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Thread: Your opinions: Where is it improper to carry?

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Your opinions: Where is it improper to carry?

    I was reading another thread wherein someone stated there are venues in which it is proper to ban firearms.
    So I was thinking I would like to hear people's opinions on where it is improper to carry. Also please feel free to specify OC or CC if one or the other both not both would be improper.

    I'll go first: physical therapists office. As I had a bit of a mishap several years ago, my gun clattering to the floor during a stretch and leaving my quite red faced.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Improper a weasel word like inappropriate?

    It is wrong to carry on private property of a disapproving host.

    South Carolina requires explicit approval of a host. "Good morning, Mr. Smith, may I come in, I am armed?"
    SECTION 23-31-225. Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings.

    No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate. A person who violates this provision is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.

    HISTORY: 1996 Act No. 464, Section 12.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    .

    I'll go first: physical therapists office. As I had a bit of a mishap several years ago, my gun clattering to the floor during a stretch and leaving my quite red faced.

    What holster were you using.
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    HIJACK! The topic is "Where is it wrong to carry?"
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Where is it improper to carry?

    While surfing, diving, or snorkeling? The whole saltwater vs steel thing.

    Although I suppose I would make an exception for a surfer whose gun matched his board.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    While surfing, diving, or snorkeling? The whole saltwater vs steel thing.

    Although I suppose I would make an exception for a surfer whose gun matched his board.

    Don't they make "guns" specifically for underwater use, though?
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    What holster were you using.
    I don't want this thread to derail. I use leather holsters with no reasonable retention.
    I will concede you are right in any scorn you would direct my way for my choice.

    Back on topic:

    Nude beaches! Seems like an improper place to carry. ESPECIALLY CC!
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I don't want this thread to derail. I use leather holsters with no reasonable retention.
    I will concede you are right in any scorn you would direct my way for my choice.

    Back on topic:

    Nude beaches! Seems like an improper place to carry. ESPECIALLY CC!
    I would argue that its not improper, just difficult and/or painful.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    So far none of the mentioned places are "improper". At best they might be described as places where you run into more problems than usual. There's a way to waterproof your gun in a baggie that provides excellent access to the trigger. A level 2 retention holster might be preferred when you are going to be doing a lot of moving about, especially if it involves changes from vertical to horizontal and back again.

    As Nightmare pointed out, it is improper to carry on the residence/dwelling place of someone who does not want you to. SC law is a bit of overkill because of "some people" who I'm guessing forgot their manners once too often. Thankfully the law does not insist on permission each and every time. Also, complying with the law provides an opportunity to educate someone that LACs are just that as opposed to the crazed killers just waiting to "go off" that anti gun rights folks try to paint them as.

    It's probably improper to carry into the room where an MRI machine is, because your gun being sucked up by the magnetic field could damage the machinery. Or is that just imprudent?

    I'm not allowed any more to make reference to http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-19897.html& , but that's just a description of inconvenience, not impropriety.

    Seems finding places where it is improper to carry is more difficult than even I thought it would be.

    stay safe.
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    I didn't carry while I was in the hospital, and would not even have thought about carrying into surgery. There are some venues, very few, that the use of a firearm is not safe, and would most likely cause innocents to be injured if used. A crowded nightclub where there is drinking, and often fights, especially if the club has adequate security.
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Seems finding places where it is improper to carry is more difficult than even I thought it would be.

    stay safe.
    I was hoping that folks with differing view points than my own, concerning liberty, would give their opinions and open some discussions.

    Perhaps carrying while performing a play.

    Or if you're a stripper. Seems improper unless you have a safe place to put it after you strip it off.
    Last edited by twoskinsonemanns; 06-03-2015 at 09:17 AM.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    While surfing, diving, or snorkeling? The whole saltwater vs steel thing.

    Although I suppose I would make an exception for a surfer whose gun matched his board.

    Carry especially when surfing.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Full Definition of IMPROPER: not proper: as
    c : not suited to the circumstances, design, or end <improper medicine>
    d : not in accord with propriety, modesty, good manners, or good taste <improper language>
    Where? Anywhere the property owner indicates that my money is not welcome because I am peaceably armed.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I was reading another thread wherein someone stated there are venues in which it is proper to ban firearms.
    So I was thinking I would like to hear people's opinions on where it is improper to carry. Also please feel free to specify OC or CC if one or the other both not both would be improper.

    I'll go first: physical therapists office. As I had a bit of a mishap several years ago, my gun clattering to the floor during a stretch and leaving my quite red faced.
    i partake in regular deep tissue massages from masseur in the area or whenever i am on the road, and upon disrobing ensure my firearm is put on the chair in the room. not one individual has said a word.

    my current adventures in the local ortho office is i go in w/o firearm, as they are posted, but with holster on. initial visit, first thing out of the doc's mouth after 'HI" was "whatcha carrying?" come to find out he wants the firearm type i am carrying really bad...lol

    places not to carry, Turkish bath?

    ipse
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Don't they make "guns" specifically for underwater use, though?
    need to find and watch the mythbusters show about bullets under water...great show and i am sure youll be shocked at the results of their 'experiement(s)'

    ipse

    addendum:
    Episode 34: Bulletproof Water
    Hiding underwater can stop bullets from hitting you.
    PARTLY CONFIRMED
    All supersonic bullets (up to .50-caliber) disintegrated in less than 3 feet (90 cm) of water, but slower velocity bullets, like pistol rounds, need up to 8 feet (2.4 metres) of water to slow to non-lethal speeds. Shotgun slugs require even more depth (the exact depth couldn’t be determined because their one test broke the rig). However, as most water-bound shots are fired from an angle, less actual depth is needed to create the necessary separation.

    http://mythbustersresults.com/episode34

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvSTuLIjRm8
    Last edited by solus; 06-03-2015 at 04:44 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I was hoping that folks with differing view points than my own, concerning liberty, would give their opinions and open some discussions.

    Perhaps carrying while performing a play.

    Or if you're a stripper. Seems improper unless you have a safe place to put it after you strip it off.
    Chippendale show or cheeeezzzzzy bad neighbourhood type joint???


    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    places not to carry, Turkish bath?

    ipse
    Trying to remember the movie where the mob guys get whacked in a Turkish bath. Might not have happened if they were carrying.

    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    Chippendale show or cheeeezzzzzy bad neighbourhood type joint???


    ipse
    More like improper places to be. (Well, maybe not the Chippendale show - depends on why you are attending.)

    stay safe.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I was hoping that folks with differing view points than my own, concerning liberty, would give their opinions and open some discussions.

    .
    I wish you would make up your mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    .

    Seems finding places where it is improper to carry is more difficult than even I thought it would be.

    stay safe.
    How much of a differing viewpoint do I need to have? And positing that it is difficult to find places where it would be improper is not opening up the discussion - especially in light of the comments of both yourself and others?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    need to find and watch the mythbusters show about bullets under water...great show and i am sure youll be shocked at the results of their 'experiement(s)'

    ipse
    That episode ruined many movies for me. :/ LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I was hoping that folks with differing view points than my own, concerning liberty, would give their opinions and open some discussions.
    That's what I was doin'--its implicit in the places I didn't mention.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    That's what I was doin'--its implicit in the places I didn't mention.
    Explicit in the places not mentioned by you.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Improper, or dangerous, or properly outlawed? Some overlap.

    There are locations where presence of a gun presents a unique and legitimate danger. WW has mentioned rooms with MRI machines. This article discusses what is probably a very rare case of a 1911 discharging after flying across the room toward the MRI. It was cocked and locked and the safety prevented the slide from cycling. Inertial discharge enabled by the magnetic field overcoming internal safeties.

    Similarly, I'm told that aluminum processing plants have very strict rules about any metal at all inside the plant (to the point that when my wife was doing blood draws at one such plant, all snacks had to be in plastic; no metal cans or wrappers at all). If a wedding band, wrist watch or ear rings pose a legitimate risk due to the metal, perhaps guns do as well. Maybe an exception for Glocks.

    Prisons, jails, and other locations where the risk of being over powered by overwhelming numbers and having the gun taken are high. Court rooms might go on this list, or be included as an area where emotions run very high.

    It is a really bad idea--and often illegal--to carry when one is going to intoxicated, or impaired. This includes partying to the point of intoxication, going under anesthesia, or being under the influence of prescription drugs that impair motor skills or judgment beyond some point.

    It would be counter-productive to OC in situations where doing so will run counter to one's other goals. I carry to protect life and limb. Carrying is secondary to life and limb. For example, I will OC when visiting someone in the hospital, but will CC if I am at the hospital as a patient's advocate. In most cases, OCing to a job interview is still in the same category as wearing a T-shirt proclaiming your other political affiliations, your sexual orientation, religious affiliation, marital status, and listing all your disabilities. Generally, a prospective employer has no need to know about my views on firearms.

    I think it is poor form to carry into a private home or a house of worship contrary to the wishes of the residents or church, respectively. Double poor form to OC rather than to be discrete in such situations if one is going to carry.

    I think it is rude to OC as a guest at events where the known presence of a gun is going to be disruptive (in a bad way), unwanted, or is likely to cause the host or his other guests to be uncomfortable. There are a host of situations where we modify our usual or preferred attire to match the expectations of our hosts. Moving a gun out of sight seems to me to be no more offensive than wearing a tie, and less likely to strangle me. What is in my pocket or inside my waistband is generally nobody's business. Alternatively, a man can choose to avoid events where his chosen manner of dress (including OC) would be unwelcome.

    Obviously it would be grossly inappropriate (and against forum rules) to carry (and advocate carrying) contrary to existing laws. By definition, LACs (and members of OCDO) obey the law while we work to change laws that we dislike.

    I do not think there is anything wrong with carrying into a business (place of public accommodation) in violation of their policies so long as it is legal to carry despite such policies. The larger and less personal the business, the less problem. I would give more deference to the policies of a mom & pop store than I would a corporate chain. There may practical benefits to CC rather than OC in such cases.


    Places that should NOT be off limits legally but often are:
    • Schools, colleges, hospitals, libraries, wildlife refuges, sports stadiums, etc.
    • College dorms
    • Restaurants that serve alcohol & bars including if the carrier wants to have a drink (so long as he isn't intoxicated/impaired)
    • Commercial airliners (it was perfectly legal up until the mid '70s I believe)
    • Military bases
    • Federal facilities like post offices, office buildings, National Park Visitor Centers
    • Certainly some others I've forgotten


    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    need to find and watch the mythbusters show about bullets under water...great show and i am sure youll be shocked at the results of their 'experiement(s)'

    ipse

    addendum:
    Episode 34: Bulletproof Water
    Hiding underwater can stop bullets from hitting you.
    PARTLY CONFIRMED
    All supersonic bullets (up to .50-caliber) disintegrated in less than 3 feet (90 cm) of water, but slower velocity bullets, like pistol rounds, need up to 8 feet (2.4 metres) of water to slow to non-lethal speeds. Shotgun slugs require even more depth (the exact depth couldn’t be determined because their one test broke the rig). However, as most water-bound shots are fired from an angle, less actual depth is needed to create the necessary separation.

    http://mythbustersresults.com/episode34

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvSTuLIjRm8
    Ahh yes I think I've seen this before. I actually was surprised when I first saw it! However I was thinking more along the lines of a weapon similar to, but not necessarily a firearm, purpose-built for underwater usage.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Air density is 1.225 kg/m^3 Water density is about 1000 kg/m^3 Drag forces are directly proportional to density, shape_drag_coefficient, shape_area, and the square of velocity. Water is juust about a thousand times as dense as air.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-03-2015 at 09:48 PM.
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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I don't want this thread to derail. I use leather holsters with no reasonable retention.
    I will concede you are right in any scorn you would direct my way for my choice.

    Back on topic:

    Nude beaches! Seems like an improper place to carry. ESPECIALLY CC!
    I use to skinny dip in the stone quarries around Bloomington IN (Indiana University) in the 70s & early 80s and ALWAYS carried in a rolled up towel; and came as close to shooting someone as I ever have there. OH MAN those were the days!!!

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