McAuliffe 'perfect' on vetoes; Lori Haas gloats

Repeater · Apr 16, 2015

All of McAuliffe's vetoes of gun bills are sustained:

Governor perfect on vetoes, but splits with assembly on drones and electronic surveillance limits

Why, because he stands with law enforcement, that's why:

Republicans were unable to muster the two-thirds majorities in both chambers required to override any of McAuliffe’s 17 vetoes during the reconvened assembly session on Wednesday on issues ranging from political redistricting to gun rights and voter restrictions.

“The governor went 17 for 17 on vetoes today,” said spokesman Brian Coy. “He vetoed bills that took our commonwealth in the wrong direction, and the General Assembly backed him up.”

...

McAuliffe made clear Wednesday that he sides with law enforcement on the surveillance issues, personally lobbying the House and Senate Democratic caucuses in support of his proposed amendments.

“As it comes to public safety issues, I am always going to come down on the side of law enforcement,” he said after meeting with Senate Democrats.

McAuliffe cited meetings with Virginia State Police Superintendent W. Steven Flaherty and the sheriffs’ and police chiefs’ associations. “All of them are saying to me, ‘Use the tools we need to help keep Virginians safe,’ ” he said.

“That to me is more important than job creation or anything else. The safety of your community and of your family ... this legislation helps us do it. It’s not overboard, it is common sense and reasonable.”

So, a Police State "is more important than job creation or anything else" -- good to know.

Lori Hass is happy:

Championing gun violence prevention in the Commonwealth

But today, as the legislature weighs in on Gov. Terry McAuliffe’s vetoes of three noxious pieces of legislation, it is clear that gun violence prevention has become a winning issue in Virginia.

McAuliffe was one of three statewide candidates who swept to victory in the November 2013 elections while publicly and proudly embracing a platform calling for tougher gun laws ...

Now he’s backing up the promises he made during his campaign. The bills the governor formally vetoed would have allowed loaded shotguns and rifles to be transported in vehicles, regardless of local laws; prevented Virginia law enforcement from sharing information about our state’s concealed handgun permit holders with certain other states; and forced local law enforcement to provide a certification or denial for the transfer of a machine gun within 60 days. These bills were all designed to be handouts to the gun lobby, and none of them had anything to do with improving public safety. In fact, they would have done just the opposite.

Championing gun violence prevention is now the political high ground in our rapidly changing commonwealth.

The General Assembly is now starting to get the message: Virginia voters are tired of lawmaking in the interest of gun industry profit, no matter the cost to public safety.

The NRA will not be getting any gifts this year.

SouthernBoy · Apr 16, 2015

We can thank the invasion of foreigners* coming from states unfriendly to the SA who have come into our state and who have neglected to leave their social and political baggage behind before entering our domain. Virginia is rapidly losing that which made it special and unique among the states. Not a good thing.

* Those from other places.

Grapeshot · Apr 16, 2015

We have not yet begun to fight. John Paul Jones - Battle with H.M.S. Serapis

That may not be historically accurate, but the depth of meaning applicable here is quite clear.

skidmark · Apr 16, 2015

SouthernBoy said:
We can thank the invasion of foreigners* coming from states unfriendly to the SA who have come into our state and who have neglected to leave their social and political baggage behind before entering our domain. Virginia is rapidly losing that which made it special and unique among the states. Not a good thing.

* Those from other places.

Please do not place the blame on the "come-here's". As far as I have observed they are not very active in campaigning for, or even supporting, anti-rights legislation. They seem to just "expect" stuff to happen that way.

We are often confused whether we are fighting for the rights we have, for the restoration of some of the rights we have lost, or against the loss of even more rights. This just gives automatic concessions to the other side.

For the sake of discussion I'll accept the "baby steps" theory - but I'd like to see a coordinated, cohesive battle plan with a single long-term goal. As things are going now we seem to be fighting each battle as it comes to us (and occasionally striking at what is preceived as a weak spot of the enemy). This has been the battle plan for the US military since the end of WWII and allowed Major Powers ("Heartbreak Ridge") to claim we are 2-0-1.

stay safe.

2a4all · Apr 16, 2015

Repeater said:
All of McAuliffe's vetoes of gun bills are sustained:

Governor perfect on vetoes, but splits with assembly on drones and electronic surveillance limits

Why, because he stands with law enforcement, that's why:

So, a Police State "is more important than job creation or anything else" -- good to know.

Lori Hass is happy:

Championing gun violence prevention in the Commonwealth

Lori Hass will also be included in the scope of the restrictions these laws impose on personal freedoms, and included in the "safety net" created by the enhanced surveillance that the lack of these laws can't curtail.

I'm sure she'll feel safer on her travels through Maryland and that she'll be treated the same as any other law-abiding Virginian.

Skid is, as usual, correct. We need a concerted strategy to focus on the long goal. If the Governor is "always going to come down on the side of law enforcement", then we need to present pro-gun legislation that law enforcement can support. (The Sheriff's Association was initially opposed to the "Form 4" legislation, then shifted to neutral after some word smithing. I heard from one source that they're willing to wait for a Republican governor. My local Police Chief wasn't even aware of the bill.) We also need to be sensitive to the social and economic issues that overshadow our cause. People worried about making their rent because of economic uncertainty aren't going to expend very much time or energy on anything else.

Grapeshot · Apr 17, 2015

2a4all said:
--snipped-- We also need to be sensitive to the social and economic issues that overshadow our cause. People worried about making their rent because of economic uncertainty aren't going to expend very much time or energy on anything else.

Indeed the divide and conquer tactic can be effective. People limited by financial hardship (housing, food, medical) will look to the government to provide relief directly to them at the expense of freedom and responsibility in other areas.

The government will help me AND protect me has become an only too common theme. Sadly (but not unexpectedly) both fail.

Lori Hass is willing to sacrifice all else in the belief that a gunless/defenseless society will somehow be safer and therefore better. Sorry Lori - my/our right to have the tool(s) with which to defend myself and mine trumps your desire to feel good. What she cannot see/comprehend is that the tragedy that has befallen her family is a result of this thinking. She and our governor wish to expand this negative solution exponentially.

Advocates and politicians who do not trust the people cannot be trusted to do the Right thing.

skidmark · Apr 17, 2015

Grapeshot said:
Indeed the divide and conquer tactic can be effective. People limited by financial hardship (housing, food, medical) will look to the government to provide relief directly to them at the expense of freedom and responsibility in other areas.

The government will help me AND protect me has become an only too common theme. Sadly (but not unexpectedly) both fail.

Lori Hass is willing to sacrifice all else in the belief that a gunless/defenseless society will somehow be safer and therefore better. Sorry Lori - my/our right to have the tool(s) with which to defend myself and mine trumps your desire to feel good. What she cannot see/comprehend is that the tragedy that has befallen her family is a result of this thinking. She and our governor wish to expand this negative solution exponentially.

Advocates and politicians who do not trust the people cannot be trusted to do the Right thing.

It's always about you, isn't it?

Not necessarily Grapeshot individually, but up until now the argument put forth by "our side" has been personal rather than social. Lori and her ilk, on the other hand, have gotten as far as they have by making it a social issue that involves even those that do not think or care about the issue. The more this goes on the more I am inclined to think that Open Carry Tarant County, with their "We're queer and we're here" attitude might in fact be the only way to go from the individual to the social. What keeps me from endorsing that - at this time - is that while we may have a larger population base than the gay community we remain fragmented and divisive beyween those fragments. Hunters don't care what happens to pistol folks, target shooters don't care if they have to store their guns at the clubhouse because that's the only place they use them anyhow, etc., etc. ad nauseum.

So what's the unifying there, and wy can't gunners get together under that banner?

stay safe.

skidmark · Apr 17, 2015

2a4all said:
Skid is, as usual, correct. .

No. I'm just less wrong. It's a curse I must bear.

And I get off on occassionally playing Captain Obvious.

stay safe.

peter nap · Apr 17, 2015

Nightmare said:
Somebody has to carry the banner, the leader. Self-appointed leaders ALWAYS have feet of clay.

Yeah....but leader of what, who? Skids right, we're a fragmented force. While SOME of us do care about all gun rights, the majority are either oblivious to the fight or have tunnel vision.

Grapeshot · Apr 17, 2015

peter nap said:
Yeah....but leader of what, who? Skids right, we're a fragmented force. While SOME of us do care about all gun rights, the majority are either oblivious to the fight or have tunnel vision.

Indeed some of us do care.

There has been a history of separate "clubs" and separate goals. Now who is going to change that and unify the forces? WE are - at every opportunity and in every hamlet. Can't/won't wait for Mikey to say he likes it.

There is room on the band wagon for more - volunteers needed.

peter nap · Apr 17, 2015

Grapeshot said:
Indeed some of us do care.

There has been a history of separate "clubs" and separate goals. Now who is going to change that and unify the forces? WE are - at every opportunity and in every hamlet. Can't/won't wait for Mikey to say he likes it.

There is room on the band wagon for more - volunteers needed.

Amen

Thundar · Apr 17, 2015

Change Public Perception and the Mindset.

This sounds like a call for a strategy. Strategy is long term , takes patience and to implement requires actors to agree and work toward common objectives. Do you think the gun owners community has what it takes to implement a strategy?

My thoughts:

Gun rights organizations are losing the public perception game in Virginia. Antis use terms like gun violence prevention and loophole to shape the debate.

In order to win we must use terms like civil rights supression, grossly inaccurate and illogical to describe the positions of the Antis.

The Antis paint open carriers as extremeists. One of the most effective campaigns I have seen to counter this is the Keene, N.H. open carry trash pick up campaign.

Connect to people by doing good things unrelated to gun ownership while open carrying. This will change minds and the mindset.

Repeater · Apr 17, 2015

Act like a civil rights community

Act like a civil rights community. That begins with talking like a civil rights community.

We are a community, so start saying so.

Open Carry equals Consciousness raising. It's coming out. Those who are opposed are intolerant, so stop acting defensive and put them on the defensive: self-disclosure is self-emancipation.

riverrat10k · Apr 18, 2015

Agree with Repeater and Thundar.
When someone inquires about my firearm (rarely), I have been responding that i am an advocate for our civil rights.

Repeater · Apr 18, 2015

riverrat10k said:
Agree with Repeater and Thundar.
When someone inquires about my firearm (rarely), I have been responding that i am an advocate for our civil rights.

Depending on your audience and circumstances, you might want to mix it up; consider saying ...

[size=+1]I am an advocate for our natural rights.[/size]

After all, some of us still believe our rights begin, and end, with Almighty God.

I might suggest the Open Carry community consider formulating a dialog based on Christian Apologetics that I would call Open Carry Apologetics, based on the fundamental instinct of self-preservation.

For a discussion of Natural Law and the law of self-preservation, see here and here.

peter nap · Apr 18, 2015

Repeater said:
Depending on your audience and circumstances, you might want to mix it up; consider saying ...

[size=+1]I am an advocate for our natural rights.[/size]

After all, some of us still believe our rights begin, and end, with Almighty God.

I might suggest the Open Carry community consider formulating a dialog based on Christian Apologetics that I would call Open Carry Apologetics, based on the fundamental instinct of self-preservation.

For a discussion of Natural Law and the law of self-preservation, see here and here.

Why wait. We are are the open carry community.

SouthernBoy · Apr 19, 2015

skidmark said:
Please do not place the blame on the "come-here's". As far as I have observed they are not very active in campaigning for, or even supporting, anti-rights legislation. They seem to just "expect" stuff to happen that way.

We are often confused whether we are fighting for the rights we have, for the restoration of some of the rights we have lost, or against the loss of even more rights. This just gives automatic concessions to the other side.

For the sake of discussion I'll accept the "baby steps" theory - but I'd like to see a coordinated, cohesive battle plan with a single long-term goal. As things are going now we seem to be fighting each battle as it comes to us (and occasionally striking at what is preceived as a weak spot of the enemy). This has been the battle plan for the US military since the end of WWII and allowed Major Powers ("Heartbreak Ridge") to claim we are 2-0-1.

stay safe.

In my neck of the state, I have seen this take place over the past 60 years. Washington, DC is a huge employment attraction and that has brought people here from a bunch of places who do not know or support Virginia traditions. I have heard them talk at lunch counters, in office settings, on the street, and a host of other places. They have no problem with turning my part of the state into something other than what it was when I was a young boy. And they have succeeded in doing just this.

user · Apr 20, 2015

It is disappointing that people come here to enjoy the benefits of civilization and then fail to realize that they, themselves, are culturally different and a threat to the traditions and systems that attracted them to Virginia. There are forces at work seeking to create a unified imperial state in the United States, because they hope to be able to control the people by controlling the central authority. I see the Governor as a representative of such. He's here specifically to subvert the Constitution of the United States, in my opinion, though he may be acting ignorantly and out of self-interest.

peter nap · Apr 20, 2015

SouthernBoy said:
In my neck of the state, I have seen this take place over the past 60 years. Washington, DC is a huge employment attraction and that has brought people here from a bunch of places who do not know or support Virginia traditions. I have heard them talk at lunch counters, in office settings, on the street, and a host of other places. They have no problem with turning my part of the state into something other than what it was wh

en I was a young boy. And they have succeeded in doing just this.

That's true to a point SB but as you've pointed out to me about north of the Ni folks...one size doesn't fit all. It's surprising how many fine people on this site came from the nether world. It isn't quite as surprising the number of born Virginians that are on my smack on sight list.

Imo...the VA Beach area is just as bad about having undesirable imports as NOVA.
As a matter of fact I have video and audio of a VB EM...telling me they were a self defense group and not interested in hunters. Snotty little fellow, works the shows there.

Like most things, I have a theory about tidewater. First, I think the navy gives it's undesirables shore leave...then sails away. Second, I think saltwater has been leeching into the wells. If you read about shipwrecked sailors drinking salt water, insanity is one of the results.

I unfortunately know a dog hunter, ex navy from joisey...won't say his name because he's a member here, lives at the beach and wants to close the gun show loophole. Dog hunters are always claiming the come here's are the only ones that hate them...ain't true though.

scooter348 · Apr 20, 2015

user said:
It is disappointing that people come here to enjoy the benefits of civilization and then fail to realize that they, themselves, are culturally different and a threat to the traditions and systems that attracted them to Virginia. There are forces at work seeking to create a unified imperial state in the United States, because they hope to be able to control the people by controlling the central authority. I see the Governor as a representative of such. He's here specifically to subvert the Constitution of the United States, in my opinion, though he may be acting ignorantly and out of self-interest.

He's not acting out of ignorance nor self-interest. He is following the Party playbook and positioning himself to rise within the Party. I predict Kaine will take some sort of position in the Hillary Cabinet, McAuliffe will run and win the Senate seat vacated by Kaine, and Herring will move into the Governor's mansion. And make no mistake about it: Herring will be ten times worse on any and all 2A rights.

McAuliffe 'perfect' on vetoes; Lori Haas gloats

Regular Member

Regular Member

Legendary Warrior

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Legendary Warrior

Campaign Veteran

Campaign Veteran

Accomplished Advocate

Legendary Warrior

Accomplished Advocate

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Accomplished Advocate

Regular Member

Accomplished Advocate

Accomplished Advocate

Regular Member