtail.

    I'm sure she'll feel safer on her travels through Maryland and that she'll be treated the same as any other law-abiding Virginian.

    Skid is, as usual, correct. We need a concerted strategy to focus on the long goal. If the Governor is "always going to come down on the side of law enforcement", then we need to present pro-gun legislation that law enforcement can support. (The Sheriff's Association was initially opposed to the "Form 4" legislation, then shifted to neutral after some word smithing. I heard from one source that they're willing to wait for a Republican governor. My local Police Chief wasn't even aware of the bill.) We also need to be sensitive to the social and economic issues that overshadow our cause. People worried about making their rent because of economic uncertainty aren't going to expend very much time or energy on anything else.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,628
    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    --snipped-- We also need to be sensitive to the social and economic issues that overshadow our cause. People worried about making their rent because of economic uncertainty aren't going to expend very much time or energy on anything else.
    Indeed the divide and conquer tactic can be effective. People limited by financial hardship (housing, food, medical) will look to the government to provide relief directly to them at the expense of freedom and responsibility in other areas.

    The government will help me AND protect me has become an only too common theme. Sadly (but not unexpectedly) both fail.

    Lori Hass is willing to sacrifice all else in the belief that a gunless/defenseless society will somehow be safer and therefore better. Sorry Lori - my/our right to have the tool(s) with which to defend myself and mine trumps your desire to feel good. What she cannot see/comprehend is that the tragedy that has befallen her family is a result of this thinking. She and our governor wish to expand this negative solution exponentially.

    Advocates and politicians who do not trust the people cannot be trusted to do the Right thing.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Indeed the divide and conquer tactic can be effective. People limited by financial hardship (housing, food, medical) will look to the government to provide relief directly to them at the expense of freedom and responsibility in other areas.

    The government will help me AND protect me has become an only too common theme. Sadly (but not unexpectedly) both fail.

    Lori Hass is willing to sacrifice all else in the belief that a gunless/defenseless society will somehow be safer and therefore better. Sorry Lori - my/our right to have the tool(s) with which to defend myself and mine trumps your desire to feel good. What she cannot see/comprehend is that the tragedy that has befallen her family is a result of this thinking. She and our governor wish to expand this negative solution exponentially.

    Advocates and politicians who do not trust the people cannot be trusted to do the Right thing.
    It's always about you, isn't it?

    Not necessarily Grapeshot individually, but up until now the argument put forth by "our side" has been personal rather than social. Lori and her ilk, on the other hand, have gotten as far as they have by making it a social issue that involves even those that do not think or care about the issue. The more this goes on the more I am inclined to think that Open Carry Tarant County, with their "We're queer and we're here" attitude might in fact be the only way to go from the individual to the social. What keeps me from endorsing that - at this time - is that while we may have a larger population base than the gay community we remain fragmented and divisive beyween those fragments. Hunters don't care what happens to pistol folks, target shooters don't care if they have to store their guns at the clubhouse because that's the only place they use them anyhow, etc., etc. ad nauseum.

    So what's the unifying there, and wy can't gunners get together under that banner?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post

    Skid is, as usual, correct. .
    No. I'm just less wrong. It's a curse I must bear.

    And I get off on occassionally playing Captain Obvious.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,166
    Somebody has to carry the banner, the leader. Self-appointed leaders ALWAYS have feet of clay.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Somebody has to carry the banner, the leader. Self-appointed leaders ALWAYS have feet of clay.
    Yeah....but leader of what, who? Skids right, we're a fragmented force. While SOME of us do care about all gun rights, the majority are either oblivious to the fight or have tunnel vision.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,628
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yeah....but leader of what, who? Skids right, we're a fragmented force. While SOME of us do care about all gun rights, the majority are either oblivious to the fight or have tunnel vision.
    Indeed some of us do care.

    There has been a history of separate "clubs" and separate goals. Now who is going to change that and unify the forces? WE are - at every opportunity and in every hamlet. Can't/won't wait for Mikey to say he likes it.

    There is room on the band wagon for more - volunteers needed.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Indeed some of us do care.

    There has been a history of separate "clubs" and separate goals. Now who is going to change that and unify the forces? WE are - at every opportunity and in every hamlet. Can't/won't wait for Mikey to say he likes it.

    There is room on the band wagon for more - volunteers needed.
    Amen

  13. #13
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,964

    Change Public Perception and the Mindset.

    This sounds like a call for a strategy. Strategy is long term , takes patience and to implement requires actors to agree and work toward common objectives. Do you think the gun owners community has what it takes to implement a strategy?


    My thoughts:

    Gun rights organizations are losing the public perception game in Virginia. Antis use terms like gun violence prevention and loophole to shape the debate.

    In order to win we must use terms like civil rights supression, grossly inaccurate and illogical to describe the positions of the Antis.

    The Antis paint open carriers as extremeists. One of the most effective campaigns I have seen to counter this is the Keene, N.H. open carry trash pick up campaign.

    Connect to people by doing good things unrelated to gun ownership while open carrying. This will change minds and the mindset.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  14. #14
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Act like a civil rights community

    Act like a civil rights community. That begins with talking like a civil rights community.

    We are a community, so start saying so.

    Open Carry equals Consciousness raising. It's coming out. Those who are opposed are intolerant, so stop acting defensive and put them on the defensive: self-disclosure is self-emancipation.

  15. #15
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    on a rock in the james river
    Posts
    1,453
    Agree with Repeater and Thundar.
    When someone inquires about my firearm (rarely), I have been responding that i am an advocate for our civil rights.
    Last edited by riverrat10k; 04-18-2015 at 09:58 AM.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

    --Robert A. Heinlein

    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

  16. #16
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519
    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Agree with Repeater and Thundar.
    When someone inquires about my firearm (rarely), I have been responding that i am an advocate for our civil rights.
    Depending on your audience and circumstances, you might want to mix it up; consider saying ...

    I am an advocate for our natural rights.

    After all, some of us still believe our rights begin, and end, with Almighty God.

    I might suggest the Open Carry community consider formulating a dialog based on Christian Apologetics that I would call Open Carry Apologetics, based on the fundamental instinct of self-preservation.

    For a discussion of Natural Law and the law of self-preservation, see here and here.

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Depending on your audience and circumstances, you might want to mix it up; consider saying ...

    I am an advocate for our natural rights.

    After all, some of us still believe our rights begin, and end, with Almighty God.

    I might suggest the Open Carry community consider formulating a dialog based on Christian Apologetics that I would call Open Carry Apologetics, based on the fundamental instinct of self-preservation.

    For a discussion of Natural Law and the law of self-preservation, see here and here.
    Why wait. We are are the open carry community.

  18. #18
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Please do not place the blame on the "come-here's". As far as I have observed they are not very active in campaigning for, or even supporting, anti-rights legislation. They seem to just "expect" stuff to happen that way.

    We are often confused whether we are fighting for the rights we have, for the restoration of some of the rights we have lost, or against the loss of even more rights. This just gives automatic concessions to the other side.

    For the sake of discussion I'll accept the "baby steps" theory - but I'd like to see a coordinated, cohesive battle plan with a single long-term goal. As things are going now we seem to be fighting each battle as it comes to us (and occasionally striking at what is preceived as a weak spot of the enemy). This has been the battle plan for the US military since the end of WWII and allowed Major Powers ("Heartbreak Ridge") to claim we are 2-0-1.

    stay safe.
    In my neck of the state, I have seen this take place over the past 60 years. Washington, DC is a huge employment attraction and that has brought people here from a bunch of places who do not know or support Virginia traditions. I have heard them talk at lunch counters, in office settings, on the street, and a host of other places. They have no problem with turning my part of the state into something other than what it was when I was a young boy. And they have succeeded in doing just this.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    It is disappointing that people come here to enjoy the benefits of civilization and then fail to realize that they, themselves, are culturally different and a threat to the traditions and systems that attracted them to Virginia. There are forces at work seeking to create a unified imperial state in the United States, because they hope to be able to control the people by controlling the central authority. I see the Governor as a representative of such. He's here specifically to subvert the Constitution of the United States, in my opinion, though he may be acting ignorantly and out of self-interest.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    In my neck of the state, I have seen this take place over the past 60 years. Washington, DC is a huge employment attraction and that has brought people here from a bunch of places who do not know or support Virginia traditions. I have heard them talk at lunch counters, in office settings, on the street, and a host of other places. They have no problem with turning my part of the state into something other than what it was wh

    en I was a young boy. And they have succeeded in doing just this.
    That's true to a point SB but as you've pointed out to me about north of the Ni folks...one size doesn't fit all. It's surprising how many fine people on this site came from the nether world. It isn't quite as surprising the number of born Virginians that are on my smack on sight list.

    Imo...the VA Beach area is just as bad about having undesirable imports as NOVA.
    As a matter of fact I have video and audio of a VB EM...telling me they were a self defense group and not interested in hunters. Snotty little fellow, works the shows there.

    Like most things, I have a theory about tidewater. First, I think the navy gives it's undesirables shore leave...then sails away. Second, I think saltwater has been leeching into the wells. If you read about shipwrecked sailors drinking salt water, insanity is one of the results.

    I unfortunately know a dog hunter, ex navy from joisey...won't say his name because he's a member here, lives at the beach and wants to close the gun show loophole. Dog hunters are always claiming the come here's are the only ones that hate them...ain't true though.
    Last edited by peter nap; 04-20-2015 at 09:27 AM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern Piedmont-Culpeper
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    It is disappointing that people come here to enjoy the benefits of civilization and then fail to realize that they, themselves, are culturally different and a threat to the traditions and systems that attracted them to Virginia. There are forces at work seeking to create a unified imperial state in the United States, because they hope to be able to control the people by controlling the central authority. I see the Governor as a representative of such. He's here specifically to subvert the Constitution of the United States, in my opinion, though he may be acting ignorantly and out of self-interest.
    He's not acting out of ignorance nor self-interest. He is following the Party playbook and positioning himself to rise within the Party. I predict Kaine will take some sort of position in the Hillary Cabinet, McAuliffe will run and win the Senate seat vacated by Kaine, and Herring will move into the Governor's mansion. And make no mistake about it: Herring will be ten times worse on any and all 2A rights.
    "Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by scooter348 View Post
    He's not acting out of ignorance nor self-interest. He is following the Party playbook and positioning himself to rise within the Party. I predict Kaine will take some sort of position in the Hillary Cabinet, McAuliffe will run and win the Senate seat vacated by Kaine, and Herring will move into the Governor's mansion. And make no mistake about it: Herring will be ten times worse on any and all 2A rights.
    I'd love to whistle through the graveyard and say your wrong Scooter, but I made the same prediction months ago.
    Last edited by peter nap; 04-20-2015 at 10:11 AM.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,628
    There have been dire predictions about Virginia's future - some that would cause Thomas Jefferson and his contemporaries to rise up from the ground in outrage.

    I'm not willing to roll over and play dead - not even willing to conceed any aspect of the Damnocrat's platform/agenda.

    We must see a bonding together of the many conservative factions in the Commonwealth if we are to interupt the flow of big brother/big government in our state and nationally. Even if we accomplish that, Kaine (ain't able) will still likely be rewarded with a position of national prominence, if the Dems win the white house again.

    If we shut the Dems out of the white house, Kaine is left to wilt in the Senate as a male Pelosi - making a lot of ineffectual noise. Then McAwful has no where to go but to the D party to receive his 30 pieces of silver - state or national committee, or chairman?

    We must win the VA senate elections and keep our values reflected properly there.

    The executive branch elections in VA could well be ours to grab - again if the various conservation groups can pull in tandem and swing for the fences. Many battles to be fought between now and then. Saddle up and ride, fight hard, fight well. I smell a fresh breeze blowing.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    I hope we can pull it off grape, but honestly, I've never seen the state so divided nor have I ever seen the enemy of my enemy played as much as now.
    The presidential is still unknown. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts on the governor...Kaine. ..who knows, he may sleep through the whole thing.

    And then there is the va house and senate. I don't think I'm the only one that's noticed the Republican reluctance to enact real ethics reform. It's the small special interest groups that'll win this very tight race.

  25. #25
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That's true to a point SB but as you've pointed out to me about north of the Ni folks...one size doesn't fit all. It's surprising how many fine people on this site came from the nether world. It isn't quite as surprising the number of born Virginians that are on my smack on sight list.

    Imo...the VA Beach area is just as bad about having undesirable imports as NOVA.
    As a matter of fact I have video and audio of a VB EM...telling me they were a self defense group and not interested in hunters. Snotty little fellow, works the shows there.

    Like most things, I have a theory about tidewater. First, I think the navy gives it's undesirables shore leave...then sails away. Second, I think saltwater has been leeching into the wells. If you read about shipwrecked sailors drinking salt water, insanity is one of the results.

    I unfortunately know a dog hunter, ex navy from joisey...won't say his name because he's a member here, lives at the beach and wants to close the gun show loophole. Dog hunters are always claiming the come here's are the only ones that hate them...ain't true though.
    I should add that I also know quite a few people who have come here from areas up north, and from foreign countries, who love Virginia and embrace its richness. The father in the family who lives directly across the street from me is from Boston and is a solid conservative. The lady who cuts my hair is from Vietnam and can't stand Obama because she thinks of communist Vietnam when she sees him on the air.

    There are others to be certain. But there are also enough of the ones who come here and bring their ideas with them then try to change what we have had traditionally.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •