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The sigh heard across the world.

BB62

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Not really, though, more like the sigh heard across the store, or the sigh heard across the waiting line at subway...
Thank you for sharing your experience, but you really out to face facts rather than dismiss gutshot's questions/comments so blithely.

Quit feeling sorry for yourself/powerless/not worthy/whatever and take action.
 

DrakeZ07

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I agree on all points.

And the fact that there has not been an on-point reply to your queries answers the question thus: "Not for the foreseeable future".

And of course, it's all your fault for pointing out, via your questions, what is painfully clear to everyone else.

<sigh heard across the world>

Pardon me, BB62, but I hadn't made any comment that suggest Gutshot was at fault for his pointing-out-of-my-lackings; I even re-read my response to ensure that I hadn't made mention of him being at fault.

Yea, I admitted it, and came to terms, that my Situtational Awareness, from time to time, begs addressing and strengthening; At the time of the incident, I was hungry, and tired, and any person who was in my position, and was not military trained, would have had less-than-optimal situational awareness. But I'm not making a point to defend, and say its okay to be bad at SA, I'm just saying that, yes I had poor SA and poor judgement of my surroundings, and yes I was far more concerned with eating and getting fed, than I was of punishing someone who verbally and possibly psyically assaulted me; and for both items, I am at fault. Please, I ask, don't read into Gutshots', or my own, comments as fault-pointing, more as Gutshot pointing out an obvious trait that I am guilty of showing on more than one occasion, and myself admitting to not being on-par as often as I should be.

I do wish to ask the people who are engaging in the debate about the actions, or in-actions, of the officer involved; I appreciate that you all have an interest in what should have been done, and what could have taken place, but it's not helping anyone that the conversation derailed things. Sure, my post was a complaint, and an admission of my failings during a possibly-construed hostile encounter, but that doesn't mean we have to go on at-length in a distracting manner. I'll leave it up to a moderator to decide if the post should be locked, or to let the conversation continue. My intent was to make people aware of what happened to myself, because I could. And because I was wanting to share my experiance with others, as is our duty on a forum dedicated to our cause, we should, and must, inform our fellows, of all our encounters, good, bad, ugly, nice, pretty, mean, boring, thrilling, so that others can learn and can discuss what should have, could have, would have, been done differently.

Just please, don't fight amongst each other.

Also, my appologies for my late response, I had to spend four hours yesterday decided which of the many verieties of pork, and beef ribs I wanted to buy for the grilling tomorrow at cave run lake that I'll be having with my brother, and his wife.
 
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Grapeshot

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We are all fallible humans with strengths, weaknesses, and areas that could stand improvement.

Thank you DrakeZ07 for sharing your experience with us. We teach and learn from each other.

Enjoy your cookout with your family.
 

BB62

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Pardon me, BB62, but I hadn't made any comment that suggest Gutshot was at fault for his pointing-out-of-my-lackings; I even re-read my response to ensure that I hadn't made mention of him being at fault.

Yea, I admitted it, and came to terms, that my Situtational Awareness, from time to time, begs addressing and strengthening; At the time of the incident, I was hungry, and tired, and any person who was in my position, and was not military trained, would have had less-than-optimal situational awareness. But I'm not making a point to defend, and say its okay to be bad at SA, I'm just saying that, yes I had poor SA and poor judgement of my surroundings, and yes I was far more concerned with eating and getting fed, than I was of punishing someone who verbally and possibly psyically assaulted me; and for both items, I am at fault. Please, I ask, don't read into Gutshots', or my own, comments as fault-pointing, more as Gutshot pointing out an obvious trait that I am guilty of showing on more than one occasion, and myself admitting to not being on-par as often as I should be.

I do wish to ask the people who are engaging in the debate about the actions, or in-actions, of the officer involved; I appreciate that you all have an interest in what should have been done, and what could have taken place, but it's not helping anyone that the conversation derailed things. Sure, my post was a complaint, and an admission of my failings during a possibly-construed hostile encounter, but that doesn't mean we have to go on at-length in a distracting manner. I'll leave it up to a moderator to decide if the post should be locked, or to let the conversation continue. My intent was to make people aware of what happened to myself, because I could. And because I was wanting to share my experiance with others, as is our duty on a forum dedicated to our cause, we should, and must, inform our fellows, of all our encounters, good, bad, ugly, nice, pretty, mean, boring, thrilling, so that others can learn and can discuss what should have, could have, would have, been done differently.

Just please, don't fight amongst each other.

Also, my appologies for my late response, I had to spend four hours yesterday decided which of the many verieties of pork, and beef ribs I wanted to buy for the grilling tomorrow at cave run lake that I'll be having with my brother, and his wife.
First, I didn't say that YOU faulted Gutshot, I was simply saying that it's his fault that he points out, repeatedly, things that you would rather not respond to/deal with. It was a joking jab at him for being so on-point.

Second, you seem to want to reduce things to your lack of SA and then go on to ask that people not discuss ("...but it's not helping anyone that the conversation derailed things.") certain portions of the encounter. This is simply silly and as far as I'm concerned continues to demonstrate that you close your eyes to that which you don't want to deal with: the totality of the encounter and your reaction/lack thereof to various parts of it (at the time and since then).

Third, carry how and where you want, respond or not how you want, but to suggest that the thread should be examined for possible locking because I essentially gave a "+1" that disrupts your delicate sensibilities? Really??

If you, I, or anyone else posts an experience here with the expectation that they will receive nothing but "atta boys" or that the conversation will stay focused on only what you, I, or anyone else deems significant or not troubling, I think they need to develop a better sense of reality.
 

Sundiver

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Mar 18, 2010
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Somerset
"5. When will Drake stop OC'ing in places where others are in close proximity?"

Maybe I'm missing something, or perhaps I'm the one in need of education but my question is in relation to number 5 quoted above: Given how this is an open carry forum and not concealed carry. I can think of many, many situations where we open carry in close proximity to others. What are the alternatives? Other than conceal carry or not carry at all if we know we're going to be in a crowd?

The latter would seem to defeat the purpose since we can all name many mass shootings that all take place in a "close proximity" environment. For that matter, what exactly is close proximity in these regards? I agree with the other ones listed but this one really has me scratching my head.

Sun.

PS: Not only that if we choose not to OC because we know we're going to be in close proximity we're letting a crowd dictate our actions in regards to our Right to carry. Please elaborate?
 

WalkingWolf

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OC in a close environment with people crowding and jostling you is a recipe for a gun grab and/or a unintentional discharge. Yes, I do let outside influences decide if I will OC, CC or No C. It is foolish to do differently. With CC, no one knows the gun is there and the chances of a grab attempt are small. If the gun unintentionally discharges, it is you and you alone that touched the trigger. OC'ing blindly into just any situation will eventually lead to serious problems, for you or someone else. I do not think that OC is appropriate in every situation. OC'ing into some situations is negligence, IMHO. There are times that you might have to OC into a crowd. If that ever arises, you must be very careful and very aware of what's going on around you. If you are unable or unwilling to do those things then you should not OC in that situation. OC requires a lot more attention than CC. If you can't give that attention, OC is a bad option.

With CC you look like a helpless victim. But that is fine for you, I will continue to OC despite your claims.
 

solus

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OK Gut, i'm not copying your giant fonted post, you know what you stated in this thread...

but i am certainly confused by your statement alluding to crowded environments perpetrating a 'gun grab' followed by your statement of, how did you word it? oh ya, right...quote ...and/or a (sic) unintentional discharge unquote so you will change carry styles to CC!!

R E A L L Y?

sorry, but are you participating in the emergency evacuation of some facility where the crowd pushes or jostles you around and in a crowd of idiot savants where some FOOOOO, a member of your JQP crowd just flips out in an insane moment, so out of the blue will attempt or even consider a 'gun grab'?

then you follow that preposterous statement up by leading us to believe the crowd could precipitate an unintentional discharge? BAD CROWD!!

first, let's talk about the gun grab...if mem serves me, and it might be faulty, but i believe the august readership of this forum has waited with bated breath for one, just one mind you, verifiable cite of an OC'r losing their firearm from a gun grab.

and if the firearm by your side is scared of the crowd so it 'unintentionally discharges' i think it needs to visit the gunsmith.

where oh where is your SA gut...?

and SA complacency is viable consideration whether an individual OC or CC.
ipse
 
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56brd

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I believe Gutshot to be correct in his reasoning. He didn't say no one should ever open carry in a crowd. He simply stated that in his opinion, it would not be the best choice.

We all know it is our right to open carry, and I do carry openly whenever and wherever I feel I can do so legally and safely.

I also know I have the right to speak freely on any subject I would however think it might not be a good idea to enter a known biker bar yelling all bikers are candy asses.
 

WalkingWolf

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I believe Gutshot to be correct in his reasoning. He didn't say no one should ever open carry in a crowd. He simply stated that in his opinion, it would not be the best choice.

We all know it is our right to open carry, and I do carry openly whenever and wherever I feel I can do so legally and safely.

I also know I have the right to speak freely on any subject I would however think it might not be a good idea to enter a known biker bar yelling all bikers are candy asses.

In his opinion for HIM, he does not get the choice to decide for others, opinion or not.
 

deepdiver

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I don't think Gutshot was trying to decide for anyone else. He was offering his opinion. I share much of his opinion. I generally choose not to OC if I know I am going to be in a crowd for a time or may untuck a shirt and cover if I unexpectedly end up in a crowd for a length of time. With CC, usually just a shirt or jacket hanging over my sidearm, I feel I have a bit more protection against a unicorn incident of a gun grab.

And it isn't even a matter of the unicorn grab itself. If I have room to move I am a pretty big guy with a bit of training and would have much better than even odds of retaining my weapon against most assailants, however, in a crowd, there is limited room to maneuver to maintain control and along with the tunnel vision that comes with combat, in a scrap it could be nearly impossible to watch for any bad guy confederates that may join the fray. I'm not afraid or doubting or even worried, but sometimes one just chooses to go with the least hassle as they see things at the time.

So yeah, I usually choose to CC in those circumstances. As long as it is MY choice and not gov't's choice, then I think that is a good thing. Anyone else is free to carry as they see fit and as is legal wherever they are.
 

WalkingWolf

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OC in a close environment with people crowding and jostling you is a recipe for a gun grab and/or a unintentional discharge. Yes, I do let outside influences decide if I will OC, CC or No C. It is foolish to do differently. With CC, no one knows the gun is there and the chances of a grab attempt are small. If the gun unintentionally discharges, it is you and you alone that touched the trigger. OC'ing blindly into just any situation will eventually lead to serious problems, for you or someone else. I do not think that OC is appropriate in every situation. OC'ing into some situations is negligence, IMHO. There are times that you might have to OC into a crowd. If that ever arises, you must be very careful and very aware of what's going on around you. If you are unable or unwilling to do those things then you should not OC in that situation. OC requires a lot more attention than CC. If you can't give that attention, OC is a bad option.

I think it is as crystal clear as red is to a bull that he was not just talking about himself.
 

deepdiver

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I think it is as crystal clear as red is to a bull that he was not just talking about himself.

Yeah, but he did write "IMHO" and it isn't like he said that if someone didn't follow his opinion he was going to come to your house and give you a noogie or wet willy. :p
(see what I did there with pronoun agreement mixing 3rd and 2nd person - don't call the Grammar Nazis on me)

Heck, most posts are opinions and whether first, second or third person or just bad grammar they have no effect on any other member's personal liberty or carry choices. I just don't see any reason to get bunged up about someone offering their opinion on what everyone should do generally speaking. Heck, if we did that all the time half the forum would be, "Oh yeah, well you can't tell me what kind of cheese to have on my sammich. That is my choice to make!ELEVENTY" :lol:
 
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BB62

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Yeah, but he did write "IMHO" and it isn't like he said that if someone didn't follow his opinion he was going to come to your house and give you a noogie or wet willy. :p
(see what I did there with pronoun agreement mixing 3rd and 2nd person - don't call the Grammar Nazis on me)

Heck, most posts are opinions and whether first, second or third person or just bad grammar they have no effect on any other member's personal liberty or carry choices. I just don't see any reason to get bunged up about someone offering their opinion on what everyone should do generally speaking. Heck, if we did that all the time half the forum would be, "Oh yeah, well you can't tell me what kind of cheese to have on my sammich. That is my choice to make!ELEVENTY" :lol:
You just don't understand that some people like arguing just for the sake of arguing, then, do you? ;) ;) WW is glad to oblige, as you've seen!
 

WalkingWolf

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Yeah, but he did write "IMHO" and it isn't like he said that if someone didn't follow his opinion he was going to come to your house and give you a noogie or wet willy. :p
(see what I did there with pronoun agreement mixing 3rd and 2nd person - don't call the Grammar Nazis on me)

Heck, most posts are opinions and whether first, second or third person or just bad grammar they have no effect on any other member's personal liberty or carry choices. I just don't see any reason to get bunged up about someone offering their opinion on what everyone should do generally speaking. Heck, if we did that all the time half the forum would be, "Oh yeah, well you can't tell me what kind of cheese to have on my sammich. That is my choice to make!ELEVENTY" :lol:

His opinion is clear that if YOU do not follow it YOU are negligent. There is absolutely no doubt about that, IMO.
 

J_dazzle23

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His opinion is clear that if YOU do not follow it YOU are negligent. There is absolutely no doubt about that, IMO.
He specifically states in text IMHO-

I don't really see anything wrong with a poster responding to an OP with his OPINION.....

Just sayin.

Isn't this forum filled with opinions?

Just say you disagree with his opinion, ww. If you don't think open carry in some situations is negligence, just come out and say it.
 

WalkingWolf

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He specifically states in text IMHO-

I don't really see anything wrong with a poster responding to an OP with his OPINION.....

Just sayin.

Isn't this forum filled with opinions?

Just say you disagree with his opinion, ww. If you don't think open carry in some situations is negligence, just come out and say it.

He specifically states that OC is negligent! The fact that it is his opinion does not change how offensive it is. He obviously believes it, except for outright facts, almost everything is an opinion.

My opinion is that others with offensive opinions can go pound sand.
 
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J_dazzle23

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To the op- I've lurked this thread for quite some time. Wanted to get a feel for it before I chime in.

If you are dressed/act like a playboy, and are carrying an open firearm to boot, I think it's common sense that people are(at times) going to act like complete fools toward you because they don't have even the most basic of social competence.

With that being the case, I would invest a little time and energy into yourself to learn how to handle/deter this stuff from happening. Maybe the way you carry yourself, or maybe improve your physical stature. You could take a social psychology class that may give you some ideas on how to avoid these situations.

Otoh, you could keep up the current activity, and take every opportunity to teach an ignorant soul. :)

Gl!
 

J_dazzle23

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He specifically states that OC is negligent! The fact that it is his opinion does not change how offensive it is. He obviously believes it, except for outright facts, almost everything is an opinion.
C'mon ww. I'll re-quote what you already quoted.

OC'ing into some situations is negligence, IMHO.

He specifically says IN SOME SITUATIONS. you conveniently left that out of your paraphrase. That little bit changes context quite A BIT.

So you are taking offense to someone's opinion on the Internet that does not affect you, nor is he trying to ENFORCE that opinion on others, outside of offering his personal advice on a question openly posed on a forum?

Dude.....
 
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