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Thread: Center for American Progress Report calls for elimination of ATF

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    Center for American Progress Report calls for elimination of ATF

    "[ ... ]
    The report, by the left-leaning Center for American Progress, comes in the wake of a bill by U.S. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) that seeks to dissolve the agency and move its law enforcement and gun industry regulatory functions into the FBI and other agencies.

    The bill and the report are the latest in a series of efforts, from both sides of the political spectrum and even by veterans of the ATF, to reform or eliminate the agency. In July, a Government Accountability Office report on the ATF described an agency trying to redefine itself while struggling with high personnel turnover and internal problems.

    [ ... ]

    http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/wat...304195381.html
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The ATF should be nothing more than a NTSB of the LE industrial complex.

    BATF&E FY 2015 budget request: 1.2 billion dollars.
    NTSB FY 2016 budget request: 105 million dollars.

    http://www.justice.gov/sites/default...tification.pdf
    http://www.ntsb.gov/about/Documents/...getRequest.pdf
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    There was an effort to do this in the early 80s. I was working with the FBI to put a former employer who screwed me over in federal prison at the time; and yes I did it. Anyway, NONE of the FBI agents I had contact with wanted anything to do with an ATF agent, they hated 'em almost more than I did.

    Besides Alcohol, tobacco and firearms should be the name of a store not a government agency.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Well, the left and right finally agree on something - get rid of the BATFEBBQ. That should be easy since everyone stems to hate the agency equally.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Well, the left and right finally agree on something - get rid of the BATFEBBQ. That should be easy since everyone stems to hate the agency equally.
    Disband them and disbar from government employment for life any current employees. Then let a half way credible federal agency investigate their files for any evidence of criminal conduct. Prosecute any (then former) BATFE employees/agents who were involved in anything criminal.

    Let the FBI pick up expertise in explosives. Leave the States to deal with Alcohol, Tobacco, and other recreational drugs as they see fit.

    And repeal the vast majority of gun laws the BATFE presumes to enforce, including limits on importing useful and interesting firearms.

    Charles
    Last edited by utbagpiper; 05-20-2015 at 12:13 AM.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Disband them and disbar from government employment for life any current employees. Then let a half way credible federal agency investigate their files for any evidence of criminal conduct. Prosecute any (then former) BATFE employees/agents who were involved in anything criminal.

    Let the FBI pick up expertise in explosives. Leave the States to deal with Alcohol, Tobacco, and other recreational drugs as they see fit.

    And repeal the vast majority of gun laws the BATFE presumes to enforce, including limits on importing useful and interesting firearms.

    Charles
    If something that wonderful happened I'd be so excited I'd have sex with my own wife!
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    If something that wonderful happened I'd be so excited I'd have sex with my own wife!
    So would I...
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    so piper, et al., you are advocating further gun control?
    quote: The report also argues the agency has not done enough to investigate online firearms sales and gun shows for illegal activity. Previous operations came under fire by Congress, prompting the agency to stop such enforcement operations, it said. unquote

    by this statement this article is advocating the FBI subjectively investigate online and gun show sales '...for illegal activity'? now that's a subjective couple of word isn't it: for illegal activity? in whose perspective? nawlll the FBI doesn't have a history to do witch hunts or illegal surveillance activities against this country's citizens does it? no, not under Hoover and other directors....nawlllll not in the least.

    American's citizens already tolerate enough abuses from governmental agencies such as HLS ~ now the largest governmental agency, and you now believe the elimination or merge to the FBI to make yet another mega-agency to hunt for illegal activity is ok... eh, don't complain when the firearm control(s) become unbearable.

    ineffective, perhaps...but the alternative might not tolerable.

    ipse
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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so piper, et al., you are advocating further gun control?
    quote: The report also argues the agency has not done enough to investigate online firearms sales and gun shows for illegal activity. Previous operations came under fire by Congress, prompting the agency to stop such enforcement operations, it said. unquote

    by this statement this article is advocating the FBI subjectively investigate online and gun show sales '...for illegal activity'? now that's a subjective couple of word isn't it: for illegal activity? in whose perspective? nawlll the FBI doesn't have a history to do witch hunts or illegal surveillance activities against this country's citizens does it? no, not under Hoover and other directors....nawlllll not in the least.

    American's citizens already tolerate enough abuses from governmental agencies such as HLS ~ now the largest governmental agency, and you now believe the elimination or merge to the FBI to make yet another mega-agency to hunt for illegal activity is ok... eh, don't complain when the firearm control(s) become unbearable.

    ineffective, perhaps...but the alternative might not tolerable.

    ipse
    Nah, nobody supports all that carp, just the part about eliminating the BAtfEBBQ, although I do like Piper's clean-up concept after the disbanding.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Nah, nobody supports all that carp, just the part about eliminating the BAtfEBBQ, although I do like Piper's clean-up concept after the disbanding.
    +1
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    There was an effort to do this in the early 80s. I was working with the FBI to put a former employer who screwed me over in federal prison at the time; and yes I did it. Anyway, NONE of the FBI agents I had contact with wanted anything to do with an ATF agent, they hated 'em almost more than I did.

    Besides Alcohol, tobacco and firearms should be the name of a store not a government agency.
    Yet, the FBI is not investigate alleged, and documented. transgressions perpetrated by the ATF. The LE industrial complex is very much like a cop union.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    That's good news. Let's hope it continues.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Its for the children!
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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