SPD cop calls me out because I have a gun too

RogueReflections · May 12, 2015

While covering May Day, Seattle, 2015, Seattle Police Officer J. Hahn attempted calling me out while I legally and peacefully open carried a holstered handgun. Every time I walked past this "brave" cop, he felt the need to address my legally carried firearm. He mentioned it SO many times, it almost was if he was trying to get someone..anyone...to respond to him. Mike Bluehair (Film the Police, Portland) and I decided to spend a little time with him.
www.roguereflectionsphotography.com

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trNCNnFj5f8

Maverick9 · May 12, 2015

Wow they look like they Robo-Cop wanna-bes. Full of anger and confrontational. Just what you don't want in a 'Peace Officer'.

mtlhdtodd · May 12, 2015

Next time you should take a big bag of individual cheese packages to give to all that whine.

ARADCOM · May 13, 2015

Yeah, a great encounter.

RogueReflections said:
While covering May Day, Seattle, 2015, Seattle Police Officer J. Hahn attempted calling me out while I legally and peacefully open carried a holstered handgun. Every time I walked past this "brave" cop, he felt the need to address my legally carried firearm. He mentioned it SO many times, it almost was if he was trying to get someone..anyone...to respond to him. Mike Bluehair (Film the Police, Portland) and I decided to spend a little time with him.
www.roguereflectionsphotography.com

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trNCNnFj5f8

Personally, I think you're a pretty poor representative for OC. Your language and demeanor during this encounter are appalling. It surely looks like your main objective was to provoke a response, or more likely an over response, from the officer.

Truthfully, by the end of the video I was kind of wishing you'd get what you wanted. Maybe a skull fracture would let in a few manners and a little common sense and decency.

BB62 · May 13, 2015

ARADCOM said:
Personally, I think you're a pretty poor representative for OC. Your language and demeanor during this encounter are appalling. It surely looks like your main objective was to provoke a response, or more likely an over response, from the officer...

+1

Citizen · May 13, 2015

ARADCOM said:
Personally, I think you're a pretty poor representative for OC. Your language and demeanor during this encounter are appalling. It surely looks like your main objective was to provoke a response, or more likely an over response, from the officer.

Truthfully, by the end of the video I was kind of wishing you'd get what you wanted. Maybe a skull fracture would let in a few manners and a little common sense and decency.

I agree Rogue could have been more polished.

But, I simply cannot find anything in the Bill of Rights that says rights have to be exercised politely.*

I remember a knucklehead here on the forum a few years ago (now banned). I got the distinct impression he went looking for trouble from police. Openly carried a cap-and-ball revolver in his hand, carried some long arms. Lots of things about him to disapprove of. But, while I personally disapproved of what he was doing, I recognized his right to do it transcended my personal disapproval, and supported him.

Rights are rights are rights are rights.

*The one exception to this would be the First Amendment right to petition for redress of grievances. A petition in this context is by definition respectful.

ETA: Let me add something. I want to say this very, very carefully so nobody goes adding meaning that isn't there. Before anybody goes too far into supporting ARADCOM, lets just keep in mind that ARADCOM is openly supporting Rogue receiving potentially lethal force for a manners violation. Meaning, don't forget to compare Rogue's coarse language to ARADCOM's pleasure at the thought of Rogue receiving actual force to teach him manners.

Also, since it would be illegal for the cop to fracture Rogue's skull, ARADCOM's post tends in the direction of violating the forum rule that we advocate only for the law-abiding.

ETA2: ARADCOM clarified his post for me. See post #20 below.

MAC702 · May 13, 2015

UNLIKE COPS, citizens are allowed to be azzholes.

Aren't cops taught to ignore azzholes, and they go away? The rest of us are.

ARADCOM · May 13, 2015

Say What??

Citizen said:
ETA: Let me add something. I want to say this very, very carefully so nobody goes adding meaning that isn't there. Before anybody goes too far into supporting ARADCOM, lets just keep in mind that ARADCOM is openly supporting Rogue receiving potentially lethal force for a manners violation. Meaning, don't forget to compare Rogue's coarse language to ARADCOM's pleasure at the thought of Rogue receiving actual force to teach him manners.

Also, since it would be illegal for the cop to fracture Rogue's skull, ARADCOM's post tends in the direction of violating the forum rule that we advocate only for the law-abiding.

While I respect your point of view, Citizen, I believe you are guilty of adding meaning to what I actually wrote and surmising (incorrectly) what I was thinking when I wrote it.

My main point is that while I do believe there was an a**hole and a d'bag present, I don't think it was the officer. ;-) Too strong? Well, when I'm OC'ing and someone points out that I have a weapon, the F word and calling them names is not my chosen response. And I doubt it's yours.

Jeff Hayes · May 13, 2015

Context!

ARADCOM said:
While I respect your point of view, Citizen, I believe you are guilty of adding meaning to what I actually wrote and surmising (incorrectly) what I was thinking when I wrote it.

My main point is that while I do believe there was an a**hole and a d'bag present, I don't think it was the officer. ;-) Too strong? Well, when I'm OC'ing and someone points out that I have a weapon, the F word and calling them names is not my chosen response. And I doubt it's yours.

Context, Rouge Reflection's response was not out of line IMO taking the circumstances into consideration. The cop got back what he was dishing out i.e a lack of manners, respect, common sense and civility. If this had been in the grocery store and a soccer mom was involved I may agree that RR's response would have been horrible and a poor representation of OCers. As far as hoping RR gets his skull fractured, that is not acceptable but you are free to say it if you like the rest of us are free to ignore and even question the validity of your future posts due to your past words.

utbagpiper · May 13, 2015

Jeff Hayes said:
As far as hoping RR gets his skull fractured, that is not acceptable but you are free to say it if you like the rest of us are free to ignore and even question the validity of your future posts due to your past words.

I didn't read anyone hoping for an actual skull fracture or assault. I read someone "kind of wishing" for some physical response.

I have to question the honest of anyone who has never found another person's conduct so boorish as to "kind of wish" or half-way hope that he might get some comeuppance. Heck, the Germans have a word for taking pleasure in another's suffering: Schadenfreude. They might just have a word for having half a hope of being able to engage in some schadenfreude.

Let us also not forget the legal concept of fighting words. Some words are so offensive that are (or at least in a more civilized time were) recognized as being equal to a mild physical assault for which some modest level of physical response was to be expected. One of the elements of fighting words is that they be personally directed.

IOW, wearing a T-shirt that reads, "Screw the liberals" is not fighting words. Standing outside the Democratic Party offices and personally telling those who enter or leave to fornicate with themselves could cross that line. Yelling at a woman and calling her an impolite name for a prostitute very well might. The F word get used precisely because of its shock value. And I would argue that when directed to an individual personally, falls into the category of fighting words for which the user should well expect some level of physical response.

Let us remember Heinlein, "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

We do not generally see anyone here accusing Heinlein of wanting violation of rights. And notice he is talking about manners not merely avoiding gross violations against another's life and limb.

I don't think ARADCOM has written anything different than Heinlein did.

Charles

ARADCOM · May 13, 2015

They are words and have meaning

Jeff Hayes said:
Context, Rouge Reflection's response was not out of line IMO taking the circumstances into consideration. The cop got back what he was dishing out i.e a lack of manners, respect, common sense and civility. If this had been in the grocery store and a soccer mom was involved I may agree that RR's response would have been horrible and a poor representation of OCers. As far as hoping RR gets his skull fractured, that is not acceptable but you are free to say it if you like the rest of us are free to ignore and even question the validity of your future posts due to your past words.

Hi Jeff. What I really dislike about stuff like this is people using THEIR words to describe what I said. In my world there is a significant difference between "kind of wishing" (my words) and "hoping" (your words describing what I said).

Does that mean I should question the validity of your future posts? ;-)

ARADCOM · May 13, 2015

I feel like a "Stranger in a Strange Land"

utbagpiper said:
I didn't read anyone hoping for an actual skull fracture or assault. I read someone "kind of wishing" for some physical response.

Let us remember Heinlein, "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

Charles

Thanks for the high level of reading comprehension and a little bit of education. I grew up reading Heinlein, Asimov, and every other kind of science fiction.

But I never knew the 'armed society' quote was from him.

marshaul · May 13, 2015

ARADCOM said:
Truthfully, by the end of the video I was kind of wishing you'd get what you wanted. Maybe a skull fracture would let in a few manners and a little common sense and decency.

Citizen said:
Before anybody goes too far into supporting ARADCOM, lets just keep in mind that ARADCOM is openly supporting Rogue receiving potentially lethal force for a manners violation. Meaning, don't forget to compare Rogue's coarse language to ARADCOM's pleasure at the thought of Rogue receiving actual force to teach him manners.

ARADCOM said:
While I respect your point of view, Citizen, I believe you are guilty of adding meaning to what I actually wrote and surmising (incorrectly) what I was thinking when I wrote it.

I think what you wrote is perfectly clear. And I think your attitude is far, far more disgusting than all the "language and demeanor" in the world.

Frankly, I think Citizen was far too polite.

And yes, RR was acting like kind of a d'bag.

Jeff Hayes · May 13, 2015

ARADCOM said:
Hi Jeff. What I really dislike about stuff like this is people using THEIR words to describe what I said. In my world there is a significant difference between "kind of wishing" (my words) and "hoping" (your words describing what I said).

Does that mean I should question the validity of your future posts? ;-)

I am not the one that "kinda wished" harm upon another, is that like kinda being pregnant?

Jeff Hayes · May 13, 2015

utbagpiper said:
"kind of wishing"

Lets stick to the subject at hand.

Kinda rich, kinda funny, kinda good, kinda in these examples implies some wealth, some humor, some good etc etc, by stating he "kinda wanted" implies some hope or degree of skull bashing was indeed desired. Any way you cut it it is still a degree of wanting harm to befall RR, not cool IMO YMMV.

Disagree if you like, you are free to do so, I do not really care. I stated my opinion and you yours others can decide as they wish who they agree with, don't agree with or think the entire thing is simply dumb. Your opinion and mine are moot as far as further disagreement goes.

Citizen · May 13, 2015

ARADCOM said:
While I respect your point of view, Citizen, I believe you are guilty of adding meaning to what I actually wrote and surmising (incorrectly) what I was thinking when I wrote it.

OK. I'm willing to listen. Clarify it for me. No, really. If you meant something else, for example, to just give a reader understanding of the depth of your disagreement with Rogue's behavior, I'm willing to listen. Heck, if you convince me, I'll even ETA my post.

ARADCOM · May 13, 2015

I'm kind of wishing people would lighten up.

Jeff Hayes said:
utbagpiper said:

"kind of wishing"

Lets stick to the subject at hand.

Kinda rich, kinda funny, kinda good, kinda in these examples implies some wealth, some humor, some good etc etc, by stating he "kinda wanted" implies some hope or degree of skull bashing was indeed desired. Any way you cut it it is still a degree of wanting harm to befall RR, not cool IMO YMMV.

Disagree if you like, you are free to do so, I do not really care. I stated my opinion and you yours others can decide as they wish who they agree with, don't agree with or think the entire thing is simply dumb. Your opinion and mine are moot as far as further disagreement goes.

Click to expand...

It's just a pity you couldn't own up to trying to stick 'your' words in 'my' mouth and move on. And the 'you and yours' comment. What's up with that?

ARADCOM · May 13, 2015

Jeff Hayes said:
I am not the one that "kinda wished" harm upon another, is that like kinda being pregnant?

I think it's more like being 'kinda obtuse'.

ARADCOM · May 13, 2015

marshaul said:
I think what you wrote is perfectly clear. And I think your attitude is far, far more disgusting than all the "language and demeanor" in the world.

Frankly, I think Citizen was far too polite.

And yes, RR was acting like kind of a d'bag.

Man, I have always loved your Avatar. It is just so cool.

ARADCOM · May 13, 2015

I'll give it a try.

Citizen said:
OK. I'm willing to listen. Clarify it for me. No, really. If you meant something else, for example, to just give a reader understanding of the depth of your disagreement with Rogue's behavior, I'm willing to listen. Heck, if you convince me, I'll even ETA my post.

Hi, Citizen. Thanks for the opportunity to hopefully resolve what I meant to convey. The semantics of a statement are sometimes difficult to discern, and I admit that my post can be taken several ways, depending upon the readers bias and views.

Let me start by saying that the thing that I take issue most with in your original statement are the words "to ARADCOM's pleasure at the thought of Rogue receiving actual force to teach him manners". I would not derive any pleasure from that and I didn't mean that and certainly don't think I said that.

The language of my post does not imply or say anything about what 'I" wanted to happen. It was written from the viewpoint that it appeared to me that RR was deliberately baiting the officer to provoke a response. And since the officer had a baton/nightstick in his hand I imagined what that response might be.

My words were: *you'd (RR) get what you (RR) wanted*. In other words, that RR's wish (not mine) would come true.

And I admit that I'm guilty of surmising what RR was thinking. Maybe he wasn't being foul and confrontational and highly disrespectful.

But wait, what is it we always say about stuff like this, "If only we had video"!

I truly apologize to anyone who felt that my post wished, or hoped that I wanted RR to actually receive a fractured skull. But I can't help but feel that HE would have been exceedingly happy with that outcome.

SPD cop calls me out because I have a gun too

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