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Thread: TSRA lobbyist thinks police need to be able to stop OCers to check their licenses

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    TSRA lobbyist thinks police need to be able to stop OCers to check their licenses

    At the Combined Law Enforcement Associations of Texas, Charley Wilkison sees trouble. If police see anyone with a gun at 3 a.m., he wrote by email, they “find out why. … The officer needs to be able to ask.”

    ........

    Alice Tripp of the Texas State Rifle Association said that she likes the intent of the amendment as protection for licensees, and considered the concerns “extreme,” but that the wording needs a look.
    Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/opinion...#storylink=cpy

    I am just curious, why have no grassroots groups attempted to take over TSRA and fire their lobbyist?
    Last edited by 44Brent; 04-24-2015 at 04:33 PM.

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    So by same logic....if they see somebody driving a car at 3am they can stop them just to ""see if they have a DL?"
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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    The comment is also facially absurd because the cop can walk up to anyone anytime in public and consensually ask questions. Lots and lots of SCOTUS case law on this point.

    If the replies raise the cop's suspicions, as informed by his experience with criminals as a cop, to a level that meets the minimum legal standard, he can move to a detention--see Terry v Ohio and subsequent rulings. Upon a detention he can seize, in addition to the person, the gun for officer safety until he completes his investigation. See Terry v Ohio. At which point the licensee can show his license.

    Just because a fella practices an enumerated right can be no reason to require him to waive his 4A rights. Alternatively, the way the courts have shredded the 4A, the cops already have plenty of power to investigate.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Yep, that sounds like Ms Tripp.

    I'd love to see the TSRA taken over by a group with common sense.

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    I open carry every day an walk right pass leo. They don't even seem to notice. *shrug* Of course in my state the law says they can not stop and detain me without a reasonable articulated suspicion. Nor are they allowed to stop and ask to see your permit. None of this has been an issue. No blood in the streets, no legally licensed permit holders getting harassed. The only problem I have seen is some people think that it's ok to carry to carry without a permit. Not because they want to be illegal or "ha ha the police can't check me", but just because they don't know the gun laws (basic stupidity-- they don't know what any of our gun laws are).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnbo View Post
    I open carry every day an walk right pass leo. They don't even seem to notice. *shrug* Of course in my state the law says they can not stop and detain me without a reasonable articulated suspicion. Nor are they allowed to stop and ask to see your permit. None of this has been an issue. No blood in the streets, no legally licensed permit holders getting harassed. The only problem I have seen is some people think that it's ok to carry to carry without a permit. Not because they want to be illegal or "ha ha the police can't check me", but just because they don't know the gun laws (basic stupidity-- they don't know what any of our gun laws are).
    LOL YOU may beat the rap, as you brag, but you will not beat the ride - the extra-legal punishment/harassment that often occurs in the backseat cage.

    When I used to transport race cars to Road Atlanta, we travelled only in convoy with an attorney owner, and gave small towns 5 mph on the speed limit. I well remember the stop light in Flowery Branch, remotely controlled by the cop in the filling station on the hill. My most recent line-of-duty/non-consensual interaction, 1977.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44Brent View Post
    Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/opinion...#storylink=cpy

    I am just curious, why have no grassroots groups attempted to take over TSRA and fire their lobbyist?
    Which is one reason why I don't support them financially. Or the NRA for that matter.

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    This is why......

    I am just curious, why have no grassroots groups attempted to take over TSRA and fire their lobbyist?[/QUOTE]

    I worked with this lady in 2007 on car carry without a permit...... HB1815...... She is extremely smart, very strategic and maneuvered the hostile waters in the legislature masterfully!!!! She is not as pro gun as many of us but I noticed she came around on a lot of issues and I believe her incremental approach is paying off..... I see there's wisdom in patience..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count View Post
    I am just curious, why have no grassroots groups attempted to take over TSRA and fire their lobbyist?
    I worked with this lady in 2007 on car carry without a permit...... HB1815...... She is extremely smart, very strategic and maneuvered the hostile waters in the legislature masterfully!!!! She is not as pro gun as many of us but I noticed she came around on a lot of issues and I believe her incremental approach is paying off..... I see there's wisdom in patience..........
    Her skill alone cannot be enough to qualify her... What she is attempting to accomplish is more important than the skill she has to be successful in her attempts. If she isn't attempting to accomplish what's right, that's all the reason in the world to not stand with or support her.

    She's indicated that open carry and constitutional carry are not items she's interested in lobbying for. Moreover, a bill that she has lobbied for contained language that egregiously violated constitutionally protected rights - and I'm not referring to the RKBA.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 04-25-2015 at 09:27 PM. Reason: fixed quote markup
    Advocate freedom please

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    She successfully changed 30.06 language so government buildings that are not otherwise prohibited are open for permit holders back in 2005 or so..... She successfully opened up car carry to everyone who is not otherwise prohibited and passed one of the strongest Castle Doctrines in the nation in 2007..... She is fully behind open carry for permit holders now and will successfully pass it. I even believe Campus carry will pass in its strongest form yet after four failed attempts over the years of weaker bills than this current one...... I think in two years we will have a shot at Constitutional carry or at least an unlicensed open carry........ These are major victories! Many pro gun states still can't carry in government buildings or don't have a Castle doctrine as strong as we do....... The legislature was under the control of Strauss in the House (and still is) and Dewhurst in the Senate for many years...... Dewhurst is gone and Lt Gov Dan Patrick lowered the threshold to bring bills to the floor from 21 to 19.... That is why the Senate is working better now....... I think this is just the beginning......... Only time can tell but we need to take every victory we can get for now and come back for more.......

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    Listing some victories doesn't negate what I said...

    Whatever victories may be attributed to her efforts, I appreciate; that doesn't mean I should defend her in the face of legitimate criticism.
    Advocate freedom please

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    I had my share of arguments years ago with her and I saw that she's the type of person that waits first to see a trend (like many people wanting open carry) and then she will support it....... As opposed to her going around trying to convince people that a change to open carry would be good...... I know we should aim for more..... I hate to attack someone who has done a lot for our gun rights in Texas..... In 1994 Texas had less gun rights than California in some respects...... 20 years later we are way ahead of where we started......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count View Post
    I had my share of arguments years ago with her and I saw that she's the type of person that waits first to see a trend (like many people wanting open carry) and then she will support it....... As opposed to her going around trying to convince people that a change to open carry would be good...... I know we should aim for more..... I hate to attack someone who has done a lot for our gun rights in Texas..... In 1994 Texas had less gun rights than California in some respects...... 20 years later we are way ahead of where we started......
    I would never want someone who used trends to develop their morals. There is really something wrong with that, you are not making a good case for her. Those type of people would stab you in the back for a buck.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 04-26-2015 at 09:46 AM.
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    If the original post attacked Star telegram for being a liberal rag, Police chiefs like Acevedo for lacking critical thinking or breaking their oaths to support the Constitution, or CLEAT that opposes gun rights for civilians and left the TSRA lobbyist out of it, I wouldn't have felt compelled to defend her.......

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    LOL YOU may beat the rap, as you brag, but you will not beat the ride - the extra-legal punishment/harassment that often occurs in the backseat cage.
    Not bragging at all, this is just the law of my state. Leo can not stop you just to check if you have a carry license. I personally have had no issues but I'm sure there are leos out there who will not follow the law. The city or county they work for will face a lawsuit if that's the case. It works pretty well in my state so I'm not sure why you would want leo to violate your 4th amendment rights by saying they have a right to stop you just to check if you have your carry permit.

    You need to lay off the meth if you think leo are sitting at a stop light with a remote controller to switch the lights on you, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    LOL YOU may beat the rap, as you brag, but you will not beat the ride - the extra-legal punishment/harassment that often occurs in the backseat cage.

    When I used to transport race cars to Road Atlanta, we travelled only in convoy with an attorney owner, and gave small towns 5 mph on the speed limit. I well remember the stop light in Flowery Branch, remotely controlled by the cop in the filling station on the hill. My most recent line-of-duty/non-consensual interaction, 1977.
    Oh puh-lease. '77 was thirty some odd years ago, even a good fer nuthin' yankee should be able to grasp the concept of progress.

    I'll concur with Johnbo, we done gots actyual laws now 'bout dem coppers stoppin' peeple 'n' based upon seeing them carrying guns and demanding to see licenses. Take a look at OCGA 16-11-137(b) if you want.

    The people seem to be winning their freedoms back against the police.

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    Pipe dream the following is, if cops knew that their government job was at risk, for even a tiny infraction of a citizen's right, contrary to the law, then cops would not be stopping folks at all unless they saw a real crime in the first place.

    remove QI and exemptions in the law and the 2A would equal unrestricted carry all across the fruited plain, virtually overnight.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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