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Thread: Bad Arlington LEO Encounter

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Bad Arlington LEO Encounter

    I have never heard of this: Investigative Detention because a citizen wearing a vest could be mistaken for tactical gear?

    Virginia Cop Detains Washington D.C. Television News Videographer, Fearing Camera Vest Could be Tactical Gear
    A Virginia police officer detained a television news videographer Tuesday because his camera vest could have been tactical gear.

    The incident was captured on cell phone video by veteran investigator reporter Russ Ptacek from WUSA9, who posted it on Twitter along with photos of the detainment. The video is posted below.

    The cop was from the Arlington County Police Department, part of the Washington D.C. metropolitan area.
    Apparently, the County is refusing to release the LEO's name.


    Hands up -- Please don't shoot?

    WUSA9 has more:

    Police order WUSA9 photographer to stop recording
    How does the government balance security with the First Amendment? Not very well, according to our test attempting to shoot video from public spaces of government buildings.
    But this is what's discouraging:
    On my Facebook page, many are siding with the officer, saying security should be given higher consideration than the Constitution.
    The Sheeple speak!

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Larger photo


    Hands Up -- Please Don't Shoot?

    Take a good look -- does he seem like a threat to you?

    And how many of you are vested? Especially during hunting season?

    Oh, and look closely -- doesn't it seem like Officer Friendly is using his hand to obscure his name tag?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    [ ... ] But this is what's discouraging: The Sheeple speak!
    The sheeple roar! The sheeple roar for security. A flop and three squares a day and they would be happy.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    This smells to high heaven. VA's lakes and streams teem with "tactical" vests during fishing season.

    Something else is going on.
    Last edited by Citizen; 04-27-2015 at 06:23 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    This smells to high heaven. VA's lakes and streams teem with "tactical" vests during fishing season.

    Something else is going on.
    I don't know what's going on and Arlington isn't talking. Here's the video:
    https://twitter.com/russptacek/statu...57181646778370

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    He sure looked threatened - had that right hand clutching his name tag in fear...


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    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Notice his accent. He's not from Virginia... rather from either New York City or the Boston area. This has been happening more frequently in the Northern Virginia area, according to what one police officer with whom I spoke told me. He told me that there is active recruiting of people from up north to LEO positions down here. This could be a problem since those northerners are not well versed in Virginia culture and tradition.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 04-28-2015 at 08:01 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Gonna get a lot more cops from Baltimore next week....


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    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Notice his accent. He's not from Virginia... rather from either New York City or the Boston area. This has been happening more frequently in the Northern Virginia area, according to what one police officer with whom I spoke told me. He told me that there is active recruiting of people from up north to LEO positions down here. This could be a problem since those northerners are not well versed in Virginia culture and tradition.
    ...how about Virginia law?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Never go north of the Ni..Never go north of the Ni..Never go north of the Ni..Never go north of the Ni..Never go north of the Ni.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ...how about Virginia law?
    One would hope they're given a good dose of this in the academies. But I imagine some just have a bias against armed citizens based upon the things they picked up in the areas in which they were raised.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Notice his accent. He's not from Virginia... rather from either New York City or the Boston area. This has been happening more frequently in the Northern Virginia area, according to what one police officer with whom I spoke told me. He told me that there is active recruiting of people from up north to LEO positions down here. This could be a problem since those northerners are not well versed in Virginia culture and tradition.
    Good to know. Thanks.

    Well ... bad to know.

    Well, you know what I mean.

  13. #13
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    I have been hearing a lot of bad things about Arlington PD. Is this a new thing or have they always been like this??

    https://www.youtube.com/?spfreload=10
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Time to have some open carry events in Arlington.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Notice his accent. He's not from Virginia... rather from either New York City or the Boston area. This has been happening more frequently in the Northern Virginia area, according to what one police officer with whom I spoke told me. He told me that there is active recruiting of people from up north to LEO positions down here. This could be a problem since those northerners are not well versed in Virginia culture and tradition.
    I would opine that its far worse than "not well versed in Virginia culture and tradition." Its more like their worldview with regard to freedom in general and firearms in particular is 180 degrees opposed to ours. And they have the power and general immunity to inflict that worldview on the rest of us. Don't misunderstand, this isn't an anti-police rant, but an observation about a subset of individuals who demonstrate behavior problematic to our freedom.

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    Damn Yankees!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    I don't know what's going on and Arlington isn't talking. Here's the video:
    https://twitter.com/russptacek/statu...57181646778370
    Leo--" I don't have to explain anything to you...

    The arrogance and ignorance of this and most LEO is simply unbelievable..


    How many hours do LEO in the police academy spend studying the constitution?

    The 1st, 2nd 4th 5th and 14th are pretty basic and any layperson with half a brain should be able to ascertain
    the basic meaning of each.. However the average LEO seem to have a problem with these basic rights of our rule of law...

    My .02
    CCJ
    Last edited by countryclubjoe; 04-28-2015 at 10:08 PM.
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Leo--" I don't have to explain anything to you...

    The arrogance and ignorance of this and most LEO is simply unbelievable..


    How many hours do LEO in the police academy spend studying the constitution?

    The 1st, 2nd 4th 5th and 14th are pretty basic and any layperson with half a brain should be able to ascertain
    the basic meaning of each.. However the average LEO seem to have a problem with these basic rights of our rule of law...

    My .02
    CCJ
    Actually, as we all know, the only thing a LEO has to explain to you is that you are or are not free to go.

    It may suck strong enough to keep us from floating off into space but that's the way it is.

    If the LEO explains that you are free to go, do so. NOW! Any conversation you may want to have with him can be scheduled with his supervisor at some later time.

    It the LEO explains that you are not free to go, shut up and do what he says. In Virginia you can identify yourself by stating your name and the political jurisdiction where you reside. If the LEO takes you to be booked they will inventory your property and probably will come across your state-issued ID document at that time. If you don't have a state-issued ID document and refuse to identify yourself you can expect to wait until the FBI comfirms that the fingerprints the LEA sent match up with you.

    If you are not free to go and the LEO takes you to be booked a magistrate will eventually explain what you are charged with and how you may, possibly, be let go before your first appearance in court.

    Why do people insist that LEOs shoud/ought to/need to explain anything other than you are free to go/you are not free to go?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Actually, as we all know, the only thing a LEO has to explain to you is that you are or are not free to go.

    It may suck strong enough to keep us from floating off into space but that's the way it is.

    If the LEO explains that you are free to go, do so. NOW! Any conversation you may want to have with him can be scheduled with his supervisor at some later time.

    It the LEO explains that you are not free to go, shut up and do what he says. In Virginia you can identify yourself by stating your name and the political jurisdiction where you reside. If the LEO takes you to be booked they will inventory your property and probably will come across your state-issued ID document at that time. If you don't have a state-issued ID document and refuse to identify yourself you can expect to wait until the FBI comfirms that the fingerprints the LEA sent match up with you.

    If you are not free to go and the LEO takes you to be booked a magistrate will eventually explain what you are charged with and how you may, possibly, be let go before your first appearance in court.

    Why do people insist that LEOs shoud/ought to/need to explain anything other than you are free to go/you are not free to go?

    stay safe.
    Skid

    You are correct, however, can a citizen be arrested after being detained for pleading the 5th?

    Officer--- We have a call about a suspicious person walking down the street open carrying and you fit the description. Do you have any ID? What is your name?

    Citizen--- Aim I being detained?
    Officer--- Yes, until I see some ID
    Citizen--- I reserve all my rights under the constitution especially my 5th Amendment right to remain silent until I can consul with my attorney...

    So Skid, please play officer for us and proceed... Thank you Skid.

    Regards

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by markand View Post
    Time to have some open carry events in Arlington.
    How do you go about planning something like that? I'm not in that locale currently, I'm planning a visit, and I can think of a weekend when you could have a large visitor presence. I'd be open to discussing it more if you're interested. PM me if you'd lime.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markand View Post
    I would opine that its far worse than "not well versed in Virginia culture and tradition." Its more like their worldview with regard to freedom in general and firearms in particular is 180 degrees opposed to ours. And they have the power and general immunity to inflict that worldview on the rest of us. Don't misunderstand, this isn't an anti-police rant, but an observation about a subset of individuals who demonstrate behavior problematic to our freedom.
    I agree and well put.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  22. #22
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Thing is during this time of year, I frequently wear a journalists vest over a T-shirt or golf shirt. I fail to see how such a garment could be construed as suspect by an LEO.

    As for Arlington police, about 12 years ago I heard some rather interesting things going on with them that were certainly less than legal. There was a pretty high level of confidence in my source so I suspect what I was hearing was true. And not only the police. Their vote counting was tainted as was at least one long standing county board member in her personal dealings with her real estate holdings.

    Arlington is not squeaky clean by any measure.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  23. #23
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    ...

    Why do people insist that LEOs should/ought to/need to explain anything other than you are free to go/you are not free to go?

    stay safe.
    Please cite what a cop must do under VA law when he arrests you.

    I'll go first just to be fair.
    Arrest.

    RSMo 544.180. An arrest is made by an actual restraint of the person of the defendant, or by his submission to the custody of the officer, under authority of a warrant or otherwise. The officer must inform the defendant by what authority he acts, and must also show the warrant if required.
    It may be useful, at a later date, to have that cop's justification, at the time of your arrest, on tape, so that your conversation with that cop's supervisor, at a later date, is just a wee bit more productive.

    Now, VA, may permit their cops to arrest anyone without ever saying a word other than to order you to stop resisting.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Skid

    You are correct, however, can a citizen be arrested after being detained for pleading the 5th?

    Officer--- We have a call about a suspicious person walking down the street open carrying and you fit the description. Do you have any ID? What is your name?

    Citizen--- Aim I being detained?
    Officer--- Yes, until I see some ID
    Citizen--- I reserve all my rights under the constitution especially my 5th Amendment right to remain silent until I can consul with my attorney...

    So Skid, please play officer for us and proceed... Thank you Skid.

    Regards

    CCJ

    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Please cite what a cop must do under VA law when he arrests you.

    I'll go first just to be fair.It may be useful, at a later date, to have that cop's justification, at the time of your arrest, on tape, so that your conversation with that cop's supervisor, at a later date, is just a wee bit more productive.

    Arrest.

    RSMo 544.180. An arrest is made by an actual restraint of the person of the defendant, or by his submission to the custody of the officer, under authority of a warrant or otherwise. The officer must inform the defendant by what authority he acts, and must also show the warrant if required.

    Now, VA, may permit their cops to arrest anyone without ever saying a word other than to order you to stop resisting.
    Joe - you first:

    First, "fitting the description" is RAS for detaining you, and being detained is in fact being arrested.

    Second - Va law requires you to identify yourself when demanded to do so. If necessary the cops will hold you (incarcerate you) until they do establish your identity. The easiest way is to take your fingerprints and send them off to the FBI. There is nothing that forces them to send your prints electronically, and nothing that allows the LEA or the FBI to assign any priority higher than "regular" to the request for comparison. Could take a week or so.

    More importantly, how do you see identifying yourself as incriminating yourself?

    http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinio...wp/2250992.pdf

    "The "principle embodied by the phrase 'free to leave' means the ability to ignore the police and to walk away from them," to "'feel free to decline the officers' requests or otherwise terminate the encounter.'" United States v. Wilson, 953 F.2d 116, 122 (4th Cir. 1991) (quoting Florida v. Bostick, 501 U.S. 429, 436 (1991)). "Fourth Amendment scrutiny is triggered, however, the moment an encounter 'loses its consensual nature.'" Id. (quoting Bostick, 501 U.S. at 434).

    Detective Langford's request for Piggott's identification initiated a consensual encounter and implicated no Fourth Amendment interest. However, the consensual aspect of the encounter ceased when Detective Langford retained Piggott's identification while he ran a warrant check. A reasonable person in Piggott's circumstances would not have believed that he could terminate the encounter and walk away. By retaining Piggott's identification, Detective Langford implicitly commanded Piggott to stay. See Hodnett v. Commonwealth, 32 Va.App. 684, 691-92, 530 S.E.2d 433, 436 (2000). Thus, for Fourth Amendment purposes, Piggott was then "seized" by Detective Langford. See Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 16 (1968). "In order to justify such a seizure, an officer must have a 'reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal activity on the part of the defendant.'" Hatcher v. Commonwealth, 14 Va. App. 487, 490, 419 S.E.2d 256, 258 (1992) (quoting Commonwealth v. Holloway, 9 Va. App. 11, 15, 384 S.E.2d 99, 101 (1989)).

    The circumstances in this case gave Detective Langford no objectively reasonable basis for suspecting that Piggott was engaged in criminal activity. Detective Langford had no information to such effect, nor had he observed any criminal behavior. Piggott cooperated and willingly gave his correct identification.

    Because Detective Langford's encounter with Piggott ceased to be consensual, and because the circumstances provided no lawful basis for further detention, Piggott was seized in violation of his Fourth Amendment rights."

    See Also: Oregon v. Thompkin (2006)
    OC for ME - you are next:

    Who gives a flying [expletive delated] what the law is in Missouri when the question was for a citation to Virginia law? We already have one Connecticutt yanke telling us how to do things properly; we do not need a Border Ruffian joining forces with he whose name shall not be uttered.

    I have not looked but I'll bet "this badge on my shirt" is sufficient authority until the actual charge is written. I would be very happy for you to provide MO case law proving me wrong.

    sty safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    SNIP
    Second - Va law requires you to identify yourself when demanded to do so.

    Something must have changed since I last looked. Do you have the cite for that?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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