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Thread: Grass Roots Mov't and PPP

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    Grass Roots Mov't and PPP

    Why don't they work to repeal the PPP? Went to the gun show the other day and realized that NC has disproportionately higher prices on not only pistols but rifles. Lower receivers, however the law might be concerned may disagree, are firearms but not pistols.

    Not to mention Jim Crow-esque origins of the PPP, you'd think the old heads in charge of a "grass roots" movement would be concerned for the layman and not just those privileged enough to take an eight hour class plus $$$ to carry a hand gun? Seems silly to me.

    Not to mention, the open carry clause is only legal because it is not illegal?

    Let's get with the times, friends. The 2A nor any amendments won't ever go away, nor will the Constitution, nor will the Declaration. However, rule of law will come by regulation. What's the 2A matter if I can't obtain a permit to buy a handgun in the first place? And now rifles? Silly silly silly.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf704 View Post
    Why don't they work to repeal the PPP? Went to the gun show the other day and realized that NC has disproportionately higher prices on not only pistols but rifles. Lower receivers, however the law might be concerned may disagree, are firearms but not pistols.

    Not to mention Jim Crow-esque origins of the PPP, you'd think the old heads in charge of a "grass roots" movement would be concerned for the layman and not just those privileged enough to take an eight hour class plus $$$ to carry a hand gun? Seems silly to me.

    Not to mention, the open carry clause is only legal because it is not illegal?

    Let's get with the times, friends. The 2A nor any amendments won't ever go away, nor will the Constitution, nor will the Declaration. However, rule of law will come by regulation. What's the 2A matter if I can't obtain a permit to buy a handgun in the first place? And now rifles? Silly silly silly.
    Welcome to OCDO, asdf704.

    Yep, open carry is legal because is is not forbidden by statute. Laws are generally passed to restrict something, not authorize an act.

    Handguns are tools. No more evil than a hammer or a shovel. Any tool can be used to facilitate a criminal act. It is the person that either breaks no laws in the use thereof or commits a crime. We already have adequate laws from assault & battery on up to various levels of homicide - no qualification is needed as to what tool was used.

    Want to change the laws in your state? Get involved in the process become active.
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    Don't see why that same logic can't be applied to when I put said tool inside of my pocket or when I decide to buy one.

    Also, thank you. I am obviously only my own man so to try to be involved seems tedious - my efforts seemed to be best place with a group like GRNC but they don't seem to be oriented toward the freedom of man but of privileged man. Would be nice to see some younger folks there as well but you know, politics seems to be an old man's game.
    Last edited by asdf704; 04-20-2015 at 04:42 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf704 View Post
    Don't see why that same logic can't be applied to when I put said tool inside of my pocket or when I decide to buy one.

    Also, thank you. I am obviously only my own man so to try to be involved seems tedious - my efforts seemed to be best place with a group like GRNC but they don't seem to be oriented toward the freedom of man but of privileged man. Would be nice to see some younger folks there as well but you know, politics seems to be an old man's game.
    I understand what you are saying.

    Constitutional Carry is the Holy Grail, but until then we do have laws/statutes that set certain conditions for concealed carry.

    Politics, lobbying, and otherwise dedicating many hours to the efforts to improve our RKBA is by default to those either retired or independently financially free.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    welcome to the forum..

    the PPP has nothing to do with the cost of firearms in the Tarheel state...no matter what GRNC says...

    and in many ways the concept of using a PPP or your CHP in lieu of the FFL doing a NICS bkgnd check is better in some ways as both documents are good for 5 years and could cover up a multitude of discretions from the time you got the PPP/CHP and the time you are presenting them to purchase a firearm...

    last year certain factions within the state, in concert with outside interests, tried to eliminate the PPP w/o success. the new homeland security firearm legislation bill again has this very same subject within its subject matter.

    again welcome to the forum, interesting timing for you to join the group with your question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf704 View Post
    What's the 2A matter if I can't obtain a permit to buy a handgun in the first place? And now rifles? Silly silly silly.
    ???

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by asdf704

    What's the 2A matter if I can't obtain a permit to buy a handgun in the first place? And now rifles? Silly silly silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    ???
    Nice catch BC - I missed that earlier.

    Unless I missed something in the last 24 hours, there is no permission slip required to purchase long guns from an FFL or private party if one is at least 18 yo and not otherwise restricted.

    "No state permit is required to purchase a rifle or shotgun.It is lawful for citizens of the State to purchase rifles and shotguns and ammunition in states contiguous to this State."

    http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_nc.htm
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Nice catch BC - I missed that earlier.

    Unless I missed something in the last 24 hours, there is no permission slip required to purchase long guns from an FFL or private party if one is at least 18 yo and not otherwise restricted.

    "No state permit is required to purchase a rifle or shotgun.It is lawful for citizens of the State to purchase rifles and shotguns and ammunition in states contiguous to this State."

    http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_nc.htm
    Not required, but PPP has been used for years, with federal blessing, to bypass background check when purchasing a long gun. Since the system has gotten better it is not needed like it once was. Fifteen years ago a person could end up delayed for days to be approved. The PPP solved that problem, but I have not heard of the long delays as of late.

    GRNC uses the bypass of BC as a selling point for CHP, they did fight hard to have the PPP removed. As well at the same time the tried to have the OC restaurant loophole removed. They failed with both.

    As long as the current BC system functions as it is supposed to, I see no need for a PPP, or a CHP.
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    All I needed was the simple BC last month when I bought my stripped lower receiver, no PPP. Same goes for rifles.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikogto View Post
    All I needed was the simple BC last month when I bought my stripped lower receiver, no PPP. Same goes for rifles.
    Well here is the problem with that~~If your lower is not designated as a handgun receiver, and you complete it as a handgun, you need a tax stamp as a SBR. If you bought it as a handgun your FFL should not have transferred it without a PPP. I had to have one for a 1911 lower. Rifles do not require a PPP, only handguns. Personally the PPP is less a PITA than getting a tax stamp. Possession of a SBR without a tax stamp is a felony.

    It is your liberty, but I would suggest getting the tax stamp if plan on making that AR lower a pistol.

    Search subguns and this topic has come up a few times.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 04-22-2015 at 01:23 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Well here is the problem with that~~If your lower is not designated as a handgun receiver, and you complete it as a handgun, you need a tax stamp as a SBR. If you bought it as a handgun your FFL should not have transferred it without a PPP. I had to have one for a 1911 lower. Rifles do not require a PPP, only handguns. Personally the PPP is less a PITA than getting a tax stamp. Possession of a SBR without a tax stamp is a felony.

    It is your liberty, but I would suggest getting the tax stamp if plan on making that AR lower a pistol.

    Search subguns and this topic has come up a few times.
    Sorry I didn't clarify, I built an AR 15 rifle, not a pistol platform. So I should be good there.

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf704 View Post
    Why don't they work to repeal the PPP? Went to the gun show the other day and realized that NC has disproportionately higher prices on not only pistols but rifles. Lower receivers, however the law might be concerned may disagree, are firearms but not pistols.

    Not to mention Jim Crow-esque origins of the PPP, you'd think the old heads in charge of a "grass roots" movement would be concerned for the layman and not just those privileged enough to take an eight hour class plus $$$ to carry a hand gun? Seems silly to me.

    Not to mention, the open carry clause is only legal because it is not illegal?

    Let's get with the times, friends. The 2A nor any amendments won't ever go away, nor will the Constitution, nor will the Declaration. However, rule of law will come by regulation. What's the 2A matter if I can't obtain a permit to buy a handgun in the first place? And now rifles? Silly silly silly.
    They have, and will again, work to repeal the PPP. It has been killed (thus far) mostly by opposition by the NC Sheriff's Association and their influence in the NC Assembly.

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    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    They have, and will again, work to repeal the PPP. It has been killed (thus far) mostly by opposition by the NC Sheriff's Association and their influence in the NC Assembly.
    That is because they want control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDT COX View Post
    That is because they want control.
    Needs to maintain relevancy....sounds like someone is self-conscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Nice catch BC - I missed that earlier.

    Unless I missed something in the last 24 hours, there is no permission slip required to purchase long guns from an FFL or private party if one is at least 18 yo and not otherwise restricted.

    "No state permit is required to purchase a rifle or shotgun.It is lawful for citizens of the State to purchase rifles and shotguns and ammunition in states contiguous to this State."

    http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_nc.htm
    Hi, sorry. Terminology issue.

    What I consider to be a rifle, i.e stripped AR-15 lower receiver is what some FFLs consider to be "potentially" a pistol.

    Anyways here's an anecdote - I asked a merchant if I needed a PPP to purchase an AR-15 pistol and he nodded yes. (Obviously. I understand this part of the law. Just looks stupid to me.)

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