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Thread: SPD cop calls me out because I have a gun too

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    SPD cop calls me out because I have a gun too

    While covering May Day, Seattle, 2015, Seattle Police Officer J. Hahn attempted calling me out while I legally and peacefully open carried a holstered handgun. Every time I walked past this "brave" cop, he felt the need to address my legally carried firearm. He mentioned it SO many times, it almost was if he was trying to get someone..anyone...to respond to him. Mike Bluehair (Film the Police, Portland) and I decided to spend a little time with him.
    www.roguereflectionsphotography.com

    Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trNCNnFj5f8

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Wow they look like they Robo-Cop wanna-bes. Full of anger and confrontational. Just what you don't want in a 'Peace Officer'.

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    Regular Member mtlhdtodd's Avatar
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    Next time you should take a big bag of individual cheese packages to give to all that whine.

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    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Yeah, a great encounter.

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueReflections View Post
    While covering May Day, Seattle, 2015, Seattle Police Officer J. Hahn attempted calling me out while I legally and peacefully open carried a holstered handgun. Every time I walked past this "brave" cop, he felt the need to address my legally carried firearm. He mentioned it SO many times, it almost was if he was trying to get someone..anyone...to respond to him. Mike Bluehair (Film the Police, Portland) and I decided to spend a little time with him.
    www.roguereflectionsphotography.com

    Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trNCNnFj5f8
    Personally, I think you're a pretty poor representative for OC. Your language and demeanor during this encounter are appalling. It surely looks like your main objective was to provoke a response, or more likely an over response, from the officer.

    Truthfully, by the end of the video I was kind of wishing you'd get what you wanted. Maybe a skull fracture would let in a few manners and a little common sense and decency.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARADCOM View Post
    Personally, I think you're a pretty poor representative for OC. Your language and demeanor during this encounter are appalling. It surely looks like your main objective was to provoke a response, or more likely an over response, from the officer...
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARADCOM View Post
    Personally, I think you're a pretty poor representative for OC. Your language and demeanor during this encounter are appalling. It surely looks like your main objective was to provoke a response, or more likely an over response, from the officer.

    Truthfully, by the end of the video I was kind of wishing you'd get what you wanted. Maybe a skull fracture would let in a few manners and a little common sense and decency.
    I agree Rogue could have been more polished.

    But, I simply cannot find anything in the Bill of Rights that says rights have to be exercised politely.*

    I remember a knucklehead here on the forum a few years ago (now banned). I got the distinct impression he went looking for trouble from police. Openly carried a cap-and-ball revolver in his hand, carried some long arms. Lots of things about him to disapprove of. But, while I personally disapproved of what he was doing, I recognized his right to do it transcended my personal disapproval, and supported him.

    Rights are rights are rights are rights.





    *The one exception to this would be the First Amendment right to petition for redress of grievances. A petition in this context is by definition respectful.



    ETA: Let me add something. I want to say this very, very carefully so nobody goes adding meaning that isn't there. Before anybody goes too far into supporting ARADCOM, lets just keep in mind that ARADCOM is openly supporting Rogue receiving potentially lethal force for a manners violation. Meaning, don't forget to compare Rogue's coarse language to ARADCOM's pleasure at the thought of Rogue receiving actual force to teach him manners.

    Also, since it would be illegal for the cop to fracture Rogue's skull, ARADCOM's post tends in the direction of violating the forum rule that we advocate only for the law-abiding.

    ETA2: ARADCOM clarified his post for me. See post #20 below.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-13-2015 at 09:35 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    UNLIKE COPS, citizens are allowed to be azzholes.

    Aren't cops taught to ignore azzholes, and they go away? The rest of us are.
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-13-2015 at 03:30 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  8. #8
    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
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    Question Say What??

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post

    ETA: Let me add something. I want to say this very, very carefully so nobody goes adding meaning that isn't there. Before anybody goes too far into supporting ARADCOM, lets just keep in mind that ARADCOM is openly supporting Rogue receiving potentially lethal force for a manners violation. Meaning, don't forget to compare Rogue's coarse language to ARADCOM's pleasure at the thought of Rogue receiving actual force to teach him manners.

    Also, since it would be illegal for the cop to fracture Rogue's skull, ARADCOM's post tends in the direction of violating the forum rule that we advocate only for the law-abiding.
    While I respect your point of view, Citizen, I believe you are guilty of adding meaning to what I actually wrote and surmising (incorrectly) what I was thinking when I wrote it.

    My main point is that while I do believe there was an a**hole and a d'bag present, I don't think it was the officer. ;-) Too strong? Well, when I'm OC'ing and someone points out that I have a weapon, the F word and calling them names is not my chosen response. And I doubt it's yours.

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    Context!

    Quote Originally Posted by ARADCOM View Post
    While I respect your point of view, Citizen, I believe you are guilty of adding meaning to what I actually wrote and surmising (incorrectly) what I was thinking when I wrote it.

    My main point is that while I do believe there was an a**hole and a d'bag present, I don't think it was the officer. ;-) Too strong? Well, when I'm OC'ing and someone points out that I have a weapon, the F word and calling them names is not my chosen response. And I doubt it's yours.
    Context, Rouge Reflection's response was not out of line IMO taking the circumstances into consideration. The cop got back what he was dishing out i.e a lack of manners, respect, common sense and civility. If this had been in the grocery store and a soccer mom was involved I may agree that RR's response would have been horrible and a poor representation of OCers. As far as hoping RR gets his skull fractured, that is not acceptable but you are free to say it if you like the rest of us are free to ignore and even question the validity of your future posts due to your past words.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hayes View Post
    As far as hoping RR gets his skull fractured, that is not acceptable but you are free to say it if you like the rest of us are free to ignore and even question the validity of your future posts due to your past words.
    I didn't read anyone hoping for an actual skull fracture or assault. I read someone "kind of wishing" for some physical response.

    I have to question the honest of anyone who has never found another person's conduct so boorish as to "kind of wish" or half-way hope that he might get some comeuppance. Heck, the Germans have a word for taking pleasure in another's suffering: Schadenfreude. They might just have a word for having half a hope of being able to engage in some schadenfreude.

    Let us also not forget the legal concept of fighting words. Some words are so offensive that are (or at least in a more civilized time were) recognized as being equal to a mild physical assault for which some modest level of physical response was to be expected. One of the elements of fighting words is that they be personally directed.

    IOW, wearing a T-shirt that reads, "Screw the liberals" is not fighting words. Standing outside the Democratic Party offices and personally telling those who enter or leave to fornicate with themselves could cross that line. Yelling at a woman and calling her an impolite name for a prostitute very well might. The F word get used precisely because of its shock value. And I would argue that when directed to an individual personally, falls into the category of fighting words for which the user should well expect some level of physical response.

    Let us remember Heinlein, "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

    We do not generally see anyone here accusing Heinlein of wanting violation of rights. And notice he is talking about manners not merely avoiding gross violations against another's life and limb.

    I don't think ARADCOM has written anything different than Heinlein did.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  11. #11
    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
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    Cool They are words and have meaning

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hayes View Post
    Context, Rouge Reflection's response was not out of line IMO taking the circumstances into consideration. The cop got back what he was dishing out i.e a lack of manners, respect, common sense and civility. If this had been in the grocery store and a soccer mom was involved I may agree that RR's response would have been horrible and a poor representation of OCers. As far as hoping RR gets his skull fractured, that is not acceptable but you are free to say it if you like the rest of us are free to ignore and even question the validity of your future posts due to your past words.
    Hi Jeff. What I really dislike about stuff like this is people using THEIR words to describe what I said. In my world there is a significant difference between "kind of wishing" (my words) and "hoping" (your words describing what I said).

    Does that mean I should question the validity of your future posts? ;-)

  12. #12
    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
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    Thumbs up I feel like a "Stranger in a Strange Land"

    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    I didn't read anyone hoping for an actual skull fracture or assault. I read someone "kind of wishing" for some physical response.

    Let us remember Heinlein, "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."


    Charles
    Thanks for the high level of reading comprehension and a little bit of education. I grew up reading Heinlein, Asimov, and every other kind of science fiction.

    But I never knew the 'armed society' quote was from him.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARADCOM View Post
    Truthfully, by the end of the video I was kind of wishing you'd get what you wanted. Maybe a skull fracture would let in a few manners and a little common sense and decency.
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Before anybody goes too far into supporting ARADCOM, lets just keep in mind that ARADCOM is openly supporting Rogue receiving potentially lethal force for a manners violation. Meaning, don't forget to compare Rogue's coarse language to ARADCOM's pleasure at the thought of Rogue receiving actual force to teach him manners.
    Quote Originally Posted by ARADCOM View Post
    While I respect your point of view, Citizen, I believe you are guilty of adding meaning to what I actually wrote and surmising (incorrectly) what I was thinking when I wrote it.
    I think what you wrote is perfectly clear. And I think your attitude is far, far more disgusting than all the "language and demeanor" in the world.

    Frankly, I think Citizen was far too polite.

    And yes, RR was acting like kind of a d'bag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARADCOM View Post
    Hi Jeff. What I really dislike about stuff like this is people using THEIR words to describe what I said. In my world there is a significant difference between "kind of wishing" (my words) and "hoping" (your words describing what I said).

    Does that mean I should question the validity of your future posts? ;-)
    I am not the one that "kinda wished" harm upon another, is that like kinda being pregnant?
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    [QUOTE=utbagpiper;2142065] "kind of wishing"

    Lets stick to the subject at hand.

    Kinda rich, kinda funny, kinda good, kinda in these examples implies some wealth, some humor, some good etc etc, by stating he "kinda wanted" implies some hope or degree of skull bashing was indeed desired. Any way you cut it it is still a degree of wanting harm to befall RR, not cool IMO YMMV.

    Disagree if you like, you are free to do so, I do not really care. I stated my opinion and you yours others can decide as they wish who they agree with, don't agree with or think the entire thing is simply dumb. Your opinion and mine are moot as far as further disagreement goes.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARADCOM View Post
    While I respect your point of view, Citizen, I believe you are guilty of adding meaning to what I actually wrote and surmising (incorrectly) what I was thinking when I wrote it.
    OK. I'm willing to listen. Clarify it for me. No, really. If you meant something else, for example, to just give a reader understanding of the depth of your disagreement with Rogue's behavior, I'm willing to listen. Heck, if you convince me, I'll even ETA my post.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-13-2015 at 08:16 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  17. #17
    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
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    Smile I'm kind of wishing people would lighten up.

    [QUOTE=Jeff Hayes;2142089]
    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    "kind of wishing"

    Lets stick to the subject at hand.

    Kinda rich, kinda funny, kinda good, kinda in these examples implies some wealth, some humor, some good etc etc, by stating he "kinda wanted" implies some hope or degree of skull bashing was indeed desired. Any way you cut it it is still a degree of wanting harm to befall RR, not cool IMO YMMV.

    Disagree if you like, you are free to do so, I do not really care. I stated my opinion and you yours others can decide as they wish who they agree with, don't agree with or think the entire thing is simply dumb. Your opinion and mine are moot as far as further disagreement goes.
    It's just a pity you couldn't own up to trying to stick 'your' words in 'my' mouth and move on. And the 'you and yours' comment. What's up with that?

  18. #18
    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hayes View Post
    I am not the one that "kinda wished" harm upon another, is that like kinda being pregnant?
    I think it's more like being 'kinda obtuse'.

  19. #19
    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I think what you wrote is perfectly clear. And I think your attitude is far, far more disgusting than all the "language and demeanor" in the world.

    Frankly, I think Citizen was far too polite.

    And yes, RR was acting like kind of a d'bag.
    Man, I have always loved your Avatar. It is just so cool.

  20. #20
    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
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    Thumbs up I'll give it a try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    OK. I'm willing to listen. Clarify it for me. No, really. If you meant something else, for example, to just give a reader understanding of the depth of your disagreement with Rogue's behavior, I'm willing to listen. Heck, if you convince me, I'll even ETA my post.
    Hi, Citizen. Thanks for the opportunity to hopefully resolve what I meant to convey. The semantics of a statement are sometimes difficult to discern, and I admit that my post can be taken several ways, depending upon the readers bias and views.

    Let me start by saying that the thing that I take issue most with in your original statement are the words "to ARADCOM's pleasure at the thought of Rogue receiving actual force to teach him manners". I would not derive any pleasure from that and I didn't mean that and certainly don't think I said that.

    The language of my post does not imply or say anything about what 'I" wanted to happen. It was written from the viewpoint that it appeared to me that RR was deliberately baiting the officer to provoke a response. And since the officer had a baton/nightstick in his hand I imagined what that response might be.

    My words were: *you'd (RR) get what you (RR) wanted*. In other words, that RR's wish (not mine) would come true.

    And I admit that I'm guilty of surmising what RR was thinking. Maybe he wasn't being foul and confrontational and highly disrespectful.

    But wait, what is it we always say about stuff like this, "If only we had video"!

    I truly apologize to anyone who felt that my post wished, or hoped that I wanted RR to actually receive a fractured skull. But I can't help but feel that HE would have been exceedingly happy with that outcome.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARADCOM View Post
    SNIP Hi, Citizen. Thanks for the opportunity to hopefully resolve what I meant to convey.
    OK. Thanks. I added an ETA2 to my post referencing yours at post #20.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  22. #22
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    UNLIKE COPS, citizens are allowed to be azzholes.
    Aren't cops taught to ignore azzholes, and they go away? The rest of us are.
    Whaaatt?? Cops aren't allowed to be a**holes? Did anyone tell THEM that? Certainly not in Seattle!
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    Whaaatt?? Cops aren't allowed to be a**holes? Did anyone tell THEM that? Certainly not in Seattle!
    Surely it can't be happening. There's a policy in place!
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    ARADCOM, there's no explaining what you wrote. You've started back-pedaling, and after being such a bombastic jerk to some of the more respected members of this forum about it, you're trying, desperately, not to admit that you didn't say what you meant. At least, that's the best possible truth that could come out of your original post in this thread. What you posted was reprehensible. It doesn't matter how you try to spin it to cover it up; you posted some grade-A, rancid sh't. So own up to having made a stupid post and move on. This pansy-assed equivocating, insisting people put words in your mouth or took your words out of context, makes you look stupider.

    Be a man. Admit you screwed up. Because, when assessing which of two people is the d*uchebag, the answer is almost always both.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    SNIP when assessing which of two people is the d*uchebag, the answer is almost always both.
    IMO, I think that is the correct answer to the video I watched....
    Which is more egregious? The one representing the state. Do I want either one representing me? No.
    In reading the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights and the Federalist Papers, they are well noted for eloquence, not for calling the King or his representatives d-bags or f***ing a-holes.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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