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Thread: No gun signs in Lebanon Ky parks

  1. #1
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    No gun signs in Lebanon Ky parks

    I have been told that there are no gun signs at the city park in Lebanon, Ky. I ask someone to get pictures and he sent them to me. I will be emailing and writing the mayor and the city attorney and find out why. I have been told that people have been removed from the park by police for open carry. As soon as I receive a reply, I will let all know what up. If anyone lives in Marion County and have any further information, please post and let us know your encounters
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    any news so far?, here in monroe county there used to be signs in the tompkinsville park, but they came down about 2-3 years ago and new signs went up with everything from before except the no firearms posting, plus they now have a campground in the tompkinsville one. carried there last week with my wife and son, police came through on patrol a few times. never stopped and checked me just waved and went on. my 3 year old caught his first fish that day too.

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    I live 15 miles from Lebanon and I know a couple members of the fair board. Im not familiar with the parks in Lebanon but I may swing through and see what I can find.

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Anyone that has a way to help fix problems is appreciated. I'll be on it Tuesday.
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    Drove through the park today and they don't mind spending money on signs.
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    There were a few more signs, but I was too lazy to get out of the truck to get a decent picture.

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Here is the email I sent the mayor:


    Dear Sir,


    This email is in reference to the no gun signs placed all around the city park. I am writing because the signs are in violation of KRS 65.870. If you have never read this statute, it says that no city or county may take part in denying people the right to carry guns and parks are included. I have also reviewed the online ordinances, for Lebanon, Kentucky, and found none to bar concealed carry in city owned buildings. This is the only action the Commonwealth of Kentucky allows a city to undertake. A complaint was lodged by a citizen of Lebanon, Kentucky.


    As a board member of the Kentucky Coalition for Concealed Carry (KC3), I am requesting the removal of these signs immediately. If these are not removed, as required by KRS 65.870, there will be a request made to the board for a vote to take additional measures to secure the right of the people to carry guns in the parks of Lebanon, Kentucky. This could mean a vote to sue the city. We have sued 13 cities in the commonwealth and have secured a win in court or a settlement by all the cities. This cost these cities a great deal and we do not want to spend our time or resources on making a city do what the law requires.


    I hope that this email will be taken as it is presented, as a request to remove the illegal signs. If you have any questions, or wish to contact me for additional information, please feel free to. Thank you for your assistance and I look forward to the signs removal.


    Best Regards,


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    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    Drove through the park today and they don't mind spending money on signs.
    Thanks a lot, flb_87. This helps a lot. I only had one picture and it wasn't very helpful. These are just what we need.
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    Looks like a great little park for a couple hundred OC'ers to have a picnic doesn't it? Right after a walk through City Hall. Wow that appears to be an obstinate town doesn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Looks like a great little park for a couple hundred OC'ers to have a picnic doesn't it? Right after a walk through City Hall. Wow that appears to be an obstinate town doesn't it?

    It might be a little premature to call them "obstinate". No one has contacted them yet. Often these things are just a matter of educating them on what the law is. These small towns aren't up to speed on state laws and don't have the services of full time legal council in many cases. They may become "obstinate" when confronted, but that remains to be seen.
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

    William Pitt



    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

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    Gutshot I always find it nigh onto impossible to believe that a law director doesn't yet know about statewide preemption of local gun laws after so many years have passed. Working in municipal government myself I'd be the first to admit law directors aren't always the brightest bulbs lawyer-wise, but this stuff is their JOB. If they don't know something themselves it's not rocket science to call someone else in the shyster biz that does know.

    We haven't had preemption in Ohio as long as Kentucky but two cases concerning the law have made it to the Ohio Supreme Court (where preemption was upheld). So after that I'd certainly expect legal eagles for other cities to have read something about the topic.

    I think the towns put those signs up knowing full well about your state's law, it's a feeble attempt to keep "troublesome elements" from doing "bad things" on park property. Lame, lame, lame, but the sheeple often like it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Gutshot I always find it nigh onto impossible to believe that a law director doesn't yet know about statewide preemption of local gun laws after so many years have passed. Working in municipal government myself I'd be the first to admit law directors aren't always the brightest bulbs lawyer-wise, but this stuff is their JOB. If they don't know something themselves it's not rocket science to call someone else in the shyster biz that does know.

    We haven't had preemption in Ohio as long as Kentucky but two cases concerning the law have made it to the Ohio Supreme Court (where preemption was upheld). So after that I'd certainly expect legal eagles for other cities to have read something about the topic.

    I think the towns put those signs up knowing full well about your state's law, it's a feeble attempt to keep "troublesome elements" from doing "bad things" on park property. Lame, lame, lame, but the sheeple often like it.
    You may find it "nigh onto impossible to believe", but that has been my experience from doing literally dozens of these things. It is also very common for them to know about the law and not know what is in their own ordinances. I once found a town with an obvious violation and the mayor had been working as an assistant to a state representative that had been a cosponsor of the bill when it was passed. He could recite the wording of the bill, but didn't know that his city had an ordinance that was in violation of it. When I pointed it out to him he was very embarrassed. These things seem highly unlikely, but I have seen it so many times that it can not be untrue.

    City officials don't sit around all day thinking about gun issues. We do, but it is the last thing that they are concerned about. Most of their time is used on budget issues. Sure, there used to be those that said, 'I don't care what the state law says. There is nothing they can do about it" and they were right, but now the law and their attitude has changed. There are only a few that want to fight on gun issues, now. The smaller towns do not have full time city attorneys and they are charged by the hour for legal advice and representation. They don't just call up and ask questions on every little thing that crosses their mind, because the attorney is then on the clock. Some of these people that get elected know nothing about the law or how it works. They have a lot of friends and are "good ole boys" and can get a lot of people to vote for them, but are unprepared for the responsibility of public office. They are unwilling to spend the time to educate themselves. We are only interested in a few laws, they have to be concerned with hundreds. Gun law is way down the list for them and they have never heard of "preemption".

    I live in a town where one man sits on several boards and commissions. Recently, it came out that one of those commissions was not not complying with the "open meetings act". After a little investigation, it was found that some of his commissions were keeping no records, he didn't even know what a quorum was. He had never heard of "minutes" of a meeting. Naturally, this bozo was forced to resign, but I'd bet his replacement will be little better. The level of incompetence is astonishing. When I talk or write to these people, I try to keep things to the level of a 5th grader.
    Last edited by gutshot; 05-26-2015 at 01:52 PM.
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    City officials don't sit around all day thinking about gun issues.
    Well, not entirely true.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

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    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    Here is the email I sent the mayor:


    Dear Sir,


    This email is in reference to the no gun signs placed all around the city park. I am writing because the signs are in violation of KRS 65.870. If you have never read this statute, it says that no city or county may take part in denying people the right to carry guns and parks are included. I have also reviewed the online ordinances, for Lebanon, Kentucky, and found none to bar concealed carry in city owned buildings. This is the only action the Commonwealth of Kentucky allows a city to undertake. A complaint was lodged by a citizen of Lebanon, Kentucky.


    As a board member of the Kentucky Coalition for Concealed Carry (KC3), I am requesting the removal of these signs immediately. If these are not removed, as required by KRS 65.870, there will be a request made to the board for a vote to take additional measures to secure the right of the people to carry guns in the parks of Lebanon, Kentucky. This could mean a vote to sue the city. We have sued 13 cities in the commonwealth and have secured a win in court or a settlement by all the cities. This cost these cities a great deal and we do not want to spend our time or resources on making a city do what the law requires.


    I hope that this email will be taken as it is presented, as a request to remove the illegal signs. If you have any questions, or wish to contact me for additional information, please feel free to. Thank you for your assistance and I look forward to the signs removal.


    Best Regards,


    Very well written. I look forward to a response.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  15. #15
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Signs are down at Lebanon city park

    I was told that the signs in the park in Lebanon are gone. Thanks for all the help and everything that was done to achieve this. Remember, KC3 is there to help. Please join so that we can help you. Let us know if you see a sign you think shouldn't be there.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    I was told that the signs in the park in Lebanon are gone. Thanks for all the help and everything that was done to achieve this. Remember, KC3 is there to help. Please join so that we can help you. Let us know if you see a sign you think shouldn't be there.
    Great job, Hotrod. Thanks.
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

    William Pitt



    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

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    Did the city tell you this or did your contact tell you this? I went through Lebanon today on the way home and didn't even think to run through the park.

  18. #18
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    This was told to me by 2 different sources, one who open carried there today
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    Still up at the soccer complex and still up at the rear enhance, but most are down. These were probably either forgotten or missed.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    Still up at the soccer complex and still up at the rear enhance, but most are down. These were probably either forgotten or missed.

    Can you check again, to see if they went back and completed the removal? I agree that these sign were probably missed, but if this goes on longer, somebody needs to contact them and find out what they intend to do.
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

    William Pitt



    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

    Samuel Adams









  21. #21
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    I was told by the mayor they all would be removed
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    Still up at the soccer complex and still up at the rear enhance, but most are down. These were probably either forgotten or missed.
    Still up as of this afternoon.

  23. #23
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    I called. Had to leave a message. Maybe someone could point them out to the mayor or the department to remove
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