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Thread: What is this nonsense? (Bernie Sanders)

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    What is this nonsense? (Bernie Sanders)

    Since he's announced his candidacy for POTUS, I've seen a couple of news article touting him as a pro-gun rights guy.



    Say what?

    He rates no better than an F from both the NRA and Gun Owners of America.

    Can everyone see what the liberal media is doing? They realize that the country leans more toward gun rights than gun control. Can't have that. But gun control isn't much of a winning issue. So they portray a gun grabber as a gun rights hero. And what's incredible is, I bet a good portion of people will fall for it. Jebus Kripes!

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Since he's announced his candidacy for POTUS, I've seen a couple of news article touting him as a pro-gun rights guy.



    Say what?

    He rates no better than an F from both the NRA and Gun Owners of America.

    Can everyone see what the liberal media is doing? They realize that the country leans more toward gun rights than gun control. Can't have that. But gun control isn't much of a winning issue. So they portray a gun grabber as a gun rights hero. And what's incredible is, I bet a good portion of people will fall for it. Jebus Kripes!
    1) Gun owners of America is nothing but a permanent employment agency for Pratt who is useful at nothing else in life.

    2) the NRA Rating is meaningless without context, the NRA keeps their rating mechanism secret.

    3) He voted Against the Brady Bill, and for the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, he has never consponsored gun control legislation. voted for guns in parks, and allowing guns on baggage on trains. , the only anti gun vote was the Assault Weapon Ban in the 90s, which many people who were otherwise pro-gun voted for.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    1) Gun owners of America is nothing but a permanent employment agency for Pratt who is useful at nothing else in life.
    Thats not necessarily a bad thing. All though I lost respect of him with his anti-muslim rants.

    2) the NRA Rating is meaningless without context, the NRA keeps their rating mechanism secret.
    They also tend to endorse incumbents over more progun challengers.

    3) He voted Against the Brady Bill, and for the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, he has never consponsored gun control legislation. voted for guns in parks, and allowing guns on baggage on trains. , the only anti gun vote was the Assault Weapon Ban in the 90s, which many people who were otherwise pro-gun voted for.[/QUOTE]

    Didn't know this thanks. People forget Bush wanted to vote for that ban and limited magazine capacity etc.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Big whoop, he kinda-sorta likes individual liberty where guns are concerned...well maybe not, he voted for the Brady Bill after Newtown.
    After the massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., in 2012, Sanders reversed his position on the Brady Bill the next year and voted to expand background checks.
    Nope, he is no friend of liberty, a self avowed socialist is no different than a closet socialist...all liberals that is.

    So, Bernie returns to his political roots, the liberal agenda must be perpetuated and expanded...liberalism is the only thing that matters. Liberals are liberals first and foremost, all other considerations are secondary.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Big whoop, he kinda-sorta likes individual liberty where guns are concerned...well maybe not, he voted for the Brady Bill after Newtown.Nope, he is no friend of liberty, a self avowed socialist is no different than a closet socialist...all liberals that is.

    So, Bernie returns to his political roots, the liberal agenda must be perpetuated and expanded...liberalism is the only thing that matters. Liberals are liberals first and foremost, all other considerations are secondary.
    OC for me,

    You do indeed paint with a very broad brush.

    Bernie is certainly not a classic liberal. I am originally from New England and being a libertarian disagre with him on many issues, but he is fairly solid in the limiting government infringement of individual rights department, including the Patriot Act and all of the other NeoCon tyranny in the name of security crapp. He is however, exceedingly bad on the economic rights department. Not a traditional socialist.

    He is a very good friend of gun rights most of the time.

    I am a libertarian and could never vote for or support a champion of wealth redistribution, but as far as gun rights go he is usually more solid than the Republican Caucus.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Thats not necessarily a bad thing. All though I lost respect of him with his anti-muslim rants.



    They also tend to endorse incumbents over more progun challengers.



    Didn't know this thanks. People forget Bush wanted to vote for that ban and limited magazine capacity etc.
    Pratt irritates me, like people hated it when Piers Morgan called him a "stupid man" on his CNN show, but that's the one thing PM said I agreed with.

    The anti Moslem stuff irritates me too. People are so paranoid over that it's sickening really.

    A year ago now I was still driving over the road, and I was at a warehouse in Sacramento and I was checking in, there was these punjabi drivers there, and I was talking with one of them and he went out to his truck and the warehouse reciever once he was gone referred to him as "al Qaeda" and I flipped my **** at that guy, but you know not only was he using this anti Moslem attitude, he used it against a Sihk punjabi not even knowing the difference.

    Even if he was an Arab Moslem I would've let him know that wasn't ok. I'm not the hugest fan of the Moslem religion, but I don't like religion in general anymore, I certainly don't hold it against individual Moslems
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 05-17-2015 at 12:09 AM.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    OC for me,

    You do indeed paint with a very broad brush.

    Bernie is certainly not a classic liberal. I am originally from New England and being a libertarian disagre with him on many issues, but he is fairly solid in the limiting government infringement of individual rights department, including the Patriot Act and all of the other NeoCon tyranny in the name of security crapp. He is however, exceedingly bad on the economic rights department. Not a traditional socialist.

    He is a very good friend of gun rights most of the time.

    I am a libertarian and could never vote for or support a champion of wealth redistribution, but as far as gun rights go he is usually more solid than the Republican Caucus.
    Taking my money while allowing me to keep my gun...hmm, yes, he has not taken my gun.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Pratt irritates me, like people hated it when Piers Morgan called him a "stupid man" on his CNN show, but that's the one thing PM said I agreed with.

    The anti Moslem stuff irritates me too. People are so paranoid over that it's sickening really.

    A year ago now I was still driving over the road, and I was at a warehouse in Sacramento and I was checking in, there was these punjabi drivers there, and I was talking with one of them and he went out to his truck and the warehouse reciever once he was gone referred to him as "al Qaeda" and I flipped my **** at that guy, but you know not only was he using this anti Moslem attitude, he used it against a Sihk punjabi not even knowing the difference.

    Even if he was an Arab Moslem I would've let him know that wasn't ok. I'm not the hugest fan of the Moslem religion, but I don't like religion in general anymore, I certainly don't hold it against individual Moslems
    Well said.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Taking my money while allowing me to keep my gun...hmm, yes, he has not taken my gun.
    Ding, ding , ding, exactly. Condemn him for his sins, not the sins of the majority of liberals and socialists.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Sorry, but some of you need to get your heads out of your nether regions regarding Bernie Sanders. He is in no way pro-gun rights, and the way the media is trying to make him look like he is is nothing more than propaganda reminiscent of the "Big Lie". Don't be fooled.
    Last edited by pkbites; 07-27-2015 at 04:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Sorry, but some of you need to get your heads out of your nether regions regarding Bernie Sanders. He is in no way pro-gun rights, and the way the media is trying to make him look like he is is nothing more than propaganda reminiscent of the "Big Lie". Don't be fooled.
    Well said!! Not one socialist, commiecrat gives a hoot about our Constitution, thats why they are call progressive liberals, this goes for the "establishment" Republicans also. Ted Cruz for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wethepeople View Post
    Well said!! Not one socialist, commiecrat gives a hoot about our Constitution, thats why they are call progressive liberals, this goes for the "establishment" Republicans also. Ted Cruz for me.
    The birthers are never gonna let Cruz on the ballot without seeming to be hypocritical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    The birthers are never gonna let Cruz on the ballot without seeming to be hypocritical.
    There is a big difference between the two. obama HATES this country, our Constitution, our way of life and everything that stands for Liberty. Ted Cruz Loves this country, our Constitution (knows it like the back of his hand) our way of life and everything that stands for Liberty. This is not my opinion, this is a fact. I will support anybody who fully understands and supports our Constitution regardless of their birth, or color.

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    I can't pin Sanders down on gun rights. Some say that he is fairly moderate, some say he wants to take away ALL self-defense firearms, others say he would stick with the status quo. I will say that at least Sanders doesn't shy away from who he really is - unlike most Rs and Ds alike. I also happen to agree with SOME of his platform ... getting big money out of swaying elections, given a choice - I'd rather spend tax dollars on domestic infrastructure, education, and health care rather than constantly supporting foreign wars. Sanders is correct that a small percentage of the population with the majority of the wealth gets to dictate policy and the gap between them and the middle class and poor continues to widen, I disagree with his methods in correcting that discrepancy (lots of heavy taxes on the super rich, redistribution of wealth, and minimum wage increases; he also seems to lake the comprehension that nothing is free and actions have consequences).

    Is there ANYONE running for President worth voting for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    Is there ANYONE running for President worth voting for?
    Nope. Looks like I'll sit this one out .......again.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Bernie's Gun Weirdness

    Bernie did espouse the concept that there should be different rules in rural and urban (undefined) about guns. Have not heard anything about it since. No details.

    As to guns, he is the best of the Clinton/O'Malloy/Chafee/Sanders crowd. Hillary thinks there are to many guns out there, O'Malloy wants "common sense" meaning Maryland's People's Republic laws, and Chaffee is a lost dreamer.

    Nobody is talking mental health for the crazies, and real criminals and terrorists are being avoided.
    Last edited by GHF; 08-02-2015 at 01:04 PM.

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    in 2008, my first presidential election, I voted for Obama, and straight democrat. in 2012, I voted for the Libertarian POTUS candidate, and voted independant, and libertarian, and even a pirate party candidate on the other tickets. 2016, I'll probably vote for Sanders. Anyone who wants to heavily tax the super-wealthy, and actually talks openly about giving poor people the same standard of living that is found in most of the western, and first-world nations, is someone that automatically gets my vote.

    Better a New England Independant, than a conserva-fascist Republican, or a rambling baffon from the Dem. Bloc.
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    Bernie says he is pro gun rights... yet what he really means is he is pro hunting gun rights..... he doesn't believe people should have any gun that it's primary purpose is not hunting.
    No ar15. No handguns. No "large capacity mags" ....no "military" looking guns. So you see he is no different than any other liberal candidate. He has just had to lie or at least stretch and spin the truth and say he is pro gun in order to maintain his job in Vermont.

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    http://truthinmedia.com/bernie-sande...ense-firearms/

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    in 2008, my first presidential election, I voted for Obama, and straight democrat. in 2012, I voted for the Libertarian POTUS candidate, and voted independant, and libertarian, and even a pirate party candidate on the other tickets. 2016, I'll probably vote for Sanders. Anyone who wants to heavily tax the super-wealthy, and actually talks openly about giving poor people the same standard of living that is found in most of the western, and first-world nations, is someone that automatically gets my vote.

    Better a New England Independant, than a conserva-fascist Republican, or a rambling baffon from the Dem. Bloc.
    Hate to burst your bubble, but if they taxed the rich more, yours (maybe) and my income will NOT go up, it will only cost us more to buy things we need which in turn will make us have even less money. How does a $10 burger sound? Wake up. Those evil rich. Why even obama supports wealth distribution when he holds, lets see, how much money was it to eat at his fund raiser? was it 300 dollars a plate? more? what was it?

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by wethepeople View Post
    Hate to burst your bubble, but if they taxed the rich more, yours (maybe) and my income will NOT go up, it will only cost us more to buy things we need which in turn will make us have even less money. How does a $10 burger sound? Wake up. Those evil rich. Why even obama supports wealth distribution when he holds, lets see, how much money was it to eat at his fund raiser? was it 300 dollars a plate? more? what was it?
    No it won't, becuase no matter the tax rate people won't pay ten bucks for a burger worth 1 dollar, either they take the loss out of profits or they don't sell.

    And besides, with the way tax code is set up business expenses an parts of employee salaries are write offs, so increasing wages increases the write off if the taxes are raised
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    I can't pin Sanders down on gun rights. Some say that he is fairly moderate, some say he wants to take away ALL self-defense firearms, others say he would stick with the status quo. I will say that at least Sanders doesn't shy away from who he really is - unlike most Rs and Ds alike. I also happen to agree with SOME of his platform ... getting big money out of swaying elections, given a choice - I'd rather spend tax dollars on domestic infrastructure, education, and health care rather than constantly supporting foreign wars. Sanders is correct that a small percentage of the population with the majority of the wealth gets to dictate policy and the gap between them and the middle class and poor continues to widen, I disagree with his methods in correcting that discrepancy (lots of heavy taxes on the super rich, redistribution of wealth, and minimum wage increases; he also seems to lake the comprehension that nothing is free and actions have consequences).

    Is there ANYONE running for President worth voting for?
    I think sanders based on voting history is a fudd, he has no problem with people owning or carrying handguns, no problem with hunting, etc but he dislikes the tactical type guns and militia stuff.

    That said, the real thing is, Sanders probably doesn't consider it a campaign issue, he may sign a bill that traces his desk, but I don't think he will lobby for new laws or order executive agencies to invent novel new ways of executing current law
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by wethepeople View Post
    Hate to burst your bubble, but if they taxed the rich more, yours (maybe) and my income will NOT go up, it will only cost us more to buy things we need which in turn will make us have even less money. How does a $10 burger sound? Wake up. Those evil rich. Why even obama supports wealth distribution when he holds, lets see, how much money was it to eat at his fund raiser? was it 300 dollars a plate? more? what was it?
    Some prices are inelastic.

    You fail to admit that prices will and have gone up without taxing the rich more but actually taxing them less...but I won't even really claim a direct correlation like you apparently are...
    You will also never admit that if wages go up and a price of a good is not elastic then the other main option is that the owner now makes less profit.
    So instead of 900k he makes 700k a year... oh the horror.

    The reasons for the widening wealth gap are many. Politicians etc have to break things down into small understandable sound bites so that the idiots out there can grab a hold of something and vote the way they are told (regardless of which side/party)

    To really correct the problem you have to attack the root causes. .. things to look at are issues that address the supply and demand of the labor pool.
    Illegal Immigration. H1b visas...and we'll work visas of all kinds... taxes on imports and the tax breaks given to companies that ship jobs over seas.

    Some will say labor competition is good...and in a perfect world that might true but in reality it is only good for the companies as it keeps wages low...but we don't live in a perfect world.

    Some ignorant fools want people to believe that all it takes to get ahead is to just get a better job...and that is true if it is possible.... but they take this and believe that every darn idiot out there is mentally capable... like some cashier at Walmart could be a neurosurgeon if she just applied herself ...never mind her iq is like 85... she is the next great thinker of our time... she doesn't even have the abilities to do much more than what she is doing... bit the jobs that are just above cashier are not there anymore.

    For those that are barely capable of college they are faced with staggering expenses....100 k in student loans to get a 30-40 k job? Lol....


    Illegal immigration and work visas and outsourcing etc have all put downward pressure on wages. It isn't like people say that people are lazy....it is that companies don't pay enough to make it worthwhile in msny cases. And in many cases this is cause they operate in grey areas of the law....cause companies are doing what is best for them, which they should.

    Imagine if every illegal alien and visa wotker was magically sent home to their country and they magically could not come back. .... the labor market would see a shortage and in order to fill vacancies companies would have to pay more in wages to attract and hold onto wotkers....that is how supply and demand works.


    I won't continue to ramble on cause you will disagree...not from a logical standpoint but from a you have been told xyz standpoint and don't want to think for yourself standpoint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStack View Post
    Some prices are inelastic.

    You fail to admit that prices will and have gone up without taxing the rich more but actually taxing them less...but I won't even really claim a direct correlation like you apparently are...
    You will also never admit that if wages go up and a price of a good is not elastic then the other main option is that the owner now makes less profit.
    So instead of 900k he makes 700k a year... oh the horror.

    The reasons for the widening wealth gap are many. Politicians etc have to break things down into small understandable sound bites so that the idiots out there can grab a hold of something and vote the way they are told (regardless of which side/party)

    To really correct the problem you have to attack the root causes. .. things to look at are issues that address the supply and demand of the labor pool.
    Illegal Immigration. H1b visas...and we'll work visas of all kinds... taxes on imports and the tax breaks given to companies that ship jobs over seas.

    Some will say labor competition is good...and in a perfect world that might true but in reality it is only good for the companies as it keeps wages low...but we don't live in a perfect world.

    Some ignorant fools want people to believe that all it takes to get ahead is to just get a better job...and that is true if it is possible.... but they take this and believe that every darn idiot out there is mentally capable... like some cashier at Walmart could be a neurosurgeon if she just applied herself ...never mind her iq is like 85... she is the next great thinker of our time... she doesn't even have the abilities to do much more than what she is doing... bit the jobs that are just above cashier are not there anymore.

    For those that are barely capable of college they are faced with staggering expenses....100 k in student loans to get a 30-40 k job? Lol....


    Illegal immigration and work visas and outsourcing etc have all put downward pressure on wages. It isn't like people say that people are lazy....it is that companies don't pay enough to make it worthwhile in msny cases. And in many cases this is cause they operate in grey areas of the law....cause companies are doing what is best for them, which they should.

    Imagine if every illegal alien and visa wotker was magically sent home to their country and they magically could not come back. .... the labor market would see a shortage and in order to fill vacancies companies would have to pay more in wages to attract and hold onto wotkers....that is how supply and demand works.


    I won't continue to ramble on cause you will disagree...not from a logical standpoint but from a you have been told xyz standpoint and don't want to think for yourself standpoint.

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    I agree with you on alot of what you said, illegal immigration sure lowers incomes, but my point is, the democrats all try to pull this "income equality" Like raising the minimum wage. OK, that sounds good to some highschool student working at Burger King, then all of a sudden he or she is only making a few dollars an hour less then someone with a job or trade they went to school for and have been working there for 10 yrs. This doesnt make sense at all. Thats where the $10 dollar burger come into play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wethepeople View Post
    I agree with you on alot of what you said, illegal immigration sure lowers incomes, but my point is, the democrats all try to pull this "income equality" Like raising the minimum wage. OK, that sounds good to some highschool student working at Burger King, then all of a sudden he or she is only making a few dollars an hour less then someone with a job or trade they went to school for and have been working there for 10 yrs. This doesnt make sense at all. Thats where the $10 dollar burger come into play.
    I think what you would see is the trades would be forced to increase their wages as well in order to keep their skilled labor. Imagine if you will..... Bob is a plumber he gets $15 an hour(I have no idea what they make but let's just assume he is a skilled worker)...he does back breaking work. The min wage goes up to 15. If his employer does not up his pay Bob's mobility (opportunities ) in the workforce go way up and he should leave for an easier job with the same pay.... but wait this is nothing new...this is how it has always been ...employers always have to pay premiums for skill.

    I am not so fool hardy as to believe that wage increases will not impact the prices of goods sold but I don't think it will be the sky is falling scenario that businesses and politicians, paid by businesses, want you to believe.

    The Republican base/party is missing a huge opportunity to greatly curtail welfare. They could say we will raise the min wage in exchange for a drastic cut in welfare. I don't know about you but I would rather see people work for money rather than get it free or as a subsidy...
    The problem is that the reality is that companies benefit greatly from welfare and have no intention of getting rid of their subsidized workforce and built in customers of cheap crappy products. The other thing is welfare keeps crime manageable.....it is like a bribe...we keep you fed so you don't rob people's homes/businesses to pay for your food.

    The people that inflation/price increases really hurt are retirees cause they are no longer working and experiencing those wage increases...but inflation has always been there and should have been a part of their retirement plan.


    In discussions like these it is good to know who you are talking to and debating with.... people always have a vested interest in protecting/ improving their lives. A lot of times a business owner is involved in a discussion like this and so are the worker bees...obviously they will have biased views on what should happen. And they are often on opposite ends of the spectrum....And justly so as they should do what is best for them.
    I am a IT consultant in a very specialized category...live in Texas and make a 6 figure income...I have a vested interest in limiting visa workers in the tech field and outsourcing...cause while they are not necessarily directly competing with me they suppress overall IT pay and thus impact my wages.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

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