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Thread: Army seeks gun industry help on M4 carbine in tacit admission of rifle’s flaws

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tricorn's Avatar
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    Army seeks gun industry help on M4 carbine in tacit admission of rifle’s flaws

    "The Army is asking the gun industry to build new components for its soldiers’ primary weapon — the M4 carbine — a move that experts say is a tacit admission that the service has been supplying a flawed rifle that lacks the precision of commercially available guns.
    At a recent Capitol Hill hearing, an Army general acknowledged that the M4’s magazine has been responsible for the gun jamming during firefights."

    Army seeks gun industry help on M4 carbine in tacit admission of rifle’s flaws
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rbine-in-taci/

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I asked a friend of mine who's still in the thick of it. He's never heard of this problem.
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    I am a Viet Nam Era Navy veteran and well recall the bitching from before my time about the Stoner/ArmaLite/Colt design, and it still goes on. The names change but the game's the same. And I recall the envious high regard for Kalashnikov's design.

    For most of my four years of submarine sea duty, we were armed for self-defense with the 870, Thompson M1A1 (30 inches?) and M1911 for their compact firepower. Then the Stoner design was forced on the force. Imagine trying to run through a submarine with a more than yard long weapon.

    We looved to burn ammo. Our cooks distrusted ultra-pasturized milk in the one-teat plastic cows and donated them as targets for use as soon as we were out of sight of land.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    . Then the Stoner design was forced on the force.
    .
    As was most every weapons system

    The M16 system has been standard issue for 50 years or so the Grand was in standard issue for maybe 20 the M14 less than that not that some haven't been use for a longer time period.

    But the M16 system has served as the standard issue for longer then either of them.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 04-29-2015 at 07:25 AM.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    90 improvements and it still sucks?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    From what I'm reading it is NOT the weapon platform but the accessories that are causing problems.

    The problems with the M-16 jamming came from both a design flaw (lack of chroming for certain parts) and the need for ultra-high maintenance + the military's fascination with white-glove cleaning. Most of that has been fixed.

    The military, so I've heard, has added/allowed PMAGs to be added to the official supply train. Anybody that will not change out the stamped aluminum troublemakers pretty much deserves what they get.

    The .mil is seeking a "replacement" for the current M-4 that can be built on the existing framework, as opposed to needing to pay for complete retooling. As I see it the .mil is just flat out refusing to acknowlege that everybody else is moving away from Eugene Stoner's design. It's a matter of pride over practicallity. (Their pride took a massive hit when they were forced to accept the Euroweenie 9mm as the NATO pistol caliber. They were assuaged by having the 5.56 assigned as the NATO rifle caliber.)

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I find it refreshing to see the gov't looking to the open private market for solutions. Also, one can't blame Stoner for the M4 anymore than one can blame Browning for the long unreliability of compact 1911s. That isn't what they designed. However, the private market played around with the "bones" of a good concept and eventually figured out the details of making dozens of versions based on the original concepts. It is an evolution and for gun enthusiasts, that is a good thing.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    The AR-15 is fundamentally a sound design.

    Government can bungle anything, however.

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