Does anyone know the average time differntial between cc vs oc when drawing

g21sfpistol said:

all the crap he has talked on other posts I'm not going to post first, because i don't trust he will post one to begin with.

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Because you don't have the proof is why, any other time you do not mind posting insults and garbage on open carry. What's the matter, don't like the reputation you tried so hard to build?

Wait! Did someone really just call Walking Wolf a keyboard commando?

I think he just destroyed whatever credibility he had.

Oh, my. Talk about self-inflicted wounds.

WalkingWolf said:

You know how this works by now, YOU MADE THE CLAIM, YOU PROVIDE THE CITATION. Otherwise you just made it up, not really a keyboard commando, just a person who tells stories that are not true.

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I agree he needs to post the video come on g21sfpistol lets see it.

I'm calling BS. He doesn't have it

J_dazzle23 said:

I'm calling bs. No offense. You can't call someone a keyboard commando then not post your own.

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+1

Rob Pincus did a video on this a couple years back. I don't remember how he concealed (I think it was simply a vest covering it, but not positive) but the CC draw was 0.5 seconds slower iirc. Note that this was someone who was concealing as lightly as possible, was waiting for the buzzer to draw, and had both hands ready for the draw. This is important because when I'm in a real world situation and not simply on the firing line I often don't have both hands free, nor do I use a CC vest to conceal. If I'm out I'm normally out for a reason and thus have a basket, cart, etc for whatever I'm out for, in addition to having kids that I'm often either holding or holding on to. Thus in a real world setting and not lab conditions, my OC draw is going to be even faster than this.

And I tried searching for the video but I couldn't find it. Granted I didn't try searching too hard given that I think the guy is a pompous [edited] and I have no desire to watch his crap, but he's the only one I know of that has done a timed video of drawing from both OC and CC.

Troll is troll.

Just look at any IDPA match video. IDPA requires concealment for most stages. Watch the pros, and you will see that an unfastened vest is the fastest draw from concealment. Now watch the same pros when the stage does not require concealment. The vest comes off, every time.

Watch the same pro, and do your own timing, and you'll find your quantitative answer.

Now, that said, it means little in the real world. Most actual defensive carry (concealed or open) is done with other things rightly taking a higher priority than draw speed. When was the last defensive shooting that took place at high noon on Main Street with the good guy having to outdraw the bad guy?

Citizen said:

Wait! Did someone really just call Walking Wolf a keyboard commando?

I think he just destroyed whatever credibility he had.

Oh, my. Talk about self-inflicted wounds.

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Agreed. I've had disagreements with WW, if not a dozen members here, but they weren't Earth-shattering. I may not always agree with you, but I still admire and respect you all.

Come on, g21sfpistol: Pony up. You made the claim, you light the flame.

since9 said:

Agreed. I've had disagreements with WW, if not a dozen members here, but they weren't Earth-shattering. I may not always agree with you, but I still admire and respect you all.

Come on, g21sfpistol: Pony up. You made the claim, you light the flame.

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I'm in for this. I'd like to see some flame behind that hot air.

Found the video. It was ~0.2 seconds, but the OC was at the 4-5 clock while the CC was at the 1-2 clock position with a loose shirt over it (I carry open or concealed at the 1-2 clock position and imo any tests should be done from where you would carry. He also says that the OC is at the 3 o'clock position but if you look it's clear that it is past that, which can slow someone down). He also gives the standard BS excuse for why OC=bad and even extends it to being bad in one's home. As I said, I'm not a fan of him and I feel the video is bleh for various reasons, but it's the only one I know of that shows a time difference measured via a shot timer.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...carry-pincus-on-the-open-vs-concealed-debate/

He is taking the needed time to edit the video to show what he claims it will show.

OC for ME said:

He is taking the needed time to edit the video to show what he claims it will show.

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I disagree. In my experience, those with a Doctorate in BS have almost zero penchant for other real and tangible tasks. I am willing to wager that Paul Blart aka "he who can draw faster concealed" is such a character. The incredible amounts of troll guano being excreted is surely a drain on the brain matter. :lol:

Aknazer said:

Found the video. It was ~0.2 seconds, but the OC was at the 4-5 clock while the CC was at the 1-2 clock position with a loose shirt over it (I carry open or concealed at the 1-2 clock position and imo any tests should be done from where you would carry. He also says that the OC is at the 3 o'clock position but if you look it's clear that it is past that, which can slow someone down). He also gives the standard BS excuse for why OC=bad and even extends it to being bad in one's home. As I said, I'm not a fan of him and I feel the video is bleh for various reasons, but it's the only one I know of that shows a time difference measured via a shot timer.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...carry-pincus-on-the-open-vs-concealed-debate/

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Errors in Rob Pincus video:

1. "The typical 3 or 4 o'clock position." OC is typically at 3 o'clock, but he's carrying it at his 4 to 5 o'clock position.

2. "When they look over there, then I can go for my firearm." Wrong. If someone bursts into your home, you go for your firearm STAT.

3. "If they see it, they know that I am armed, they know that I have a lethal potential means of defending myself, maybe they decide to shoot me right away..." blah, blah, "...and now I've lost the opportunity to protect my family." Rob Pincus is living in a dream world. He has WAY over-thought this and concludes that "open carry is a disadvantage inside the home. It takes away your tactical advantage..."

I'm going to stop right there because he starts in with the CCer's "tactical advantage" B.S. they must dredge from the septic tank every time they get together in their knitting circles.

Rob: Someone busts into your home waving a gun in your face. Your first move is to drop them dead. Every second you wait greatly increases the likelihood they'll start pulling the trigger.

Rob: Someone busts into your home and starts firing. Your first move is to drop them dead. But Oh, wait! You can't, because they just shot you in your left arm, on which you were relying to pull up your shirt so you can draw your weapon and BANG! The perp's second round went through your head.

Rob Pincus sounds good, but he's not too bright. He's a walking poster child for Qui-gon Jin's comment, "The ability to speak does not make one intelligent." The "element of surprise" he keeps blathering on about is an advantage only when YOU are the one on the offense. The element of surprise is NOT a defensive asset. It's almost always a defensive liability for one simple reason: It requires yet another step, which takes time, greatly reducing the odds of a favorable outcome.

Time to put this his crappy concepts back on ICE.

Yea there's a lot wrong with what he said and the manner in which he did the test, I simply didn't mention any of it since it was already discussed on this forum ages ago and because that isn't what this thread was about.

Aknazer said:

Yea there's a lot wrong with what he said and the manner in which he did the test, I simply didn't mention any of it since it was already discussed on this forum ages ago and because that isn't what this thread was about.

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The thread is about "the average time differntial between cc vs oc when drawing." Rob's comments directly addressed this question, which is why someone brought it into the thread.

It's highly relevant material.