Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31

Thread: I don't that an OC WOULD HAVE FAIRED TO WELL IN THIS SITATION

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    california
    Posts
    16

    I don't that an OC WOULD HAVE FAIRED TO WELL IN THIS SITATION

    scroll down to quarterbores story

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=46699

  2. #2
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Secret Bunker
    Posts
    2,573
    I predict a visit from the "spelling police" here shortly! Brace, brace, brace, for impact! Sound for collision!
    http://youtu.be/DC6rKwGEmfM
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  3. #3
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Henrico
    Posts
    2,139
    Is English your primary language? Just curious.

    I'm also curious as to what in the world you mean by, "OC WOULD HAVE FAIRED TO WELL IN THIS SITATION."

    Are you saying that the criminal would not have rented a gun and taken hostages had the employee been carrying a specific way?
    Last edited by The Truth; 04-27-2015 at 07:29 PM.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    I predict a visit from the "spelling police" here shortly! Brace, brace, brace, for impact! Sound for collision!
    http://youtu.be/DC6rKwGEmfM
    I prefer the New Jersey!

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    california
    Posts
    16
    Really? Spelling police? Now that is a really mature response. I don't play the Monkey Dance, but feel free! The kid was out to kill people, not rob them. It is not hard to believe an open carrier would have been shot immediately. 3 people and only 1 carrying! A process predator instead of a resource predator. He was out to kill people, not rob them. The guy himself said he believed he would of been immediately shot had he been open carry. Now, if all three were carrying, I don't think this Situation would have unfolded. I apologize for the capitals and mispelling. Sometimes these note pads are difficult to correct mistakes.
    Last edited by wisardd1; 04-27-2015 at 06:30 PM.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,628
    A 1999 incident, posted on another forum seven (7) years ago is hardly a "Hot Topic." In fact I would call it old news at best.

    Moving this to the General Discussion sub-forum.

    Correct spelling and good grammer help to make one's post(s) better understood.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,164
    LOL Thanks. Use the Force, Luke, use your spiel checker.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756
    Quote Originally Posted by wisardd1 View Post
    Really? Spelling police? Now that is a really mature response. I don't play the Monkey Dance, but feel free! The kid was out to kill people, not rob them. It is not hard to believe an open carrier would have been shot immediately. 3 people and only 1 carrying! A process predator instead of a resource predator. He was out to kill people, not rob them. The guy himself said he believed he would of been immediately shot had he been open carry. Now, if all three were carrying, I don't think this Situation would have unfolded. I apologize for the capitals and mispelling. Sometimes these note pads are difficult to correct mistakes.
    It is also not hard to believe that had all the employees been open carrying the guy would have decided to not come back and shoot people especially since....

    according to quarterboregunner's account of the event (scroll down)

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=46699

    the guy came in and then left.... then returned. So it is possible that had all the employees been open carrying they guy could have decided to not come back and open carry's deterrent effect could have prevented the entire situation in the first place.

    So perhaps what this incident shows is concealed carry is only reactive after the attack has already begun and doesn't do anything to deter a criminal.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 04-27-2015 at 06:51 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  9. #9
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Henrico
    Posts
    2,139
    Quote Originally Posted by wisardd1 View Post
    Really? Spelling police? Now that is a really mature response.
    Your errors are not just in spelling but syntax, which makes it difficult to be able to tell what exactly you're trying to say.

    The kid was out to kill people, not rob them. It is not hard to believe an open carrier would have been shot immediately.
    First of all, it's a shooting range. I don't think you truly believe that mode of carry was a part of this kid's thought process. What about the people in the actual range who were live firing when he took some practice shots? There's a bit of a logical disconnect with your claim. Was OC allowed inside the range? If so, why didn't the kid choose a range which did not allow OC? Your bias is showing.

    Another person shot him with non-lethal rounds. I guess he used a slingshot?

    The guy himself said he believed he would of been immediately shot had he been open carry.
    Who?

    Now, if all three were carrying, I don't think this Situation would have unfolded. I apologize for the capitals and mispelling. Sometimes these note pads are difficult to correct mistakes.
    As far as I can tell, no innocents were injured. What's the issue? It was an ambush by a mentally deficient individual who wanted to die. He had plenty of opportunities to kill people and didn't. His wanting to kill others seems like a bluff to me. He didn't have the nads when it came down to actually doing anything. Seems to me his plan was to kill then kill himself for attention. He didn't have it in him to kill someone else, so how could he kill himself?
    Last edited by The Truth; 04-27-2015 at 07:31 PM.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  10. #10
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    It is also not hard to believe that had all the employees been open carrying the guy would have decided to not come back and shoot people especially since....

    according to quarterboregunner's account of the event (scroll down)

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=46699

    the guy came in and then left.... then returned. So it is possible that had all the employees been open carrying they guy could have decided to not come back and open carry's deterrent effect could have prevented the entire situation in the first place.

    So perhaps what this incident shows is concealed carry is only reactive after the attack has already begun and doesn't do anything to deter a criminal.
    IMO correct, the employee's appeared to be unarmed victims. Nobody knows if he saw armed employees whether he still would have made the attempt. What other gun ranges were there in the area, were there employees openly armed?

    In Aurora, Co the shooter picked the only theater that was posted in the area. Actually passing by non posted theaters.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Southeast, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    5,974
    This one time, at band camp ... therefore no one should play the piccolo.

    It was an interesting read. Yes, he might have been shot at the beginning if he had been OC. The BG may not have attempted the crime if people had been OC. This, that and the other.

    The OC/CC discussion is no different than the carry/don't carry discussion. Show me how to determine with 100% accuracy every time in my life, if any, that my carrying a firearm will make a positive difference and I won't have to mess with it the other days. By the same token, also tell me every time that OC or CC makes a difference in how positive the outcome and I'll know how to carry that day.

    We just don't know. We have no way of knowing when, if or how a situation will arise in our lives that carrying a firearm will matter. And if we don't even know if, when or how it will arise, how the heck would we know the most advantageous way to carry that day?

    It is best for people to go armed as they will where they will and the average will sort out things. Personally, now I typically dress for the weather and then figure out what gun/carry method matches my outfit.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  12. #12
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,887
    yawn...filed under 'W' for WHO CARES about what ifs this olde...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    Quote Originally Posted by wisardd1 View Post
    Not even sure what you're trying to say, but I don't know of anyone who has said there aren't risks. Yes you "could" be targeted because of OCing, but that has yet to happen and be successful. So you have weigh the risk of being targeted for OCing (which outside of crazy people I haven't even seen an attempt on an OCer specifically because they were OCing), or do you look like a victim and risk being mistaken for one? Currently the odds are in favor of the OCer being left alone. Also the next thing is the force multiplier question. If they see a single person OCing they "might" do the whole "take him out first" bit, but what if he sees multiple people OCing? Again, short of being crazy or doing suicide by another's gun, he's going to know he can't realistically remove all of the threats and thus choose somewhere else.

    So to reiterate, sure you might get targeted for OCing, but you also might get targeted because you look like an unarmed victim (by CCing). Currently the odds are in favor of the OCer being left alone by a criminal more than a CCer being left alone by a criminal. I think I'll take my chances with OCing.

  14. #14
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Secret Bunker
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I prefer the New Jersey!
    Ok -
    Here you go. At the 8:30 mark the big guns start their salvo

    http://youtu.be/Zv0Avc8UrhU
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  15. #15
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Secret Bunker
    Posts
    2,573

    I don't that an OC WOULD HAVE FAIRED TO WELL IN THIS SITATION

    I call BS - nice 1st post by another CA drive by keyboard typo commando.... CC is the best - looky, looky... Must have been a slow day over on the police one forum???

    Fork you & the whole heap of goons that troll this forum.
    http://youtu.be/dv8tVxk6Nj4
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 04-27-2015 at 11:53 PM.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  16. #16
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    I think concealment has a very important role, as in conceal yourself behind cover once the lead starts to fly.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  17. #17
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,318
    Seems to me like, if I'm to be worried about being targeted, the most effective solution would be to start wearing armor. I think one can get some soft armor pretty inexpensively these days.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 04-28-2015 at 11:05 AM.
    Advocate freedom please

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Ok -
    Here you go. At the 8:30 mark the big guns start their salvo

    http://youtu.be/Zv0Avc8UrhU
    Ah yes, but what is the naval designation of the USS New Jersey?

    (it's more like 5:20, btw)

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,164
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Ah yes, but what is the naval designation of the USS New Jersey? (it's more like 5:20, btw)
    I used to ride bicycle occasionally with an elderly gentleman that styled himself as the last BB-62 "engineroom chief." I had no reason to doubt him, he was definitely a tough old bird. He delighted in yanking up his shorts, waay up, to show any 'young lady' his bicycle tattoos.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I used to ride bicycle occasionally with an elderly gentleman that styled himself as the last BB-62 "engineroom chief." I had no reason to doubt him, he was definitely a tough old bird. He delighted in yanking up his shorts, waay up, to show any 'young lady' his bicycle tattoos.
    I was allowed to go anywhere I wanted on the ship the last time I was up there, and I forgot (dammit!!) to ask to see the engine room/prop shafts.

    I got to climb all the way from the bottom of one of the 16" barbettes (where the powder was stored) to the top, and out onto the deck, though!!
    Last edited by BB62; 04-28-2015 at 12:59 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    mayberry, nc
    Posts
    2,258
    first off it was in California. I really don't give a rats azz what happens in CA. IMHO, the whole state is a sewer dump

    yeah, I know what you mean by the pads. you really have to re-read the post before you send it.

    third if this had happened at any of the ranges around here, he would have been well ventilated ( by more then one employee). all of them carry open
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I think concealment has a very important role, as in conceal yourself behind cover once the lead starts to fly.
    Agreed.

    As to the 16-year-old incident... *yawn*
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Note that the victim, by his own admission, planned and trained with the explicit assumption that "if the BG knows I am armed he will shoot me first."

    Given his expectations, given his tactical approach, and given that he luckily came out on top, it's no surprise whatsoever that the event played out to confirm his preconceptions.

    But what does that tell us? I can report that, around the country, the vast majority of gun store and shooting range employees OC. Most places, everyone on staff is visibly armed (or they make little effort to conceal).

    Clearly, most gun store and shooting range employees feel that a visible deterrent is a good idea given the attractiveness of their merchandise to criminals. They probably suspect that pretending to walk around unarmed will only attract people looking for easy guns.

    In this case, if he's so sure the guy thought they were all unarmed, would he have attacked at all had he known he would face at least three armed employees (as any responsible gun store would require most of those present to be armed, IMO)? A gun which he knows to be susceptible to jams is OK for corralling "human cattle", but not confidence inspiring if your notion is to start a gunfight.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Note that the victim, by his own admission, planned and trained with the explicit assumption that "if the BG knows I am armed he will shoot me first."
    On several occasions while OCing, I've received that "oh crap" vibe from others, and a much more rare vibe sizing me up for a confrontation. I've long since found a (pardon the pun) disarming demeanor usually deflated the issue.

    Given his expectations, given his tactical approach, and given that he luckily came out on top, it's no surprise whatsoever that the event played out to confirm his preconceptions.
    Self-fulfilling prophecies are more common than we realize, particularly when human emotions are involved.

    Clearly, most gun store and shooting range employees feel that a visible deterrent is a good idea given the attractiveness of their merchandise to criminals. They probably suspect that pretending to walk around unarmed will only attract people looking for easy guns.
    Reasonable, given about 10,000 years of recorded history...

    In this case, if he's so sure the guy thought they were all unarmed, would he have attacked at all had he known he would face at least three armed employees (as any responsible gun store would require most of those present to be armed, IMO)? A gun which he knows to be susceptible to jams is OK for corralling "human cattle", but not confidence inspiring if your notion is to start a gunfight.
    Reliability was my primary criteria when choosing my current carry piece. Reasonable knock-down power, magazine capacity, and handgrip fit and feel were the other factors.

    An ancillary benefit is the fact that a full-sized all-steel black semi-automatic weapon in a tactical holster seems to convey a fairly clear message. The problem is, there's always the very rare off-chance that some lunatic might do something stupid. Clearly, no one's trying to start something. However, no one wan't gun jams. That's just not fun!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    I think we should start a competing meme - if a bad guy can't see that you're armed, more likely than not you'll be the first one attacked.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •