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Thread: In re Jury Nullification, Prof. Renee Lettow Lerner blogging at Volokh Conspiracy

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    In re Jury Nullification, Prof. Renee Lettow Lerner blogging at Volokh Conspiracy

    The uncivil jury, part 3: The perils of jury trial, efforts to control juries, and the deceptive allure of nullification

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...nullification/
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    I have my doubts about the author of the article, a Prof Renee Lerner.

    One of the earliest alarm bells for me is in the title: "...the deceptive allure of nullification."

    The next occurred in the fourth paragraph with her statement that the Bubonic Plague of 1348-49 upset the feudal system such that people were no longer tied to the land. The information I have from a British documentary is that the feudal system was still in place during the large Peasants Revolt of 1381. One of the peasants' demands was abolition of the feudal system which tied them to the lords who owned the land. Initially, King Richard II (14 years old), agreed to some or all of the peasant's demands, but then quashed an extremist wing of the revolt. And, then, having gained some advantage, hunted down the leaders of the wider revolt. The documentary didn't particularly say whether Richard II honored his initial concessions. So, I'm not even sure the feudal system ended in 1381, much less when Prof. Lerner says it did some thirty years earlier.

    Also, I do not understand why she talks about civil juries, unless she is laying the ground-work to tar criminal jury nullification by asserting excesses of civil juries. At the end of the article she says prominent Americans came to regret civil juries and nullification. So what? Who were these prominent Americans? Were they Federalists trying to seize control of Congress for financial advantage? Were any of these regret-ers among those who perpetrated the lobbying scam and tax increases that led to Shea's Rebellion? Why would problems with civil juries--if there were injustices--make "the deceptive allure of nullification."

    I think I shall have to go back and read the previous installaments (the OP article is third in a series). And, keep an eye out for each of the new ones as they come along.

    In the meantime, there is a fast, easy way to learn about the importance of nullification: An Essay on the Trial by Jury by Lysander Spooner. If you read just the first section, you will know more about how trial by jury fits into the constitutional system than probably 99% of Americans. Definitely a must read for anybody interested in liberty.

    I'll post a link and some excerpts in another post.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-28-2015 at 12:40 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    An Essay on the Trial by Jury

    Below are some excerpts from Lysander Spooner's essay on trial by jury. Link at the end.

    For more than six hundred years --- that is, since Magna Carta, in 1215 --- there has been no clearer principle of English or American constitutional law, than that, in criminal cases, it is not only the right and duty of juries to judge what are the facts, what is the law...but that it is also their right, and their primary and paramount duty, to judge of the justice of the law, and to hold all laws invalid, that are, in their opinion, unjust or oppressive, and all persons guiltless in violating, or resisting the execution of, such laws.

    Unless such be the right and duty of jurors, it is plain that, instead of juries being a “palladium of liberty” --- a barrier against the tyranny and oppression of the government --- they are really mere tools in its hands, for carrying into execution any injustice and oppression it may desire to have executed.

    But for their right to judge of the law, and the justice of the law, juries would be no protection to an accused person, even as to matters of fact; for, if the government can dictate to a jury any law whatever, in a criminal case, it can certainly dictate to them the laws of evidence. That is, it can dictate what evidence is admissible, and what inadmissible, and also what force or weight is to be given to the evidence admitted. And if the government can thus dictate to a jury the laws of evidence, it can not only make it necessary for them to convict on a partial exhibition of the evidence rightfully pertaining to the case, but it can even require them to convict on any evidence whatever that it pleases to offer them...

    http://lysanderspooner.org/node/35
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-28-2015 at 02:37 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I had some doubts too. And much of the statements didn't fit into a great book The Grand Jury, an extensive well documented read along with The Origins of the Fifth Amendment, which shows how hard the people kept wrestling court power away from the monarchs.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I had some doubts too. And much of the statements didn't fit into a great book The Grand Jury, an extensive well documented read along with The Origins of the Fifth Amendment, which shows how hard the people kept wrestling court power away from the monarchs.
    Alright, alright. Give. C'mon, cough it up. What is the full title and author so the rest of us can read it, too.

    Dang it. Sometimes you're as bad as Marshaul, leave me hanging like that. Now I'm all interested, but I gotta go google it myself.

    Last edited by Citizen; 05-28-2015 at 10:35 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    The Grand Jury by George J. Edwards, Jr. (Cosimo Classics, 2009, 978-1605207308)

    This classic of jurisprudence, first published in 1906 and difficult to find outside law libraries, remains the authoritative volume on the grand jury system in the United States to this day. Here, GEORGE JOHN EDWARDS (b. 1875) comprehensively examines the concept and practice of the grand jury: its origin in the institutions of Norman law early historical cases of interest the beginnings of secrecy of grand juries the selection of grand jurors and the composition of a grand jury the rights and obligations of attorneys facing grand juries the oaths, powers, and duties of grand juries how the grand jury transacts business the relationship of the grand jury to the court and more.
    http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Jury-Geo.../dp/1605207306
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Alright, alright. Give. C'mon, cough it up. What is the full title and author so the rest of us can read it, too.

    Dang it. Sometimes you're as bad as Marshaul, leave me hanging like that. Now I'm all interested, but I gotta go google it myself.

    Nightmare beat me too it.

    It deals mostly with the grand jury but also touches on the petite jury.

    What is a great is learning the info on how prosecutors are not supposed to have much to do with either jury and what a travesty the gliechshaltung'ing of the modern jury is to justice.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Gleichschaltung, idiomatically, synchronizing with the needs of the state. That is an idiom very remote from normal language, very obscure.

    ETA It gets a Wikipedia entry! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleichschaltung#Etymology that includes,

    Etymology

    Gleichschaltung, as a compound word, is better comprehended by those who speak other languages by listing its predecessory uses in German. The word gleich in German means alike, equal, or the same; schaltung means something like switching. The word Gleichschaltung had two uses in German for physical, rather than political, meanings:

    A locking clutch, as used in some machines for connecting two shafts that would otherwise rotate freely such that they rotate at the same speed when in the locked condition.
    A certain means of wiring an alternating current electrical generator, and AC electric motors, so that when the generator is made to turn at a given speed, or even turned to a certain angle, each motor connected to it will also turn at that speed, or at the same angle.

    However, the use of the term for these physical meanings has largely been abandoned since the war, because of its Nazi associations.
    Modern submarines have a Gleichschaltung clutch, a hydraulically operated multi-plate wet locking clutch, that when the speed between driver and driven is synchronized nearly zero, detents lock the parts together.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 05-29-2015 at 09:04 AM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Gleichschaltung, idiomatically, synchronizing with the needs of the state. That is an idiom very remote from normal language, very obscure.
    Nazi term, copied by jealous US leaders.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    No. A not particularly common engineering word/concept.

    Years ago I was involved with a particularly difficult overhaul of USS Batfish SSN-681, now stricken. During post-overhaul sea trials a ship's officer defeated the Gleichschaltung lock-outs causing the 20,000 hp clutch to try to lock at high differential speed and destroy itself. I used to know how much the repair cost, but the idiot didn't even get a slap on the hand. Neither did he advance.

    I am reminded of the 2007 teergruben kerfuffle right here on OCDO. A favorite asked for an explanation and the explainer was banned for giving it in unfavorable terms.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The Grand Jury by George J. Edwards, Jr. (Cosimo Classics, 2009, 978-1605207308)



    http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Jury-Geo.../dp/1605207306
    Thanks!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    No. A not particularly common engineering word/concept.

    Years ago I was involved with a particularly difficult overhaul of USS Batfish SSN-681, now stricken. During post-overhaul sea trials a ship's officer defeated the Gleichschaltung lock-outs causing the 20,000 hp clutch to try to lock at high differential speed and destroy itself. I used to know how much the repair cost, but the idiot didn't even get a slap on the hand. Neither did he advance.

    I am reminded of the 2007 teergruben kerfuffle right here on OCDO. A favorite asked for an explanation and the explainer was banned for giving it in unfavorable terms.
    It makes sense the German Nazi's using an engineering term to streamline the court system.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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