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Thread: NRA vs. VCDL

  1. #1
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    NRA vs. VCDL

    "Janis for Senate" ad I just heard on WRVA radio touts an "A rating from the NRA." HOW LONG will it take for politicians to realize that doesn't impress the 2A crowd in Virginia? I want to know if he was endorsed by VCDL Pac or not! Are we fooling ourselves? Are we just a paper tiger still? Seems like we are NOT making progress in this arena. They look at us and say "pffffft!"
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    "Janis for Senate" ad I just heard on WRVA radio touts an "A rating from the NRA." HOW LONG will it take for politicians to realize that doesn't impress the 2A crowd in Virginia? I want to know if he was endorsed by VCDL Pac or not! Are we fooling ourselves? Are we just a paper tiger still? Seems like we are NOT making progress in this arena. They look at us and say "pffffft!"
    To hell with the PACs endorsment. Janis is strong 2A and while we're at it the hell with the NRA endorsment. Arizona had to run them out on a rail to get Constutional carry.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    My impression has been that both rate politicians based on their response to lobbying against the further imposition of restrictions/control rather than activities related to the restoration of rights/reduction of illogical restrictions/control. Of course that has a great deal to do with what each organization is lobbying for/against.

    stay safe.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    My impression has been that both rate politicians based on their response to lobbying against the further imposition of restrictions/control rather than activities related to the restoration of rights/reduction of illogical restrictions/control. Of course that has a great deal to do with what each organization is lobbying for/against.

    stay safe.
    Exactly. I won't go into my opinion of either rating criteria other than I pay no attention to it. Janis has always been a friend to gun owners. Not that he gave everything asked for because some so called pro gun bills are the anti s best friend. Garrett's long gun bill is the classic example and to consider him or ware pro gun just because they filled out a survey is idiotic.

    There's also a balance point where a legislator is anti on one thing and pro in another. Saslaw and Mcheachin were both instrumental in Sunday Hunting along with the NRA and all 3 earned brownie points in the eyes of many gun owning hunters.
    You consider the whole picture before you endorse.

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    in my opinion it holds more weight if a candidate can declare themselves "endorsed by peter nap" than by any PAC
    JFT 96

    I'm sorry, did I offend you with my opinion?
    You should hear the ones I keep to myself.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Politicians. Surely you aren't expecting to get "information" from an ad. You're going to get what they want to give, and that's whatever makes them look good to the people they want to impress.

    And to say the NRA is not something Virginians pay attention to is, I believe, wishful thinking. I talk to enough people at gun shows who spout NRA propaganda word for word and don't think anything else is needed to know that there are plenty of those types in the Commonwealth.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    in my opinion it holds more weight if a candidate can declare themselves "endorsed by peter nap" than by any PAC
    I'll buy that!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    While I strongly support VCDL, I do not support their current method for endorsing candidates. One of the strongest pro-gun Delegates in the state never returns the survey, and that makes absolutely no difference to me whatsoever. In some cases, returning a strong survey can put the candidate at risk, so you could then have a great candidate that DOESN'T get elected. Hardly the way to move forward. This is politics, you have to do what it takes to get elected, not what makes you feel good.

    VCDL needs a better way to evaluate candidates than a survey.

    TFred

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    the unsaid caveat

    If a candidate fails to return the VCDL survey, they brand themselves as either Anti or slimy. I am not certain there is a practical difference. I have less problem with a candidate who disagrees on an item or two than one who does not want to be on record for their views (slimy). The perception seems to be: "if I do not agree100%, they will not vote for me, therefor it is better to have no statements at all and leave it open to interpretation". A candidate unwilling to answer is little better than one opposed to freedom. They are unwilling to be counted on.

    With the NRA, if I remember correctly, they cannot have a rating until they have voted on issues. Someone could be 100% pro-gun/pro-liberty and have no voting record and miss an endorsement. I am not sure that VCDL is the lesser system.
    Last edited by The Wolfhound; 05-29-2015 at 11:31 AM.
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    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    While I strongly support VCDL, I do not support their current method for endorsing candidates. One of the strongest pro-gun Delegates in the state never returns the survey, and that makes absolutely no difference to me whatsoever. In some cases, returning a strong survey can put the candidate at risk, so you could then have a great candidate that DOESN'T get elected. Hardly the way to move forward. This is politics, you have to do what it takes to get elected, not what makes you feel good.

    VCDL needs a better way to evaluate candidates than a survey.

    TFred
    OK, OK. So, what is your better process idea?
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

  11. #11
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    Politicians. Surely you aren't expecting to get "information" from an ad. You're going to get what they want to give, and that's whatever makes them look good to the people they want to impress.

    And to say the NRA is not something Virginians pay attention to is, I believe, wishful thinking. I talk to enough people at gun shows who spout NRA propaganda word for word and don't think anything else is needed to know that there are plenty of those types in the Commonwealth.
    How many of them ever take the time to DO anything for the cause, besides pay dues to nra? what good are they to the cause, really? I see vcdl doing all the heavy lifting in this state, year after year after decade!
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

  12. #12
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    If a candidate fails to return the VCDL survey, they brand themselves as either Anti or slimy. I am not certain there is a practical difference. I have less problem with a candidate who disagrees on an item or two than one who does not want to be on record for their views (slimy). The perception seems to be: "if I do not agree100%, they will not vote for me, therefor it is better to have no statements at all and leave it open to interpretation". A candidate unwilling to answer is little better than one opposed to freedom. They are unwilling to be counted on.

    With the NRA, if I remember correctly, they cannot have a rating until they have voted on issues. Someone could be 100% pro-gun/pro-liberty and have no voting record and miss an endorsement. I am not sure that VCDL is the lesser system.
    With all due respect, I could not possibly disagree more with your position.

    I personally know one of the most pro-gun Delegates in the state, and he does not return the survey, because in the big picture, keeping him in office, it does not help him. That's all that counts. Making VCDL members feel all warm and fuzzy because a politician filled out a form does very little toward accomplishing our goals.

    It seems that many of us forget that we do not live in a one-issue world. The politicians have to run a campaign that will get them elected, not make one small constituency feel good. The simple fact is that some politicians have the support of the pro-gun crowd, whether or not they fill out a survey. But some of the fence-sitting voters are vulnerable to the anti-gun mind tricks that could be used against them if they publish a strongly pro-gun survey. This is not rocket science, it's politics.

    The answer is to know the candidates inside and out. Be involved with their campaigns. Go to their meetings. Ask them questions face-to-face. Any candidate can fill out any form in the way that the sponsor wants to hear. There is no guarantee that their votes will match their survey form.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    With all due respect, I could not possibly disagree more with your position.

    I personally know one of the most pro-gun Delegates in the state, and he does not return the survey, because in the big picture, keeping him in office, it does not help him. That's all that counts. Making VCDL members feel all warm and fuzzy because a politician filled out a form does very little toward accomplishing our goals.

    It seems that many of us forget that we do not live in a one-issue world. The politicians have to run a campaign that will get them elected, not make one small constituency feel good. The simple fact is that some politicians have the support of the pro-gun crowd, whether or not they fill out a survey. But some of the fence-sitting voters are vulnerable to the anti-gun mind tricks that could be used against them if they publish a strongly pro-gun survey. This is not rocket science, it's politics.

    The answer is to know the candidates inside and out. Be involved with their campaigns. Go to their meetings. Ask them questions face-to-face. Any candidate can fill out any form in the way that the sponsor wants to hear. There is no guarantee that their votes will match their survey form.

    TFred
    To add to that, VCDL has almost become rabid in attacking some legislators that are pro gun. I say that loosely because there aren't many if any that are completely pro.
    Attacking them and they're Reelected is suicidal.
    That would be like me asking Kirby Burch to support reasonable dog hunting laws.

  14. #14
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    With all due respect, I could not possibly disagree more with your position.

    I personally know one of the most pro-gun Delegates in the state, and he does not return the survey, because in the big picture, keeping him in office, it does not help him. That's all that counts. Making VCDL members feel all warm and fuzzy because a politician filled out a form does very little toward accomplishing our goals.

    It seems that many of us forget that we do not live in a one-issue world. The politicians have to run a campaign that will get them elected, not make one small constituency feel good. The simple fact is that some politicians have the support of the pro-gun crowd, whether or not they fill out a survey. But some of the fence-sitting voters are vulnerable to the anti-gun mind tricks that could be used against them if they publish a strongly pro-gun survey. This is not rocket science, it's politics.

    The answer is to know the candidates inside and out. Be involved with their campaigns. Go to their meetings. Ask them questions face-to-face. Any candidate can fill out any form in the way that the sponsor wants to hear. There is no guarantee that their votes will match their survey form.

    TFred
    That's why I said I'd listen to peter nap's endorsements, he knows a lot of the candidates
    JFT 96

    I'm sorry, did I offend you with my opinion?
    You should hear the ones I keep to myself.

    Porthos, Athos, and Aramis = peter nap, skidmark and Grapeshot, d'Artagnan = ?

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    If a candidate fails to return the VCDL survey, they brand themselves as either Anti or slimy. I am not certain there is a practical difference. I have less problem with a candidate who disagrees on an item or two than one who does not want to be on record for their views (slimy). The perception seems to be: "if I do not agree100%, they will not vote for me, therefor it is better to have no statements at all and leave it open to interpretation". A candidate unwilling to answer is little better than one opposed to freedom. They are unwilling to be counted on.

    With the NRA, if I remember correctly, they cannot have a rating until they have voted on issues. Someone could be 100% pro-gun/pro-liberty and have no voting record and miss an endorsement. I am not sure that VCDL is the lesser system.

    I strongly support VCDL, but the survey is one of those things where we are amateurish. The survey uses one or more sentences that assert our viewpoint, then ask the question "Will you .....?" A candidate who answers in a nuanced manner is scored "down" moreso than one who simply agrees wholeheartedly.

    This survey could seriously benefit from some professional wordsmithing and evaluation, and from recognizing that not everyone approaches a problem or issue in the same way.

    In the past, there have been questions that I would not have answered "yes" to, when that was clearly what the survey wanted. While I commend the effort that goes in to the survey, I believe it is limiting when used as a "go/no-go".
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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