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NRA vs. VCDL

Old Virginia Joe

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
365
Location
SE Va., , Occupied CSA
"Janis for Senate" ad I just heard on WRVA radio touts an "A rating from the NRA." HOW LONG will it take for politicians to realize that doesn't impress the 2A crowd in Virginia? I want to know if he was endorsed by VCDL Pac or not! Are we fooling ourselves? Are we just a paper tiger still? Seems like we are NOT making progress in this arena. They look at us and say "pffffft!"
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
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Oct 16, 2007
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13,551
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Valhalla
"Janis for Senate" ad I just heard on WRVA radio touts an "A rating from the NRA." HOW LONG will it take for politicians to realize that doesn't impress the 2A crowd in Virginia? I want to know if he was endorsed by VCDL Pac or not! Are we fooling ourselves? Are we just a paper tiger still? Seems like we are NOT making progress in this arena. They look at us and say "pffffft!"

To hell with the PACs endorsment. Janis is strong 2A and while we're at it the hell with the NRA endorsment. Arizona had to run them out on a rail to get Constutional carry.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
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Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
My impression has been that both rate politicians based on their response to lobbying against the further imposition of restrictions/control rather than activities related to the restoration of rights/reduction of illogical restrictions/control. Of course that has a great deal to do with what each organization is lobbying for/against.

stay safe.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
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Valhalla
My impression has been that both rate politicians based on their response to lobbying against the further imposition of restrictions/control rather than activities related to the restoration of rights/reduction of illogical restrictions/control. Of course that has a great deal to do with what each organization is lobbying for/against.

stay safe.
Exactly. I won't go into my opinion of either rating criteria other than I pay no attention to it. Janis has always been a friend to gun owners. Not that he gave everything asked for because some so called pro gun bills are the anti s best friend. Garrett's long gun bill is the classic example and to consider him or ware pro gun just because they filled out a survey is idiotic.

There's also a balance point where a legislator is anti on one thing and pro in another. Saslaw and Mcheachin were both instrumental in Sunday Hunting along with the NRA and all 3 earned brownie points in the eyes of many gun owning hunters.
You consider the whole picture before you endorse.
 

scouser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
1,341
Location
804, VA
in my opinion it holds more weight if a candidate can declare themselves "endorsed by peter nap" than by any PAC
 

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
Politicians. Surely you aren't expecting to get "information" from an ad. You're going to get what they want to give, and that's whatever makes them look good to the people they want to impress.

And to say the NRA is not something Virginians pay attention to is, I believe, wishful thinking. I talk to enough people at gun shows who spout NRA propaganda word for word and don't think anything else is needed to know that there are plenty of those types in the Commonwealth.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
While I strongly support VCDL, I do not support their current method for endorsing candidates. One of the strongest pro-gun Delegates in the state never returns the survey, and that makes absolutely no difference to me whatsoever. In some cases, returning a strong survey can put the candidate at risk, so you could then have a great candidate that DOESN'T get elected. Hardly the way to move forward. This is politics, you have to do what it takes to get elected, not what makes you feel good.

VCDL needs a better way to evaluate candidates than a survey.

TFred
 

The Wolfhound

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
728
Location
Henrico, Virginia, USA
the unsaid caveat

If a candidate fails to return the VCDL survey, they brand themselves as either Anti or slimy. I am not certain there is a practical difference. I have less problem with a candidate who disagrees on an item or two than one who does not want to be on record for their views (slimy). The perception seems to be: "if I do not agree100%, they will not vote for me, therefor it is better to have no statements at all and leave it open to interpretation". A candidate unwilling to answer is little better than one opposed to freedom. They are unwilling to be counted on.

With the NRA, if I remember correctly, they cannot have a rating until they have voted on issues. Someone could be 100% pro-gun/pro-liberty and have no voting record and miss an endorsement. I am not sure that VCDL is the lesser system.
 
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Old Virginia Joe

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
365
Location
SE Va., , Occupied CSA
While I strongly support VCDL, I do not support their current method for endorsing candidates. One of the strongest pro-gun Delegates in the state never returns the survey, and that makes absolutely no difference to me whatsoever. In some cases, returning a strong survey can put the candidate at risk, so you could then have a great candidate that DOESN'T get elected. Hardly the way to move forward. This is politics, you have to do what it takes to get elected, not what makes you feel good.

VCDL needs a better way to evaluate candidates than a survey.

TFred

OK, OK. So, what is your better process idea?
 

Old Virginia Joe

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
365
Location
SE Va., , Occupied CSA
Politicians. Surely you aren't expecting to get "information" from an ad. You're going to get what they want to give, and that's whatever makes them look good to the people they want to impress.

And to say the NRA is not something Virginians pay attention to is, I believe, wishful thinking. I talk to enough people at gun shows who spout NRA propaganda word for word and don't think anything else is needed to know that there are plenty of those types in the Commonwealth.

How many of them ever take the time to DO anything for the cause, besides pay dues to nra? what good are they to the cause, really? I see vcdl doing all the heavy lifting in this state, year after year after decade!
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
If a candidate fails to return the VCDL survey, they brand themselves as either Anti or slimy. I am not certain there is a practical difference. I have less problem with a candidate who disagrees on an item or two than one who does not want to be on record for their views (slimy). The perception seems to be: "if I do not agree100%, they will not vote for me, therefor it is better to have no statements at all and leave it open to interpretation". A candidate unwilling to answer is little better than one opposed to freedom. They are unwilling to be counted on.

With the NRA, if I remember correctly, they cannot have a rating until they have voted on issues. Someone could be 100% pro-gun/pro-liberty and have no voting record and miss an endorsement. I am not sure that VCDL is the lesser system.
With all due respect, I could not possibly disagree more with your position.

I personally know one of the most pro-gun Delegates in the state, and he does not return the survey, because in the big picture, keeping him in office, it does not help him. That's all that counts. Making VCDL members feel all warm and fuzzy because a politician filled out a form does very little toward accomplishing our goals.

It seems that many of us forget that we do not live in a one-issue world. The politicians have to run a campaign that will get them elected, not make one small constituency feel good. The simple fact is that some politicians have the support of the pro-gun crowd, whether or not they fill out a survey. But some of the fence-sitting voters are vulnerable to the anti-gun mind tricks that could be used against them if they publish a strongly pro-gun survey. This is not rocket science, it's politics.

The answer is to know the candidates inside and out. Be involved with their campaigns. Go to their meetings. Ask them questions face-to-face. Any candidate can fill out any form in the way that the sponsor wants to hear. There is no guarantee that their votes will match their survey form.

TFred
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
With all due respect, I could not possibly disagree more with your position.

I personally know one of the most pro-gun Delegates in the state, and he does not return the survey, because in the big picture, keeping him in office, it does not help him. That's all that counts. Making VCDL members feel all warm and fuzzy because a politician filled out a form does very little toward accomplishing our goals.

It seems that many of us forget that we do not live in a one-issue world. The politicians have to run a campaign that will get them elected, not make one small constituency feel good. The simple fact is that some politicians have the support of the pro-gun crowd, whether or not they fill out a survey. But some of the fence-sitting voters are vulnerable to the anti-gun mind tricks that could be used against them if they publish a strongly pro-gun survey. This is not rocket science, it's politics.

The answer is to know the candidates inside and out. Be involved with their campaigns. Go to their meetings. Ask them questions face-to-face. Any candidate can fill out any form in the way that the sponsor wants to hear. There is no guarantee that their votes will match their survey form.

TFred

To add to that, VCDL has almost become rabid in attacking some legislators that are pro gun. I say that loosely because there aren't many if any that are completely pro.
Attacking them and they're Reelected is suicidal.
That would be like me asking Kirby Burch to support reasonable dog hunting laws.
 

scouser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
1,341
Location
804, VA
With all due respect, I could not possibly disagree more with your position.

I personally know one of the most pro-gun Delegates in the state, and he does not return the survey, because in the big picture, keeping him in office, it does not help him. That's all that counts. Making VCDL members feel all warm and fuzzy because a politician filled out a form does very little toward accomplishing our goals.

It seems that many of us forget that we do not live in a one-issue world. The politicians have to run a campaign that will get them elected, not make one small constituency feel good. The simple fact is that some politicians have the support of the pro-gun crowd, whether or not they fill out a survey. But some of the fence-sitting voters are vulnerable to the anti-gun mind tricks that could be used against them if they publish a strongly pro-gun survey. This is not rocket science, it's politics.

The answer is to know the candidates inside and out. Be involved with their campaigns. Go to their meetings. Ask them questions face-to-face. Any candidate can fill out any form in the way that the sponsor wants to hear. There is no guarantee that their votes will match their survey form.

TFred

That's why I said I'd listen to peter nap's endorsements, he knows a lot of the candidates
 

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
If a candidate fails to return the VCDL survey, they brand themselves as either Anti or slimy. I am not certain there is a practical difference. I have less problem with a candidate who disagrees on an item or two than one who does not want to be on record for their views (slimy). The perception seems to be: "if I do not agree100%, they will not vote for me, therefor it is better to have no statements at all and leave it open to interpretation". A candidate unwilling to answer is little better than one opposed to freedom. They are unwilling to be counted on.

With the NRA, if I remember correctly, they cannot have a rating until they have voted on issues. Someone could be 100% pro-gun/pro-liberty and have no voting record and miss an endorsement. I am not sure that VCDL is the lesser system.


I strongly support VCDL, but the survey is one of those things where we are amateurish. The survey uses one or more sentences that assert our viewpoint, then ask the question "Will you .....?" A candidate who answers in a nuanced manner is scored "down" moreso than one who simply agrees wholeheartedly.

This survey could seriously benefit from some professional wordsmithing and evaluation, and from recognizing that not everyone approaches a problem or issue in the same way.

In the past, there have been questions that I would not have answered "yes" to, when that was clearly what the survey wanted. While I commend the effort that goes in to the survey, I believe it is limiting when used as a "go/no-go".
 
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