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Thread: Interesting issue in Hanover

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Interesting issue in Hanover

    I went to Starbucks this afternoon and wasn't wearing my gun. it was on the car seat and I left it there. It was hot and that little navy blue car gets hot as the fires of hell in the sun, so I left the windows cracked..about 4 inches.

    Anyway, I was sitting up front where I could see it just outside the door and a plain black car with a spotlight and the telltale antennas pulled up beside it. The cop got out and started walking around my car looking in. I had my Zoom 6 recorder on and was prepping it for an interview so I hit record and went out.

    Another marked car pulled up and a young female Deputy whom I'd talked to before and has always (Including today) been pleasant.

    The male deputy said "is this your car"?
    "yes, is there a problem"
    "I'm, here about the gun on the seat"

    Anyway, the usual got ID, not going to show it to you.

    At one point he kept saying a child could reach in and grab it......which wasn't true.

    I told him that wasn't his job and he said "My job is what I say it is"

    Oh really...."That's not true" "Your Job is to uphold the constitution of Virginia and enforce the code of Virginia".

    He kept looking at the Zoom 6 which is a large professional recorder, like it was a snake.

    Toward the last of the conversation, I said "Am I free to leave (although despite Users counseling I had no intention of going anywhere).

    His answer was a little amusing ...."Yes you are free to leave, that would be awesome".
    I rolled up the windows to about 2 inches and they went away.

    I'll file the FOIA in person tomorrow to see how this was logged.

    While Hanover has improved by leaps and bounds over the last few years....it has a lot of baggage.

  2. #2
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    "My job is what I say it is." I swear, I wish RKBA groups or civil liberties groups had a fund for billboards. Comments like that cop's need to go up on a high-visibility billboard with the cop's name below.


    <chuckle>

    Corn for wild pigs.

    Stale bread and pastry for bears.

    Guns for arrogant cops. I woulda thought donuts, myself. But, whatever brings 'em in.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-06-2015 at 05:44 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Baiting the field again Peter?

    Course I unnerstand that you are not forcing them to eat what you cast, but there are those that are so pre-dict-able.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Baiting the field again Peter?

    Course I unnerstand that you are not forcing them to eat what you cast, but there are those that are so pre-dict-able.
    If my hunch is correct, the story might get a little more interesting. Stay tuned for Tuesdays chapter.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I was told way back when that you must leave the gun on the seat if you bought it and don't have a permit.

    Sounds like someone reported you to the nice deputy.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    If my hunch is correct, the story might get a little more interesting. Stay tuned for Tuesdays chapter.
    Is that when you intend to follow through on the response you don't expect to get on your FOIA?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    I was told way back when that you must leave the gun on the seat if you bought it and don't have a permit.

    Sounds like someone reported you to the nice deputy.
    They did...an outtastater customer. The surprise is first they came into starbucks to complain. Stabucks told them it wasn't illegal.

    The caller told the cops a child could get it....which is true, assuming the child was on a stepstool and had 4 foot arms no thicker than a newspaper.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    --snipped--
    He kept looking at the Zoom 6 which is a large professional recorder, like it was a snake.
    This may be what the deputy saw when he looked at you with your Zoom 6 cam in hand -



    Note the strong similarity with your eyes

    Your snake undoubtedly would be named Terry....... after our governor.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-07-2015 at 07:23 AM. Reason: Added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    This may be what the deputy saw when he looked at you with your Zoom 6 cam in hand -


    Your snake undoubtedly would be named Terry....... after our governor.
    No resembelance at all. Or is it just that I'm not seeing it without the grass?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    No resembelance at all. Or is it just that I'm not seeing it without the grass?

    stay safe.
    Has nothing to do with balance. Is all about defittingment/appropriatenessmentous
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    They did...an outtastater customer. The surprise is first they came into starbucks to complain. Stabucks told them it wasn't illegal.

    The caller told the cops a child could get it....which is true, assuming the child was on a stepstool and had 4 foot arms no thicker than a newspaper.
    If the outtastater was so concerned, I wonder why they didn't try to pull it out and secure it themselves for the sake of the children? Dern people always making work for someone else.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    If the outtastater was so concerned, I wonder why they didn't try to pull it out and secure it themselves for the sake of the children? Dern people always making work for someone else.
    He didn't have the prerequisite tool - mental midgets require step stools.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    "My job is what I say it is." I swear, I wish RKBA groups or civil liberties groups had a fund for billboards. Comments like that cop's need to go up on a high-visibility billboard with the cop's name below.
    Just our prerogative. -- Moore v. Commonwealth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    No resembelance at all. Or is it just that I'm not seeing it without the grass?

    stay safe.
    Oh! I get it (finally).

    Heh, heh, heh. Good one.

    More coffee needed. Or, scotch. What the heck, why have two beverages? just put a few drops of coffee in the scotch.

    Last edited by Citizen; 05-07-2015 at 08:55 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    No resembelance at all. Or is it just that I'm not seeing it without the grass?

    stay safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh! I get it (finally).

    Heh, heh, heh. Good one.

    More coffee needed. Or, scotch. What the heck, why have two beverages? just put a few drops of coffee in the scotch.

    Snick.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I would like to politely state one small point which may or may not be pertinent here: many times when car windows are partially rolled down, they are pretty easy to force down somewhat further without a huge amount of effort, or breaking anything.

    Please understand this post in the non-confrontational spirit it is presented in.

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm thinking, 15.2-915, here. Damages consisting of inconvenience and unnecessary detention merely to enforce a policy regarding nothing more than possession of a firearm. Against the deputy and the sheriff personally (a sheriff is personally responsible for the tortious acts of his deputies, as his personal agents, respondeat superior).
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    I would like to politely state one small point which may or may not be pertinent here: many times when car windows are partially rolled down, they are pretty easy to force down somewhat further without a huge amount of effort, or breaking anything.

    Please understand this post in the non-confrontational spirit it is presented in.
    That may be true, but that which might happen is not a crime or suspicion of one.

    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Ok, I'm thinking, 15.2-915, here. Damages consisting of inconvenience and unnecessary detention merely to enforce a policy regarding nothing more than possession of a firearm. Against the deputy and the sheriff personally (a sheriff is personally responsible for the tortious acts of his deputies, as his personal agents, respondeat superior).
    That would be consistent with your recommendation, with which I strongly concur, to vigorously pursue all actions, statutes et al that impede our G~d given RKBA.

    I would support such a proceeding.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Ok, I'm thinking, 15.2-915, here. Damages consisting of inconvenience and unnecessary detention merely to enforce a policy regarding nothing more than possession of a firearm. Against the deputy and the sheriff personally (a sheriff is personally responsible for the tortious acts of his deputies, as his personal agents, respondeat superior).
    Except I wasn't detained Dan. I have part of the conversation up I'll send you a link to where I asked if I was being detained. By that time he was getting the idea I wasn't going to blow up as in disorderly...and I wasn't going to be bullied either, and he could plainly see the recorder being held interview style. I asked if I was being detained and he said you came to me. Then I said so I'm free to leave...and he said, yes..that would be awesome. ..kinda made me feel unwelcome.

    Brian...coulda, woulda, shoulda. The car was 20 feet from me and I was sitting at a store front window with it in full view. I measured the opening a little while ago and it was down 3.25 inches. I can't get my arm through that so I rolled it down to where I could get my arm in and measured to where the gun was. 35 inches. Then I measured my arm fingertips to armpit. Right around 26 inches. Then I tried to reach the gun...no way without breaking the window.

    The simple fact is that if someone had gotten it somehow, that's when the cop's job starts arresting the felon theif. His job is not being my nanny.
    Last edited by peter nap; 05-08-2015 at 10:40 AM.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Well....That was record time for an FOIA.

    This email is in response to your request for records under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act (the “Act”) received by this Office on May 7, 2015. You specifically referenced the response of "two Hanover Deputies on May 6, 2015 to investigate a gun in a parked car at Starbucks parking lot, 7297 Battle Hill Dr, Mechanicsville, VA 23111." You requested:

    1. “All written text correspondence and reports either transmitted electronically or hardcopy, concerning that particular call.”
    Please be advised that the Sheriff’s Office does not possess any such records. Pursuant to Virginia Code 2.2-3704 (B) (3), I would suggest that you contact the Hanover County Emergency Communications Center. They can be contacted at:

    Hanover County Emergency Communications Center
    7501 Library Drive
    Hanover, VA 23069
    Phone: (804) 365-6140

    2. “The last name, first and middle initial and rank of both Deputies responding.”
    · Sergeant XXXXXX
    · Deputy XXXXXXXX

    The Virginia Freedom of Information Act permits the County to make reasonable charges for the search time expended in supplying requested records. However, in the interest of public relations, the fees associated with this particular request have been waived. In the meantime, should you have any questions, please contact me
    by phone or email, Monday through Friday from 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Well....That was record time for an FOIA.

    This email is in response to your request for records under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act (the “Act”) received by this Office on May 7, 2015. You specifically referenced the response of "two Hanover Deputies on May 6, 2015 to investigate a gun in a parked car at Starbucks parking lot, 7297 Battle Hill Dr, Mechanicsville, VA 23111." You requested:

    1. “All written text correspondence and reports either transmitted electronically or hardcopy, concerning that particular call.”
    Please be advised that the Sheriff’s Office does not possess any such records. Pursuant to Virginia Code 2.2-3704 (B) (3), I would suggest that you contact the Hanover County Emergency Communications Center. They can be contacted at:

    Hanover County Emergency Communications Center
    7501 Library Drive
    Hanover, VA 23069
    Phone: (804) 365-6140

    2. “The last name, first and middle initial and rank of both Deputies responding.”
    · Sergeant XXXXXX
    · Deputy XXXXXXXX

    The Virginia Freedom of Information Act permits the County to make reasonable charges for the search time expended in supplying requested records. However, in the interest of public relations, the fees associated with this particular request have been waived. In the meantime, should you have any questions, please contact me
    by phone or email, Monday through Friday from 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.
    Awesome, now you can call them by name
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Awesome, now you can call them by name
    I knew the Deputy's Name Grape. She's talked to me before while I was OCing and never a word about the gun. Obviously. they were playing good cop, bad cop here but she has some brownie points.
    There was no incident report made which means they just logged out of the call.

    I suppose the moral of the story is if you are going to stick your nose in things that don't concern you, don't do it under color of law and the magic word goes a lot further than tough guy tactics.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    SNIP Except I wasn't detained Dan.
    Apparently only because he didn't say that was part of his job.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    SNIP FOI Response This email is in response to your request for records under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act (the “Act”) received by this Office on May 7, 2015. You specifically referenced the response of "two Hanover Deputies on May 6, 2015 to investigate a gun in a parked car at Starbucks parking lot, 7297 Battle Hill Dr, Mechanicsville, VA 23111."
    Funny how VA LE can be very precise about the law of a records request, but somehow their thinking can go all soft and muddled when it comes to the 4th Amendment.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    BTW.....has it occurred to anyone that I was at a business that was targeted by anti's but didn't completely give in.....you reckon I was swatted?

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