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Thread: sb 17 saves the day?

  1. #1
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    sb 17 saves the day?

    what's the chances of sb17 saving the day for non permitted carry?
    Our ancesters, veterens, and people of the service gave and are giving their time and sacrifice to preserve and defend our rights . it''s up to us the people to show appreciation by not sacrificing but investing time to exercise and preserve those rights.......the bushwacker...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushwacker View Post
    what's the chances of sb17 saving the day for non permitted carry?
    0. It would have had to have had its second reading by Tuesday and this by Wednesday (procedural deadlines) and it's still in committee

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    The state may be ripe for constitutional/unlicensed carry in a year and half, if the open carriers in the interim are well behaved and safe. Going straight from licensed concealed only to "everyone carries in the open" is a big jump. Don't underestimate the value of fear of guns and people who like guns among legislators and voters. Let's see how things go. Based on the ability of people to be unreasonable, including some of those who count themselves as open carry advocates, I think I'm OK with starting with this small step.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    The state may be ripe for constitutional/unlicensed carry in a year and half, if the open carriers in the interim are well behaved and safe. Going straight from licensed concealed only to "everyone carries in the open" is a big jump. Don't underestimate the value of fear of guns and people who like guns among legislators and voters. Let's see how things go. Based on the ability of people to be unreasonable, including some of those who count themselves as open carry advocates, I think I'm OK with starting with this small step.
    Im surely ok with the small steps ,I just think that it discriminates against all the other americans that haven't paid rent on their 2nd amendment rights,however it will probably generate money for the stateby others that are interested to also open carry, and we know that those funds could go to a better cause like removing school taxes from our property taxes like the lottery did .....ummm ... I mean was suppose to. but for me it means that I will soon be able to travel from the florida line to the cali line in open carry fashion. ..finally filling that 886 mile gap.
    Our ancesters, veterens, and people of the service gave and are giving their time and sacrifice to preserve and defend our rights . it''s up to us the people to show appreciation by not sacrificing but investing time to exercise and preserve those rights.......the bushwacker...

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    To be clear, the goal of free and open carry is where we need to be headed. But the long absence of handguns in most people's daily experience means we collectively need to relearn the do's and dont's and etiquette. .


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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Incrementalism works. That's how they infringed our rights in the first place.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Incrementalism works. That's how they infringed our rights in the first place.
    yeah I travel for a living and have often said that if you live in an open carry state and don't open carry then you are just helping the anti guns agenda on keeping the people brainwashed in thinking that only the fuzz and security guards are the only ones that's suppose to have guns....why do folks freak at the site of the john Q open carrying ? because they are not use to seeing that. but they will get use to it.
    Our ancesters, veterens, and people of the service gave and are giving their time and sacrifice to preserve and defend our rights . it''s up to us the people to show appreciation by not sacrificing but investing time to exercise and preserve those rights.......the bushwacker...

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    To be clear, the goal of free and open carry is where we need to be headed. But the long absence of handguns in most people's daily experience means we collectively need to relearn the do's and dont's and etiquette. .


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    Personally I do not see much difference. People who pay for something tend to use it, they pay for concealed carry. NC before the OC movement took a big hit with CHP passing in 95, and NC had been a unlicensed OC state for decades. Even today there is not as much OC, as there was pre 95.

    Yes some people will OC, a large segment will either continue to LGOC, antique firearm, or get a permit and conceal carry. I also look for some confusion and arrests while some are still exercising their 2A rights without a permit. IMO it is confusing by the way it was reported, LEO's will now believe all forms of OC must have a permit. IMO SB17 if not passed within the next year or two will die, non permitted OC will die, just like OC died in SC.

    When it comes to government I am a pessimist.
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    LGOC is a non issue. Fringe of the fringe for anything except hunting and sporting activity, as intended.
    LE will know exactly what is required, and they already know this only involves handguns. They can act like they don't but they know. The rule change was a simple one.
    The legislature in Texas meets for half a year every other year, so it will be 18 months before anything new happens (except for the requisite lobbying.)


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    LGOC is a non issue. Fringe of the fringe for anything except hunting and sporting activity, as intended.
    LE will know exactly what is required, and they already know this only involves handguns. They can act like they don't but they know. The rule change was a simple one.
    The legislature in Texas meets for half a year every other year, so it will be 18 months before anything new happens (except for the requisite lobbying.)


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    LGOC is fringe?

    And LE will know exactly what is required?

    Sorry but I had to get up off the floor from laughing.

    Just a simple question, how and why was OCT founded?
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-02-2015 at 09:12 AM.
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    LGOC is fringe around here. I have not once seen anyone who was not involved in a protest, hunting, or headed to the range or field, just walking around doing things like shopping or taking an evening walk in the city (And let's face it, the controversy over OC is entirely a city issue... even during the OC debate here, the democrats would have given in if we had excluded Dallas, Austin, Houston...)


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    LGOC is fringe around here. I have not once seen anyone who was not involved in a protest, hunting, or headed to the range or field, just walking around doing things like shopping or taking an evening walk in the city (And let's face it, the controversy over OC is entirely a city issue... even during the OC debate here, the democrats would have given in if we had excluded Dallas, Austin, Houston...)


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    Seems we have heard that before, and that of course would be from anti gunners.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The difference is that they seek to take away the "unused", and "dangerous" whereas I am simply observing. Progressives are looking for opportunities to take away freedom in the name of safety, urbanism, and equality. The usual mantra is "all equal, but some more equal than others."


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    Quote Originally Posted by bushwacker View Post
    ......... if you live in an open carry state and don't open carry then you are just helping the anti guns agenda................................... they will get use to it.
    WE HAVE A WINNER!! Yes, Yes, “A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost”
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    The difference is that they seek to take away the "unused", and "dangerous" whereas I am simply observing. Progressives are looking for opportunities to take away freedom in the name of safety, urbanism, and equality. The usual mantra is "all equal, but some more equal than others."


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    You can tell yourself that, but when you parrot their fears, you in fact are legitimizing taking away. And that is the very reason Texas got stuck with licensed open carry, and the section to protect OCers from harassment was removed.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    You can tell yourself that, but when you parrot their fears, you in fact are legitimizing taking away. And that is the very reason Texas got stuck with licensed open carry, and the section to protect OCers from harassment was removed.
    OUCH WW, that was like pulling the bandade off covering a boo boo w/o giving warning.

    course WW the sharp pain needs to be done to expose the wound for inspection but if perchance the inspector doesn't heed the infection spreading and take steps to treat it, the exercise and associated pain goes for naught!!

    the presupposition is of course, this action is a start, attached to a privilege card & possible citizen harassment notwithstanding, but we can, of course, change it some time in the future... maybe, perhaps...hope so!!

    (changes to OC statutes haven't been accomplished or successful in NM, CO ~ Denver, other states, but maybe some time in the future!!)

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 06-02-2015 at 12:12 PM.
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    We obviously view things differently. I have many friends and acquaintances who need training before they strap on a hog leg. They have never spent any time around guns except, maybe, one evening on a range. Now that we have OC, and they start gaining interest in the subject and learning things about guns and self defense other than what Hollywood shows, the real education begins. I would venture to say that at least 75% of Texans don't really know much, if anything, about guns or using them, despite probably having "dad's shotgun" in the closet for years. We do not have the gun culture that most people seem to think exists here. Again, this is a city perspective. You don't hand car keys to a 16 year old who has never been in a car.


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Awww now the P4P mandated training song and dance. I know people with permits who are total idiots. In fact there is not a day that I go to town that some moron will stop me to show me his concealed gun, sometimes taking it out of the holster. In NC the safe people are those without mandated training.

    Maybe you would like to explain all those government agents with more mandated training then LAC who shoot themselves?


    Trainig does not make idiots~non idiots~it makes them idiots with training.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-02-2015 at 01:40 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    As I said previously, once people have exposure to these things, their parents talk about it with them, and the culture is such that people honestly talk about guns and self defense, training won't be needed. But as it stands, few people understand the issues around carry and discharge of a weapon. Give it two years. This will let people see how little trouble carriers are and how safe they are.
    As it is, when people learn that I carry, the conversation starts. I always lead with why I carry and the implications of carrying that lead to the "is carrying a gun right for me" assessment. Those opportunities will come much more frequently after Jan 1


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  20. #20
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    As I said previously, once people have exposure to these things, their parents talk about it with them, and the culture is such that people honestly talk about guns and self defense, training won't be needed. But as it stands, few people understand the issues around carry and discharge of a weapon. Give it two years. This will let people see how little trouble carriers are and how safe they are.
    As it is, when people learn that I carry, the conversation starts. I always lead with why I carry and the implications of carrying that lead to the "is carrying a gun right for me" assessment. Those opportunities will come much more frequently after Jan 1


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    IMO you are wrong, anybody with a brain knows guns are deadly, and the ones that don't, training will never change that. Where is the carnage in Arizona? Alaska? Why is there so many stupid gun owners in Florida? A training state, even Texas the incidents that have come to light, are those WITH PERMITS.

    I never justify why I am carrying, and quite frankly it is none of my business why other people carry. The biggest problem with this country is busy body, nosy, intrusive government, followed directly by people of the same nature.

    People who believe that government is responsible for their safety, are usually not responsible, or safe.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-02-2015 at 02:10 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    As I said previously, once people have exposure to these things, their parents talk about it with them, and the culture is such that people honestly talk about guns and self defense, training won't be needed. But as it stands, few people understand the issues around carry and discharge of a weapon. Give it two years. This will let people see how little trouble carriers are and how safe they are.
    As it is, when people learn that I carry, the conversation starts. I always lead with why I carry and the implications of carrying that lead to the "is carrying a gun right for me" assessment. Those opportunities will come much more frequently after Jan 1

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    but noname, the unrealistic rhetoric being bantered about centering on comments: 'oh we will get unfettered OC off the privilege card during the next couple of legislative sessions' and those who pooh paw'g the significant harassment risk those who do OC w/their privilege card face from the nice LEs and politicians who use the lack of an amendment to posture their own agendas...kinda like was done by the political grandstanding over the bill(s) this session.

    i do feel, you personally, have the breath and depth of solid optimism to OC while trying to spread the word...alas this harassment, perceived or real, will keep many, but the most brave at heart from OC'g thus mitigating any type of public edification to the concept.

    please know i bid you and your ilk, nothing but the best in dealing with the challenges ahead. i am sincerely hopefully the follies of the past campaigns won't be repeated in future endeavors to secure your unfettered OC rights.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    sb 17 saves the day?

    I think having the oppty to OC handguns back and forth to ROVA for 3 years while daughter was in college has made me much more comfortable w Concept to OC here in Dallas. Doing it where it is an everyday thing (the rest of non-TX south) is one thing; it will certainly be interesting plowing new ground OC with retail businesses here in urban, democrat-controlled County of Dallas. Can't wait to roll into my local Chase bank branch.


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    Last edited by HPmatt; 06-02-2015 at 02:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    I think having the oppty to OC handguns back and forth to ROVA for 3 years while daughter was in college has made me much more comfortable w Concept to OC here in Dallas. Doing it where it is an everyday thing (the rest of non-TX south) is one thing; it will certainly be interesting plowing new ground OC with retail businesses here in urban, democrat-controlled County of Dallas. Can't wait to roll into my local Chase bank branch.


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    why wait ..when you can do the black powder thing now.
    Our ancesters, veterens, and people of the service gave and are giving their time and sacrifice to preserve and defend our rights . it''s up to us the people to show appreciation by not sacrificing but investing time to exercise and preserve those rights.......the bushwacker...

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    IMO you are wrong, anybody with a brain knows guns are deadly, and the ones that don't, training will never change that. Where is the carnage in Arizona? Alaska? Why is there so many stupid gun owners in Florida? A training state, even Texas the incidents that have come to light, are those WITH PERMITS.
    But we don't want people to respond with the visceral "guns are dangerous", we want them to have the curiosity of a child and actually listen to reasoned answer to questions.
    Arizona has had open carry for a long time. It is in the zeitgeist, unlike in Texas.

    I never justify why I am carrying, and quite frankly it is none of my business why other people carry. The biggest problem with this country is busy body, nosy, intrusive government, followed directly by people of the same nature.

    People who believe that government is responsible for their safety, are usually not responsible, or safe.
    I didn't say I felt a need to justify my actions, only that curious people (and busy bodies) have much to learn from a cordial, honest conversation about guns. A conversation that doesn't start out about fear or danger.


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    Mike of the cop-stop language stripped from open carry bill thread has some very good points to keep in mind and info to tell the officer that stops you. ... may put some doubt in his mind if you was to say this is the reason they didn't need amendment 9 is because stopping just for licensing check is already covered in blah,blah,blah, do you wish to continue with violations in these areas?....but remember it helps to be informative while saying as little as possible.
    Our ancesters, veterens, and people of the service gave and are giving their time and sacrifice to preserve and defend our rights . it''s up to us the people to show appreciation by not sacrificing but investing time to exercise and preserve those rights.......the bushwacker...

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