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Thread: The sigh heard across the world.

  1. #1
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Angry The sigh heard across the world.

    Not really, though, more like the sigh heard across the store, or the sigh heard across the waiting line at subway.

    So last night about 2am I woke up from bed with a growling belly, and a near-empty fridge. Friday's paycheck having been put mostly into buying the tools I need to take out the inboard motor on my new old boat, so I hadn't bothered to get groceries. Anyway, got my self dressed as best I could in a hungry and sleepy state, and slapped on my .45LC ruger revolver; I don't like to go out at night unarmed, even if its to a truck stop in a well-lit area. So, I make my way up to the Pilot truck stop near me, which has a 24hr subway. Make my way in, trying to decide if I wanted a sub, or the choke n' puke mcdonalds, then eventually resigning to having subway. Unfortunately, the time of night must have been such that one of the factorie's night-shifts ended, because there was a line of about five people at the subway station.

    Now, I've never had any problems open carrying in the truck stop, or at the subway station within, or at the McD's either, I've OC'd plenty of times at different hours of the day and night at many different subway stores, and in-station stores, and have never once been asked to leave or anything of the such. So, I wasn't expecting anything out of the ordinary in my haze of hunger and single-minded viewing of the different meat options. So, I'm standing in line, leaning against a table, waiting for my turn in line. Nothing special, nothing eventful. Two people get their orders, and move out of the way, three people and myself left in line.

    A state trooper walks in, and comes up behind me, i eased my head around to glance at him, we caught each others gaze, nodded and said our hellos, but that was it, just a hungry OC'er, and a hungry statie in line.

    Boring so far, isn't it? Don't worry, it's about to get less boring.

    one of the subway clerks is a trainee, and has to ask the assistant manager about how much veggies to use on EACH and EVERY sandwich. So something that shouldn't take that much time, turns into a half an hour wait for food. But hey, I like subway, and I'm determined to stuff my face with food.

    I noticed the statie sigh heavily, and walked over to the McD station. Just as he left, a guy and a girl, a couple that is, walked in and took their place behind me. The line moves up a bit, and now I'm second in line.

    I checked my watch, 2:37am. Without skipping a beat, I just barely heard the guy behind me say to the woman next to him; "bet it's fake, fa**ots cant carry". then, by the blessing of the gods of stupidity and non-thinking, I felt someone grab and jerk my pistol. Caught somewhat off-guard by the action, and fuming at the anti-gay slur, I turned and looked as the guy let go of my revolver, loaded with 180gr .45 Long colt hallowpoints, six rounds, six chambers. My retention holster kept the pistol in place. This idiot, stood about 5'10", a little shorter than myself, his girlfriend about the same height as him. Both sorta heavyset, and wearing tan colored shirts. My hand snapped down to grab my pistol's handle, and I unsnapped the retention strap, in case I had to draw, but the pistol stayed in its comfy holster. The guy caught me off guard again by uttering between mouth-breathing breathes, loudly spoke in a means to get attention; "What're you gonna do f*gboy?"

    Now, this all happened within the time span of about a minute, or two. I'm next in line, I'm hungry, I'm tired cuz I woke up a couple hours after going to bed, and I really like to get a full ten hours of sleep, so I was kinda cranky.

    Pistol in the holster, snap band unsnapped, hand on the pistol's grip, staring at a guy that had the audacity to not only grab my pistol, but to insult me while he was at it, and insult me to my face. The only thing going through my mind at the time was; "Don't do this to me." What neither myself, nor the idiot and his woman noticed, was the statie that had been standing about fifteen feet away, munching on his french fries, watching us the whole time, not doing anything, not saying anything, just enjoying his french fries and the show.

    The idiot stepped up to me and squared his shoulders, looked me square in the eyes, "Get lost 'for you get hurt". I'm standing my ground. I'm hungry, I'm tired, I'm very acutely aware of things, my hand has a death grip on my pistol in it's holster. All I said to the guy was; "Sir, step back and stand down, I am legally armed and will defend myself if provoked". Statie walks over, puts his greasy hand on the guy's shoulder, pushed him back some, but his other hand on my shoulder, and squeezed. "Easy guys, it's been a long night, and I don't wanna have to lock you both up."

    So, let go of my pistol and snapped the snap-strap on the holster, and relaxed a bit, the statie told me to wait, and moved the idiot over to chat with them. I let out a heavy sigh and ordered my food while I waited. Picking the veggies I want, and the sauce I want, the statie comes up to me, and simply says; "My advice, get rid of the pink hair, and don't wear that thing in the open" before patting my shoulder and walking away.

    --- Long story short: Someone grabbed my gun, insulted me twice, was delayed in getting food, inconvienenced, and told by a cop to not open carry.

    [Taking from the star trek episodes intro] These are the mis-adventures of DrakeZ07, his mission, to seek out food and entertaining when it beckons him, to open carry at-will, and to always find himself a magnet for trouble, like it or not. [que TOS theme].

    There's so many things wrong with what happened last night, that I'm virtually stuck in a permanent face-palm. Like, what idiot thinks its a good idea to GRAB SOMEONES HOLSTERED GUN?! What idiot thinks its a good idea to use a slur to insult someone WEARING A HOLSTERED GUN?! what idiot statie thinks its a fantastic idea to stand out of the way, eating french fries, and watch as someone verbally assualts a guy with a holstered gun, and challenging them in a confrontational manner, AND NOT STEP IN at the very moment things go from an insult, to a grab?! Is this what my tax money is going towards? I don't much care for LEOs in the first place, but they have a job to do, and that job is protect and serve, not stand by idly watching things and eating and not saying anything until the very moment that something is on the verge of happening.

    HEY! I'M GONNA STAND HERE LIKE AN IDIOT AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ANOTHER IDIOT MAKES A GRAB AND CONFRONTS A OPEN CARRIER! *retarded sounds*. THEN I'M GOING TO TELL THE OPEN CARRIER TO GET RID OF HIS PINK HAIR AND TO NOT OPEN CARRY IN THE FUTURE! I'M A GOOD COP, NOW IM GONNA GO STUFF MY FACE.

    I'm still peeved off about it, even though I had my sammich, and I slept relatively well when I got home. Ugh, I just wanna slap something, ya know? The stupidity, ignorence, and sheer laziness of my fellow man, uniformed or not, makes me want to just live in a concrete bunker and never leave it.

    I'm not saying its a commonplace thing for me, it's actually a one-in-ten occurance that I come across someone who thinks is all fine and dandy to use the F-slur towards me, or a cop that says I shouldn't OC. But one-in-ten is still too common for my own tastes. I mean, sure, I could change my hair to my normal colour, and sure, I could conceal carry, I'd probably have fewer encounters with stupid people, but no. Why should -I- have to change anything about myself, just to please someone else?

    Stuff like that makes me want to move to a well-populated city, for the acceptance of who and what I am, that living and being in the rural areas doesn't yield, but then it's a unpleasent trade off for acceptance of who/what I am, but in turn I'd probably be more susceptible to people being confrontative and mouthy about my OC rig. I wish I could find a place to live where I could OC and be /very/ open of my sexuality, without having some idiot come up and try to challenge or get a thrill, from me.

    [Screw spelling, too peeved. also, /end rant.]
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  2. #2
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    Dangit Drake, you know better than to challenge those whose shoe size is higher than their IQ! (said with tongue firmly planted in cheek)

    On a serious note, it sucks that anyone has to put up with such boorish and insulting behavior, and kudos to you for keeping a level head through it.

    If I knew of a place where you could move to that accepts all lifestyles without prejudice, I would happily let you know.

    The sad part is, the knucklehead probably didn't learn a thing from the encounter.

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Drake, I'd say you let an extremely good teaching moment go by. What occurred was at least assault and likely assault & battery with a LEO as a witness, yet you did not pursue it. Your choice.

    I would not have been so gracious.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ...What occurred was at least assault and likely assault & battery with a LEO as a witness, yet you did not pursue it...
    That's how I read it. Formal written complaints to the state police asking if the cop made an incident report, and asking why there was no arrest made, need to be filed immediately. Document the lack of concern by the officer for egregious crimes against you. Document his greatest concern being his own meal being interrupted by "having to lock up" everyone involved, including the victim. Ask for his qualifications for giving legal and fashion advice.
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-17-2015 at 02:45 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  5. #5
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    @Grape & MAC; Yea, I know I had every right to pursue the problem with charges of assualt, and whatnot, and honestly if it was any other time or day, I probably would have, but sometimes the munchies over-ride anything else, a lesson learned for the next time it happens.

    I didn't catch the cop's name, number, or anything, as I was too wrapped up with the idiot in front of me, so I dunno if the KSP would take a formal complaint or action regarding the trooper, best I could do was to describe his face, and the lack of any rank on his sleeves, but then again, I rarely ever see a statie with stripes or other notifying features. There was no report taken, that I could note of, he talked to the offending guy and his woman, then he said his 'advice' to me, and moved along, he may have took notes, but I have to say that if the trooper was more concerned about his food than what was going on around him, I doubt he'd take time away from his meal to make a report or some such.

    @Bonez; Darn it man, I know, I know, I shouldn't go around as if I live in a free country, strutting around with my odd-hair, and my gun... I just forget these things sometimes. [Tongue-in-cheek acknowledged, returned.]
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  6. #6
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    I hope the cop explained to the gun-grabber the peril he thoughtlessly risked.

    I decided long ago that a hand on my holstered gun from behind gets instantaneous violence at maximum effort. I have to assume whoever is trying to unholster it intends to use it against me. The only modification is the elbow and rotation will be at a height intended to strike an out-of-vision adult. This just in case some kid is curious.

    Too many incidents where a cop was disarmed and his gun used against him.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-17-2015 at 03:28 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
    Regular Member FBrinson's Avatar
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    Were you audio recording?

  8. #8
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    I carry a CRKT M16-14ZSF ( http://www.crkt.com/M16-14-Z-Desert-...WKS-Combo-Edge ) hinge down which can be opened on the draw by snagging the lower flipper on the rear corner of my left front pocket, and I practice just that.

    In a similar situation there would be blood on the floor; as I carry a 1911 style auto in a forward cant pancake holster under my right elbow (3:00) the grabber would have to be "nut to butt" to get it out of the holster. Once drawn the knife would be used for what I like to think of as "operation castration". If the grabber was a bit further back, spin and slice the abdomen from hip bone to hip bone and then some more cuts, and the blade is kept shaving sharp.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    I carry a CRKT M16-14ZSF ( http://www.crkt.com/M16-14-Z-Desert-...WKS-Combo-Edge ) hinge down which can be opened on the draw by snagging the lower flipper on the rear corner of my left front pocket, and I practice just that.

    In a similar situation there would be blood on the floor; as I carry a 1911 style auto in a forward cant pancake holster under my right elbow (3:00) the grabber would have to be "nut to butt" to get it out of the holster. Once drawn the knife would be used for what I like to think of as "operation castration". If the grabber was a bit further back, spin and slice the abdomen from hip bone to hip bone and then some more cuts, and the blade is kept shaving sharp.
    Makes sense. I would just hate to slice open the throat of an eight-year old. I guess it boils down to whether you look first before you apply the counter-force.


    Separately, now I'm wondering. I wonder if one of the standard tactics for an attack from behind would work. You know, step slightly back and left with you right leg to position it so his left leg is "outside", grab his right hand (on your gun), then reach over your left shoulder to grab (hair, shirt, whatever), and then judo flip him over your right hip. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-17-2015 at 05:19 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Very interesting, I see the LEO's actions from a different viewpoint. The officer didn't get involved until he thought things were going to go bad, and at that point got himself between you and the other guy. The cop acted as a "Peace Officer" instead of a " Law Enforcement Officer" which is what they should do. The confrontation ended, peace resumed, and he went on his way.

    The LEO pulled the guy to the side and most likely warned him about his foolish actions toward you, and gave him some advice on his future behavior while being in public.

    You might not like anti-homosexual slurs, but if someone thinks your a f****t and says it, so what, as the saying goes, sticks and stones.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    Very interesting, I see the LEO's actions from a different viewpoint. The officer didn't get involved until he thought things were going to go bad, and at that point got himself between you and the other guy. The cop acted as a "Peace Officer" instead of a " Law Enforcement Officer" which is what they should do. The confrontation ended, peace resumed, and he went on his way. ...
    Things went bad at the moment the a-hole grabbed the victim's firearm!

    The cop ignored assault and battery: arrestable, chargeable offenses.

    By your admission that "peace resumed," you acknowledge at the least that someone broke the peace, also an offense.

    This was not a confrontation because of an accident. It was the deliberate aggressive act against an individual, and completely independent of any slurs.
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-17-2015 at 07:55 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    This is the second time in about 6 months that Drake has been assaulted and he posted about it here. The two events are similar in that he was not recording, he was unexpectedly attacked, the attacker could not be identified (in the last one, even the KSP trooper could not be identified), they both happened in a food service area and Drake did not think that either event was worthy of his filing a complaint (even though a LEO witnessed this last one) and there is no written evidence of either event. This is certainly very bad luck for Drake, but it provokes several questions in my mind;
    1. When will Drake learn that recording is necessary if you walk around OC or if you walk around gay? Two recorders if you do both.
    2. When will Drake learn that people learn faster if they are punished for their bad acts?
    3. When will Drake realize that prosecuting criminals is more important than a snack?
    4. When will Drake decide to improve his situational awareness?
    5. When will Drake stop OC'ing in places where others are in close proximity?
    6. Does Drake really want these things to stop happening to him or does he just want to keep complaining about them when they do happen?
    7. Will Drake do anything, for himself, in the future to make it more difficult for someone to get by with mistreating him like this again?
    Out of bounds comment.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Out of bounds comment.
    Honestly, I saw it the same as while armed. Both are legal activities. Both are openly demonstrative, while still minding your own business. Both are belittled by busy-bodies and cops. I viewed his comment as an exaggeration to show it needed (apparently in his area) for both activities, meaning doubly-needed to do it at all.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    This is the second time in about 6 months that Drake has been assaulted and he posted about it here. The two events are similar in that he was not recording, he was unexpectedly attacked, the attacker could not be identified (in the last one, even the KSP trooper could not be identified), they both happened in a food service area and Drake did not think that either event was worthy of his filing a complaint (even though a LEO witnessed this last one) and there is no written evidence of either event. This is certainly very bad luck for Drake, but it provokes several questions in my mind;
    1. When will Drake learn that recording is necessary if you walk around OC or if you walk around gay? Two recorders if you do both.
    2. When will Drake learn that people learn faster if they are punished for their bad acts?
    3. When will Drake realize that prosecuting criminals is more important than a snack?
    4. When will Drake decide to improve his situational awareness?
    5. When will Drake stop OC'ing in places where others are in close proximity?
    6. Does Drake really want these things to stop happening to him or does he just want to keep complaining about them when they do happen?
    7. Will Drake do anything, for himself, in the future to make it more difficult for someone to get by with mistreating him like this again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Out of bounds comment.
    How so?

    Only changes I might make is to delete "When will Drake" and substitute "Drake needs to " in numbers 1-5.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Yea, I know my situational awareness is utter crap, i mean I'll glance around from time to time, but SitAware is something that I really do need to work on. I do get easily distracted though, but that's probably not a good excuse, I mean-- oooh, lookitthatashinyitem!

    I kinda always laughed at the CQB/Hand-to-Hand courses, as a false sense of security, like, something that anti-gun people teach as a good alternative for a would-be attacking criminal, but with my bad luck, I think I may want to invest in one of those courses, cuz when the incident happened, the only thing I did was unsnap my holster and put my body in a ready-position to draw. I've had cases and times that I've not really spoke of openly, where someone would use a slur or approach me, and all it took was the un-snapping of the retention snap, to make them re-consider their actions, so I sorta was relying on that act alone to pay off again. [Not that I do such things everytime someone calls me a F**].

    I was audio recording with my phone, as I do whenever I OC since the last run in that was of posting worthiness. But I'm keeping that for if I need a audio sampling to help identify the officer involved.

    @Gutshot, I know, I'm like the biggest magnet of bad luck. But you know you like reading my posted complaints, and making all of our eyes bleed with bolded criticisms, I wouldn't expect anything less from you, babe~

    @OC Freedom, I do see what you're saying, and I could understand from the point-of-view you stated, but shouldn't a LEO/PO have arrested the person anyway, whether or not the victim wanted to press charges? I thought if a cop sees something happen that is criminal in nature, they didn't have to have the offendee's consent, to do their job, but then again I'm not one to talk, I should have persued the matter, instead of worrying about feeding my face. Should'a Could'a Would'a.

    I've been thinking a bit on my mode of carry, as in, I always carry on my right hip, due 3 'O clock, I've tried to carry closer to the front, and directly in the front, but the positions aren't really that comfortable, and out of personal preference that I don't carry the way Gutshot does. Is it time to revise that stratergy, or maybe once-in-awhile make use of my Gov't permission slip to CC? I really don't like to CC in the warmer months, mainly because I really like my carry pistols, and kinda like to think that, say, the brass on my 1858 navy revolver would look better in the open than under my shirt, or that my carved chestnut revolver grips would have been money spent for nothing, if they was hidden. I dunno, though.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
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  16. #16
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Out of bounds comment.
    Noticed it too, but I wouldn't say it's out-of-bounds, Gutshot may be old and cranky, but he doesn't come across as the type of teddy-bear-like guy who'd say something with intent to cause harm, like how some of the kids today say the g@y word, but it means like someone who is annoying, but isn't the same anti-gay slur that people like me, and older people attribute the word to mean.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  17. #17
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    drake, walk the earth as you feel comfortable ~ tis your life!!

    however, instead of hand to hand or knives, which cut both ways, my suggestion...try to keep those behind you in lines at least a foot behind...i'm even been known to turn around and fake a sneeze w/o cover towards the transgressors of my space.

    only other suggestion is avoid the bar closing rush to grab food...

    i personally think you handled it quite nicely, yes, Monday quarterbacking notwithstanding, i'm sure it would be pleasant if the nice trooper wasn't condescending but eh...you went home in one peace, er, piece...hopefully to enjoy your sub.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-17-2015 at 08:34 PM.
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  18. #18
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    What **** people are. I know everyone has some advice and it's all good stuff from what I'm reading, but I understand the desire to just continue on your way and not deal with the supreme headache most of the advice would have caused. I'm pretty sure after that pig-**** cop walked away I would have called 911. In any case this incident makes me seethe and I'm sorry you had to deal with it.
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  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Yea, I know my situational awareness is utter crap, i mean I'll glance around from time to time, but SitAware is something that I really do need to work on. I do get easily distracted though, but that's probably not a good excuse, I mean-- oooh, lookitthatashinyitem!

    I kinda always laughed at the CQB/Hand-to-Hand courses, as a false sense of security, like, something that anti-gun people teach as a good alternative for a would-be attacking criminal, but with my bad luck, I think I may want to invest in one of those courses, cuz when the incident happened, the only thing I did was unsnap my holster and put my body in a ready-position to draw. I've had cases and times that I've not really spoke of openly, where someone would use a slur or approach me, and all it took was the un-snapping of the retention snap, to make them re-consider their actions, so I sorta was relying on that act alone to pay off again. [Not that I do such things everytime someone calls me a F**].

    I was audio recording with my phone, as I do whenever I OC since the last run in that was of posting worthiness. But I'm keeping that for if I need a audio sampling to help identify the officer involved.

    @Gutshot, I know, I'm like the biggest magnet of bad luck. But you know you like reading my posted complaints, and making all of our eyes bleed with bolded criticisms, I wouldn't expect anything less from you, babe~

    @OC Freedom, I do see what you're saying, and I could understand from the point-of-view you stated, but shouldn't a LEO/PO have arrested the person anyway, whether or not the victim wanted to press charges? I thought if a cop sees something happen that is criminal in nature, they didn't have to have the offendee's consent, to do their job, but then again I'm not one to talk, I should have persued the matter, instead of worrying about feeding my face. Should'a Could'a Would'a.

    I've been thinking a bit on my mode of carry, as in, I always carry on my right hip, due 3 'O clock, I've tried to carry closer to the front, and directly in the front, but the positions aren't really that comfortable, and out of personal preference that I don't carry the way Gutshot does. Is it time to revise that stratergy, or maybe once-in-awhile make use of my Gov't permission slip to CC? I really don't like to CC in the warmer months, mainly because I really like my carry pistols, and kinda like to think that, say, the brass on my 1858 navy revolver would look better in the open than under my shirt, or that my carved chestnut revolver grips would have been money spent for nothing, if they was hidden. I dunno, though.
    Those suggesting charges have a good point as does OC Freedom as to a possible motivation for the actions of the cop. Not having been there it is always difficult to discern subtleties of body language, actions and intents.

    Drake, sometimes it just doesn't make good sense to carry, for lack of a better term, as a fashion statement. Nothing wrong with carrying a handsome gun and Lord knows I like it when people notice when I am open carrying one of the pretty ones instead of the plastic brick and start a conversation about it. But I don't want that at WalMart at 2 am. If I am tired and distracted like after a 15 hour work day, or if I am going to be in crowds for hours, I choose to CC because in the first case I know my situational awareness is blah and in the 2nd, that I don't want to have to work that hard to maintain the level of situational awareness to OC. So yes, when the situation is appropriate and suits me, I choose between CC and OC. It kinda goes along with the discretion is the better part of valor concept.

    Lastly, unsnapping the retention snap as a deterrent is an iffy move. Probably get you in pretty big trouble some places if you weren't already justified in drawing your weapon. I know I would take it as an overt threat.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  20. #20
    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Things went bad at the moment the a-hole grabbed the victim's firearm!

    The cop ignored assault and battery: arrestable, chargeable offenses.

    By your admission that "peace resumed," you acknowledge at the least that someone broke the peace, also an offense.

    This was not a confrontation because of an accident. It was the deliberate aggressive act against an individual, and completely independent of any slurs.

    Why are so many people trained by the state to be so litigious for every little offense? Do you want to get involved with our so called justice system when the only injury that actually happened were slurs and a poor attempt at a gun grab. Drake, by his accounts secured his pistol and faced the guy, and at this point he took control of the situation. Drake was not physically hit, he was not bleeding, the only thing that happened was that he was angry and most likely had his adrenaline spiking. Drake could have insisted to the officer that he wanted to press charges right then, but he did not as far as we know. No, it's much better not to get involved with LEO's or the court system, even if you might be the victim in my opinion.

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post

    @OC Freedom, I do see what you're saying, and I could understand from the point-of-view you stated, but shouldn't a LEO/PO have arrested the person anyway, whether or not the victim wanted to press charges? I thought if a cop sees something happen that is criminal in nature, they didn't have to have the offendee's consent, to do their job, but then again I'm not one to talk, I should have persued the matter, instead of worrying about feeding my face. Should'a Could'a Would'a.
    Yes, the officer could have arrested the person anyway, but since he didn't, it became your choice to either press for an arrest or just let the whole matter go. I myself like freedom of choice and not have Johnny law make it for me, but hey, that's just me.

    Remember those very wise men of-----> DEVO

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVGINIsLnqU

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    Why are so many people trained by the state to be so litigious for every little offense? Do you want to get involved with our so called justice system when the only injury that actually happened were slurs and a poor attempt at a gun grab. ...
    "Litigious" has to do with lawsuits. Where we differ is the seriousness of the criminality of an aggressive person grabbing a person's gun.

    Would you feel differently if the a-hole had grabbed the cop's gun, with or without "pig" slurs? If so, that's wrong.
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-18-2015 at 12:44 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    What occurred was at least assault and likely assault & battery with a LEO as a witness, yet you did not pursue it. Your choice.

    I would not have been so gracious.


    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Things went bad at the moment the a-hole grabbed the victim's firearm!

    This was not a confrontation because of an accident. It was the deliberate aggressive act against an individual, and completely independent of any slurs.
    As Grape said......"I would not have been so gracious."
    I train for this and have used that training in the past. If you are close enough to touch my weapon, I am close enough to crush your throat. Sounds rough, but your voice will change if you attempt to take my weapon. Elbow is the proper tool for this exercise. Do not hesitate, do not falter, do not think(that is why you train), ACT.


    As Mac said......This was a crime and there should have been charges. The BG got away with assaulting a "***" and probably feels empowered by it. He will do it again. Again, I would not have been so gracious. You can still pursue charges.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  24. #24
    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    "Litigious" has to do with lawsuits. Where we differ is the seriousness of the criminality of an aggressive person grabbing a person's gun.

    Would you feel differently if the a-hole had grabbed the cop's gun, with or without "pig" slurs? If so, that's wrong.

    I was thinking more of involving the law in "litigious" yes, I could have chosen my wording better. We do differ on criminality of an aggressors actions, I do not feel its necessary to involve the law for such a minor issue, this guy was just a standard bully, lacking common sense, let it go and move on.

    If this happened to a cop, it's the cop's business and it surely is not mine. The officer can make his own decision on how he wants to deal with it. So as they say we will agree to disagree.

    litigious
    /lɪˈtɪdʒəs/
    adjective
    1.
    excessively ready to go to law
    2.
    of or relating to litigation
    3.
    inclined to dispute or disagree

  25. #25
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    Cool

    I have to ask would this be exit 28 off 71 ? I do not post much but is there going to be another dinner any time soon his talk of food make me want some.
    Side note to OP you been to play?

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