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Thread: Mayor Rawlings-Blake, “give those who wished to destroy, space to do that.” VIDEO

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    Mayor Rawlings-Blake, “give those who wished to destroy, space to do that.” VIDEO

    What no one expected is what Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake admitted in a press conference on Sunday: that she asked the Baltimore Police Department to “give those who wished to destroy space to do that.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=9_5KQC7k8Lc

    http://fusion.net/story/126587/the-o...troy-property/

    ETA 1223:
    https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl...czt4ssTBQsmNAM 24 articles ATM

    Rawlings-Blake said:
    I’ve made it very clear that I work with the police, and instructed them to do everything that they could to make sure that the protesters could exercise their right to free speech. It’s a very delicate balancing act because while we tried to make sure they were protected from the cars and the other things that were going on, we gave those who wished to destroy space to do that, as well. And we worked very hard to keep that balance and to put ourselves in the best position to deescalate. And that’s what you saw.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 04-27-2015 at 01:25 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Because sometimes, punching the punching bag really does take your anger away. And on the flip side, telling you not to punch the punching bag can only make you angrier.
    Aren't you supposed to buy your own punching bag?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    I certainly am going to encourage all of my friends to invest their capital in Maryland.
    The state and town that respects property rights, has low taxes and allows non-criminal citizens to enjoy 2A.
    If there were 49 other states to choose from, this one, with its business-friendly attitude, is very close to the top!!
    /so
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    This is sweet. First make it very difficult for people to go about armed to protect their businesses (after all you don't need a gun you have the police) then pull the police from protecting them. wahahaha
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    Next week, these same people will be whining about the deplorable state of their neighborhoods, and the lack of local merchants.
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    On another forum, much wider in scope, the suggestion was made to limit EBT card function to registered home 'hoods - homiez hood. "Alert! This EBT card is not authorized for use in this area. The attempt has been reported. Subsequent attempts will result in automatic confiscation of the EBT card."
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    This is sweet. First make it very difficult for people to go about armed to protect their businesses (after all you don't need a gun you have the police) then pull the police from protecting them. wahahaha
    And, cause the social tensions leading up to the unrest. And, supply the spark to ignite the keg.

    While I can blame the rioters for attacking the wrong targets, I blame the government the most for setting up the situation and then detonating it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Heard about this on the news. The only response I could think of is, "You can't fix stupid."
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    And, cause the social tensions leading up to the unrest. And, supply the spark to ignite the keg.

    While I can blame the rioters for attacking the wrong targets, I blame the government the most for setting up the situation and then detonating it.
    As in intentionally "setting up the situation"?

    Or as in not providing a means of actually parenting several generation so that they grow up to be productive citizens as opposed to welfate leeches? (And the old saw about only about 10% of those who live in those neighborhoods being leeches and crooks - has that dropped by the wayside?)

    Why does one demographic see the way to protest both real and perceived insults is by committing arson and burglary and assault, when so many other demographics faced with the same ill treatment find other, less destructive, ways to indicate their displeasure?

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As in intentionally "setting up the situation"?

    Or as in not providing a means of actually parenting several generation so that they grow up to be productive citizens as opposed to welfate leeches? (And the old saw about only about 10% of those who live in those neighborhoods being leeches and crooks - has that dropped by the wayside?)

    Why does one demographic see the way to protest both real and perceived insults is by committing arson and burglary and assault, when so many other demographics faced with the same ill treatment find other, less destructive, ways to indicate their displeasure?

    stay safe.
    Intentionally causing the problems that led up to it. I can't say government was trying to get rioting started (but wouldn't put it past a few of them.)

    Intentional, as in not putting the brakes on rights violations long ago.

    Intentional, as in intentionally inflicting a failed educational system on those communities.

    Intentional, as in luring large numbers of the community into welfare and socialist ideas with pandering campaign promises.

    Etc, etc, etc.

    Government wasn't maybe trying to create a burning city. But, government sure had a big hand in setting up all the little things that went into the powder keg.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Sigh.

    If they were attacking the police, police cars, police buildings, the mayor and city buildings. They might have a point. Destroying the property of those who may be sympathetic with the abuse you have suffered at the hands of the state.....wrong move.

    Sadly they are taught/not taught real history, where the real problems lie, and then are mislead by demagogues.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 04-29-2015 at 09:17 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    How many poor people are out of jobs now because of the riots? Burning down a CVS doesn't hurt the owner of CVS very much. Insurance pays the losses, and he's rich with or without that store. But how many people worked at that store that lived in that neighborhood?

    How many hot dog vendors, janitors, and other cheap labor at Camden Yards missed out on three baseball games worth of work?

    Etc. etc.
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    I LOVE this clip - New Sheriff in town - The Governor!! Dude was violating curfew yelling at the police line last nite - humvee creeps by - Dude was not there! - snatched up - was rumored to be in process of posting bail today!!

    Way to go GOP Governor Hogan!!....

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Intentionally causing the problems that led up to it. I can't say government was trying to get rioting started (but wouldn't put it past a few of them.)

    Intentional, as in not putting the brakes on rights violations long ago.
    Did they do that with the intention of causing the riots - as in that was their declared purpose?

    Intentional, as in intentionally inflicting a failed educational system on those communities.
    So now it's the fault of the schools that people rioted? Maybe because they never learned enough to figure out what would happen to jobs - and opportunities for jobs - if theyy burned down the places where jobs are available? Or they never learned enough about civics/government to know more acceptable ways of protesting the mis-/mal-treatment they were being subjected to?

    Intentional, as in luring large numbers of the community into welfare and socialist ideas with pandering campaign promises.

    Etc, etc, etc.
    When, where, and how are the people who rioted going to be assessed any level of blame for their actions crimes?

    Government wasn't maybe trying to create a burning city. But, government sure had a big hand in setting up all the little things that went into the powder keg.
    But you just said they did so, and that they did so intentionally.

    The American Revolution happened mostly because "The Government" refused to allow the established processes and procedures for protest and redress of (presumed) wrongs to take place. Show me where the oppressed/repressed population of Baltimore rioters even tried to use the established procedures/process. Where are the failed civil rights complaints? Where are the packed city council meeting filled with people complaining about <specific rights violation>?

    Or does the demographic that composed the majority of rioters get a special pass from being required/expected to do those things because they are members of that demographic?

    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 04-30-2015 at 12:37 AM. Reason: typos
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    From a WaPo article http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...y.html?hpid=z1 saying that a prisoner on the other side of the transport van heard what sounded like Freddie banging his head.

    http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w...pssxjvpxdp.jpg

    Apparently not committing a crime is dependent on not suffering the consequences of commiting a crime.

    stay safe.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Instapundit cites a couple of articles that also blame everybody but the rioters:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-blue...del-1430263661

    The Wall Street Journal has an excellent editorial today, explaining how the Baltimore riots demonstrate the utter failure of progressivism in urban America:

    The men and women in charge have been Democrats, and their governing ideas are “progressive.” This model, with its reliance on government and public unions, has dominated urban America as once-vibrant cities such as Baltimore became shells of their former selves. In 1960 Baltimore was America’s sixth largest city with 940,000 people. It has since shed nearly a third of its population and today isn’t in the top 25.

    The dysfunctions of the blue-city model are many, but the main failures are three: high crime, low economic growth and failing public schools that serve primarily as jobs programs for teachers and administrators rather than places of learning.


    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ricas-problem/

    [quote]

    Exactly. John Nolte over at Breitbart has a similar take:

    Baltimore is not America’s problem or shame. That failed city is solely and completely a Democrat problem. Like many failed cities, Detroit comes to mind, and every city besieged recently by rioting, Democrats and their union pals have had carte blanche to inflict their ideas and policies on Baltimore since 1967, the last time there was a Republican Mayor. . . .

    Liberalism and all the toxic government dependence and cronyism and union corruption and failed schools that comes along with it, has run amok in Baltimore for a half-century, and that is Baltimore’s problem. . . .

    Poverty has nothing to do with it. This madness and chaos and anarchy is a Democrat-driven culture that starts at the top with a racially-divisive White House heartbreakingly effective at ginning up hate and violence.

    Nolte’s right: The rioting in Ferguson and Baltimore isn’t driven by poverty, race, or even police brutality. It’s driven by progressive culture, which teaches that successful business people “didn’t build that,” accepts abortion/divorce/children out of wedlock as normal behavior, proclaims that poor children (particularly minorities) cannot succeed, that police and authority in general are the “enemy,” and that law is rigged against minorities. Urban music, “leaders” like Al Sharpton, and a Democrat strategy of balkanizing Americans through identity politics–echoed daily by mainstream media–has created a culture that has no respect for the rule of law. In the eyes of progressives, the American Dream is dead, and they are literally dancing on its grave.

    Until this progressive culture changes (if it ever can) or is marginalized politically, we will have lawless behavior every time these destructive, sociopathic cultural expectations are reinforced by tragedies like the deaths of Michael Brown or Freddie Gray.
    stay safe.
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=skidmark;2139898]Instapundit cites a couple of articles that also blame everybody but the rioters..."

    You mean like Obama's comments that the state (except the rioters, of course) need to do some "soul-searching?"



    Here's a thought: How about the fifty year history of criminals do some soul-searching? How about the rioters (criminal acts of violence against property and persons) do some soul-searching?
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Sigh.

    If they were attacking the police, police cars, police buildings, the mayor and city buildings. They might have a point. Destroying the property of those who may be sympathetic with the abuse you have suffered at the hands of the state.....wrong move.

    Sadly they are taught/not taught real history, where the real problems lie, and then are mislead by demagogues.
    They are not dumb/stupid, why attack the places where the only folks with guns are. Remember the photo from Ferguson MO where one business had visibly armed folks stand ready to defend that business. No, those 't-word' folks are not dumb/stupid.

    Thus, it is directly the fault of government that these disturbances have escalated to the severity that they are today.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    There have been mentions/photos of Baltimore businessmen 'arming' themselves as they could and standing ready to defend their property.
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    Sheriff: ‘I Was Sick To My Stomach’ After Being Told To Stand Down

    "A Maryland sheriff who traveled to Baltimore to help law enforcement stop Monday’s riots told 105.7 The Fan that he was stunned when officers alerted him of the orders to stand down. Michael Lewis is the Sheriff in Wicomico County, and was also a Sergeant with the Maryland State Police. He joined Ed Norris and Steve Davis on Thursday to talk about the controversial orders the police were given during the riots."

    http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/0...city-officers/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Intentional, as in intentionally inflicting a failed educational system on those communities.
    Whoa there. Who inflicted what on whom? Under Jim Crow, segregation, separate but (in)equal you'd have had a point.

    But we're now 60 years after the Brown decision that officially ended educational segregation and some 40 years past effective integration, including forced bussing. Since 1987 (almost 30 years), Baltimore has had 4 black mayor and 1 white mayor. They haven't had a republican mayor since 1967. Of 13 school board members, 5 (including 2 of the 3 top leadership of the board) appear to be black.

    Nobody has imposed any educational system on the people of Baltimore.

    Like most other areas, the school board has given the people what they asked for: dumbed down classes, low standards of discipline, politically correct revisionist history, etc. Heaven forbid anyone's little darling not get an "A" in class just for showing up and breathing. Don't even talk about expelling a kid for anything short of having a gun (real, fake, or imaginary). Don't require children to learn and use proper English grammar or spelling. Don't teach them the difference between successful cultures and those societies that have failed to rise much above the stone age. And certainly don't teach them anything of the greatness and goodness of this nation. Instead, indoctrinate them with victimhood, and (for minorities) hate or (for whites) self-loathing and guilt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Intentional, as in luring large numbers of the community into welfare and socialist ideas with pandering campaign promises.
    THIS is the single greatest evil perpetuated by government against residents of inner cities (and Indian reservations). And I appreciate you using the term "luring" to describe it. While we are forced to pay taxes to support welfare, nobody is forced to accept welfare.

    Yes, the socialists have set a very effective and insidious trap. Yes, the taxing power of government makes that easier to fund than if they had to rely solely upon private charity.

    But let us be clear, this is an evil--the evil of the dole--into which the "victims" have willing (however ignorantly) walked.


    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Government wasn't maybe trying to create a burning city. But, government sure had a big hand in setting up all the little things that went into the powder keg.
    Government is properly blamed for disarming those who would otherwise defend themselves and discourage rioting and looting.

    But I can look around the world and see very similar conduct in lots of places without government (and many others with government), without welfare, with far less education than is available to even the poorest residents of Baltimore. Government didn't burn the city. Government isn't the creator of the conditions that lead to it (though the contributions of the welfare state are significant). What we have here is a particular sub-culture that local government failed to correctly assimilate into the successful American culture. I do not believe the sub-culture is caused by nor limited to any particular race/ethnicity.

    Government certainly played a role here, just as it plays a role in clean water, roads, and postal service. To lay the blame for the evils in the world on government solely or primarily is no more just nor thoughtful than it would be to credit government with all the good things. The problem is people and cultures.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Whoa there. Who inflicted what on whom? Under Jim Crow, segregation, separate but (in)equal you'd have had a point.

    But we're now 60 years after the Brown decision that officially ended educational segregation and some 40 years past effective integration, including forced bussing. Since 1987 (almost 30 years), Baltimore has had 4 black mayor and 1 white mayor. They haven't had a republican mayor since 1967. Of 13 school board members, 5 (including 2 of the 3 top leadership of the board) appear to be black.

    Nobody has imposed any educational system on the people of Baltimore.

    Like most other areas, the school board has given the people what they asked for: dumbed down classes, low standards of discipline, politically correct revisionist history, etc. Heaven forbid anyone's little darling not get an "A" in class just for showing up and breathing. Don't even talk about expelling a kid for anything short of having a gun (real, fake, or imaginary). Don't require children to learn and use proper English grammar or spelling. Don't teach them the difference between successful cultures and those societies that have failed to rise much above the stone age. And certainly don't teach them anything of the greatness and goodness of this nation. Instead, indoctrinate them with victimhood, and (for minorities) hate or (for whites) self-loathing and guilt.



    THIS is the single greatest evil perpetuated by government against residents of inner cities (and Indian reservations). And I appreciate you using the term "luring" to describe it. While we are forced to pay taxes to support welfare, nobody is forced to accept welfare.

    Yes, the socialists have set a very effective and insidious trap. Yes, the taxing power of government makes that easier to fund than if they had to rely solely upon private charity.

    But let us be clear, this is an evil--the evil of the dole--into which the "victims" have willing (however ignorantly) walked.




    Government is properly blamed for disarming those who would otherwise defend themselves and discourage rioting and looting.

    But I can look around the world and see very similar conduct in lots of places without government (and many others with government), without welfare, with far less education than is available to even the poorest residents of Baltimore. Government didn't burn the city. Government isn't the creator of the conditions that lead to it (though the contributions of the welfare state are significant). What we have here is a particular sub-culture that local government failed to correctly assimilate into the successful American culture. I do not believe the sub-culture is caused by nor limited to any particular race/ethnicity.

    Government certainly played a role here, just as it plays a role in clean water, roads, and postal service. To lay the blame for the evils in the world on government solely or primarily is no more just nor thoughtful than it would be to credit government with all the good things. The problem is people and cultures.

    Charles
    While I see both sides to this coin, as tough as it is to swallow the government we have been saddles with, one has to admit that it has given the people exactly what has been asked of it, in some respects.
    Last edited by J_dazzle23; 04-30-2015 at 02:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    While I see both sides to this coin, as tough as it is to swallow the government we have been saddles with, one has to admit that it has given the people exactly what has been asked of it, in some respects.
    Exactly. As much as some might like to blame "government" for all bad things, or assume/claim that no good would come without government, the fact is that our representative democratic republic is still mostly working.

    The problems we face arise primarily over disagreements over what is or isn't a right; what is or isn't the proper function of government; and what conduct society should encourage, what is should discourage, what it must merely tolerate, and what it can and should properly criminalize and punish.

    Most of us recognize the difficultly of getting 5 people to agree on what pizza to order. But some seem to think that in the absence of government grand conflicts and disagreements over how to order society would magically vanish.

    Near as I can tell government has made a few mistakes in Baltimore (and most other inner-cities):

    1-Infringed the right of the people to defend themselves with arms.

    2-Used welfare to encourage--whether deliberately or as an unintended consequence--a host of social ills known to cause poverty and criminal conduct: Out-of-wedlock births, fatherlessness, not working, not valuing nor obtaining education and job skills.

    3-Not figuring out whether to enforce a dominant American culture on the inner city or to leave residents to order their own society. A great argument can be made for either path, but the middle road taken seems to lead to on-going resentment against police/government.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Regular Member Vagrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Exactly. As much as some might like to blame "government" for all bad things, or assume/claim that no good would come without government, the fact is that our representative democratic republic is still mostly working.

    The problems we face arise primarily over disagreements over what is or isn't a right; what is or isn't the proper function of government; and what conduct society should encourage, what is should discourage, what it must merely tolerate, and what it can and should properly criminalize and punish.

    Most of us recognize the difficultly of getting 5 people to agree on what pizza to order. But some seem to think that in the absence of government grand conflicts and disagreements over how to order society would magically vanish.

    Near as I can tell government has made a few mistakes in Baltimore (and most other inner-cities):

    1-Infringed the right of the people to defend themselves with arms.

    2-Used welfare to encourage--whether deliberately or as an unintended consequence--a host of social ills known to cause poverty and criminal conduct: Out-of-wedlock births, fatherlessness, not working, not valuing nor obtaining education and job skills.

    3-Not figuring out whether to enforce a dominant American culture on the inner city or to leave residents to order their own society. A great argument can be made for either path, but the middle road taken seems to lead to on-going resentment against police/government.

    Charles

    I completely disagree with your number 2, the government doesn't make a situation where people don't believe in working, that's ridiculous people's responsibilities towards things are what make people want to work.

    What the government is responsible for Is creating an economic environment that so heavily works against poor people that after a while someone says "why bother?".

    Imagine you don't have alot of money but you save up for a car and buy one, you get it because the job you applied for is 30 min away. You pay for all the licensing, and insurance, well a police officer sees you driving and he just feels like pulling you over for whatever reason, your naturally nervous because you don't know why your being pulled over.

    He comes in and says your tail lights broken even though it's not and charges you a 180 dollar ticket for it, you cannot afford the ticket, you naturally don't know that replacing a tail light would cost you maybe 15 dollars, no one tells you that, same with simply disputing the claim, you don't know this so the month passes and you don't know what to do, you skip your court date because you have to work and so now your in the court system with a fee to your name, well your now in a much worse position caused by the government.

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    They are not dumb/stupid, why attack the places where the only folks with guns are. Remember the photo from Ferguson MO where one business had visibly armed folks stand ready to defend that business. No, those 't-word' folks are not dumb/stupid.

    Thus, it is directly the fault of government that these disturbances have escalated to the severity that they are today.
    That's a good point.

    Especially with the militarization of the local yokels.

    Seems their war on the people continues to work.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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