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Thread: Your opinions: Where is it improper to carry?

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Your opinions: Where is it improper to carry?

    I was reading another thread wherein someone stated there are venues in which it is proper to ban firearms.
    So I was thinking I would like to hear people's opinions on where it is improper to carry. Also please feel free to specify OC or CC if one or the other both not both would be improper.

    I'll go first: physical therapists office. As I had a bit of a mishap several years ago, my gun clattering to the floor during a stretch and leaving my quite red faced.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    .

    I'll go first: physical therapists office. As I had a bit of a mishap several years ago, my gun clattering to the floor during a stretch and leaving my quite red faced.

    What holster were you using.
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    Where is it improper to carry?

    While surfing, diving, or snorkeling? The whole saltwater vs steel thing.

    Although I suppose I would make an exception for a surfer whose gun matched his board.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    While surfing, diving, or snorkeling? The whole saltwater vs steel thing.

    Although I suppose I would make an exception for a surfer whose gun matched his board.

    Don't they make "guns" specifically for underwater use, though?
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    What holster were you using.
    I don't want this thread to derail. I use leather holsters with no reasonable retention.
    I will concede you are right in any scorn you would direct my way for my choice.

    Back on topic:

    Nude beaches! Seems like an improper place to carry. ESPECIALLY CC!
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I don't want this thread to derail. I use leather holsters with no reasonable retention.
    I will concede you are right in any scorn you would direct my way for my choice.

    Back on topic:

    Nude beaches! Seems like an improper place to carry. ESPECIALLY CC!
    I would argue that its not improper, just difficult and/or painful.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    So far none of the mentioned places are "improper". At best they might be described as places where you run into more problems than usual. There's a way to waterproof your gun in a baggie that provides excellent access to the trigger. A level 2 retention holster might be preferred when you are going to be doing a lot of moving about, especially if it involves changes from vertical to horizontal and back again.

    As Nightmare pointed out, it is improper to carry on the residence/dwelling place of someone who does not want you to. SC law is a bit of overkill because of "some people" who I'm guessing forgot their manners once too often. Thankfully the law does not insist on permission each and every time. Also, complying with the law provides an opportunity to educate someone that LACs are just that as opposed to the crazed killers just waiting to "go off" that anti gun rights folks try to paint them as.

    It's probably improper to carry into the room where an MRI machine is, because your gun being sucked up by the magnetic field could damage the machinery. Or is that just imprudent?

    I'm not allowed any more to make reference to http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-19897.html& , but that's just a description of inconvenience, not impropriety.

    Seems finding places where it is improper to carry is more difficult than even I thought it would be.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I didn't carry while I was in the hospital, and would not even have thought about carrying into surgery. There are some venues, very few, that the use of a firearm is not safe, and would most likely cause innocents to be injured if used. A crowded nightclub where there is drinking, and often fights, especially if the club has adequate security.
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Seems finding places where it is improper to carry is more difficult than even I thought it would be.

    stay safe.
    I was hoping that folks with differing view points than my own, concerning liberty, would give their opinions and open some discussions.

    Perhaps carrying while performing a play.

    Or if you're a stripper. Seems improper unless you have a safe place to put it after you strip it off.
    Last edited by twoskinsonemanns; 06-03-2015 at 08:17 AM.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    While surfing, diving, or snorkeling? The whole saltwater vs steel thing.

    Although I suppose I would make an exception for a surfer whose gun matched his board.

    Carry especially when surfing.

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    Full Definition of IMPROPER: not proper: as
    c : not suited to the circumstances, design, or end <improper medicine>
    d : not in accord with propriety, modesty, good manners, or good taste <improper language>
    Where? Anywhere the property owner indicates that my money is not welcome because I am peaceably armed.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I was reading another thread wherein someone stated there are venues in which it is proper to ban firearms.
    So I was thinking I would like to hear people's opinions on where it is improper to carry. Also please feel free to specify OC or CC if one or the other both not both would be improper.

    I'll go first: physical therapists office. As I had a bit of a mishap several years ago, my gun clattering to the floor during a stretch and leaving my quite red faced.
    i partake in regular deep tissue massages from masseur in the area or whenever i am on the road, and upon disrobing ensure my firearm is put on the chair in the room. not one individual has said a word.

    my current adventures in the local ortho office is i go in w/o firearm, as they are posted, but with holster on. initial visit, first thing out of the doc's mouth after 'HI" was "whatcha carrying?" come to find out he wants the firearm type i am carrying really bad...lol

    places not to carry, Turkish bath?

    ipse
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Don't they make "guns" specifically for underwater use, though?
    need to find and watch the mythbusters show about bullets under water...great show and i am sure youll be shocked at the results of their 'experiement(s)'

    ipse

    addendum:
    Episode 34: Bulletproof Water
    Hiding underwater can stop bullets from hitting you.
    PARTLY CONFIRMED
    All supersonic bullets (up to .50-caliber) disintegrated in less than 3 feet (90 cm) of water, but slower velocity bullets, like pistol rounds, need up to 8 feet (2.4 metres) of water to slow to non-lethal speeds. Shotgun slugs require even more depth (the exact depth couldn’t be determined because their one test broke the rig). However, as most water-bound shots are fired from an angle, less actual depth is needed to create the necessary separation.

    http://mythbustersresults.com/episode34

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvSTuLIjRm8
    Last edited by solus; 06-03-2015 at 03:44 PM.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I was hoping that folks with differing view points than my own, concerning liberty, would give their opinions and open some discussions.

    Perhaps carrying while performing a play.

    Or if you're a stripper. Seems improper unless you have a safe place to put it after you strip it off.
    Chippendale show or cheeeezzzzzy bad neighbourhood type joint???


    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    places not to carry, Turkish bath?

    ipse
    Trying to remember the movie where the mob guys get whacked in a Turkish bath. Might not have happened if they were carrying.

    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    Chippendale show or cheeeezzzzzy bad neighbourhood type joint???


    ipse
    More like improper places to be. (Well, maybe not the Chippendale show - depends on why you are attending.)

    stay safe.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I was hoping that folks with differing view points than my own, concerning liberty, would give their opinions and open some discussions.

    .
    I wish you would make up your mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    .

    Seems finding places where it is improper to carry is more difficult than even I thought it would be.

    stay safe.
    How much of a differing viewpoint do I need to have? And positing that it is difficult to find places where it would be improper is not opening up the discussion - especially in light of the comments of both yourself and others?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    need to find and watch the mythbusters show about bullets under water...great show and i am sure youll be shocked at the results of their 'experiement(s)'

    ipse
    That episode ruined many movies for me. :/ LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I was hoping that folks with differing view points than my own, concerning liberty, would give their opinions and open some discussions.
    That's what I was doin'--its implicit in the places I didn't mention.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Improper, or dangerous, or properly outlawed? Some overlap.

    There are locations where presence of a gun presents a unique and legitimate danger. WW has mentioned rooms with MRI machines. This article discusses what is probably a very rare case of a 1911 discharging after flying across the room toward the MRI. It was cocked and locked and the safety prevented the slide from cycling. Inertial discharge enabled by the magnetic field overcoming internal safeties.

    Similarly, I'm told that aluminum processing plants have very strict rules about any metal at all inside the plant (to the point that when my wife was doing blood draws at one such plant, all snacks had to be in plastic; no metal cans or wrappers at all). If a wedding band, wrist watch or ear rings pose a legitimate risk due to the metal, perhaps guns do as well. Maybe an exception for Glocks.

    Prisons, jails, and other locations where the risk of being over powered by overwhelming numbers and having the gun taken are high. Court rooms might go on this list, or be included as an area where emotions run very high.

    It is a really bad idea--and often illegal--to carry when one is going to intoxicated, or impaired. This includes partying to the point of intoxication, going under anesthesia, or being under the influence of prescription drugs that impair motor skills or judgment beyond some point.

    It would be counter-productive to OC in situations where doing so will run counter to one's other goals. I carry to protect life and limb. Carrying is secondary to life and limb. For example, I will OC when visiting someone in the hospital, but will CC if I am at the hospital as a patient's advocate. In most cases, OCing to a job interview is still in the same category as wearing a T-shirt proclaiming your other political affiliations, your sexual orientation, religious affiliation, marital status, and listing all your disabilities. Generally, a prospective employer has no need to know about my views on firearms.

    I think it is poor form to carry into a private home or a house of worship contrary to the wishes of the residents or church, respectively. Double poor form to OC rather than to be discrete in such situations if one is going to carry.

    I think it is rude to OC as a guest at events where the known presence of a gun is going to be disruptive (in a bad way), unwanted, or is likely to cause the host or his other guests to be uncomfortable. There are a host of situations where we modify our usual or preferred attire to match the expectations of our hosts. Moving a gun out of sight seems to me to be no more offensive than wearing a tie, and less likely to strangle me. What is in my pocket or inside my waistband is generally nobody's business. Alternatively, a man can choose to avoid events where his chosen manner of dress (including OC) would be unwelcome.

    Obviously it would be grossly inappropriate (and against forum rules) to carry (and advocate carrying) contrary to existing laws. By definition, LACs (and members of OCDO) obey the law while we work to change laws that we dislike.

    I do not think there is anything wrong with carrying into a business (place of public accommodation) in violation of their policies so long as it is legal to carry despite such policies. The larger and less personal the business, the less problem. I would give more deference to the policies of a mom & pop store than I would a corporate chain. There may practical benefits to CC rather than OC in such cases.


    Places that should NOT be off limits legally but often are:
    • Schools, colleges, hospitals, libraries, wildlife refuges, sports stadiums, etc.
    • College dorms
    • Restaurants that serve alcohol & bars including if the carrier wants to have a drink (so long as he isn't intoxicated/impaired)
    • Commercial airliners (it was perfectly legal up until the mid '70s I believe)
    • Military bases
    • Federal facilities like post offices, office buildings, National Park Visitor Centers
    • Certainly some others I've forgotten


    Charles

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    need to find and watch the mythbusters show about bullets under water...great show and i am sure youll be shocked at the results of their 'experiement(s)'

    ipse

    addendum:
    Episode 34: Bulletproof Water
    Hiding underwater can stop bullets from hitting you.
    PARTLY CONFIRMED
    All supersonic bullets (up to .50-caliber) disintegrated in less than 3 feet (90 cm) of water, but slower velocity bullets, like pistol rounds, need up to 8 feet (2.4 metres) of water to slow to non-lethal speeds. Shotgun slugs require even more depth (the exact depth couldn’t be determined because their one test broke the rig). However, as most water-bound shots are fired from an angle, less actual depth is needed to create the necessary separation.

    http://mythbustersresults.com/episode34

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvSTuLIjRm8
    Ahh yes I think I've seen this before. I actually was surprised when I first saw it! However I was thinking more along the lines of a weapon similar to, but not necessarily a firearm, purpose-built for underwater usage.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I don't want this thread to derail. I use leather holsters with no reasonable retention.
    I will concede you are right in any scorn you would direct my way for my choice.

    Back on topic:

    Nude beaches! Seems like an improper place to carry. ESPECIALLY CC!
    I use to skinny dip in the stone quarries around Bloomington IN (Indiana University) in the 70s & early 80s and ALWAYS carried in a rolled up towel; and came as close to shooting someone as I ever have there. OH MAN those were the days!!!

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I was reading another thread wherein someone stated there are venues in which it is proper to ban firearms.
    So I was thinking I would like to hear people's opinions on where it is improper to carry. Also please feel free to specify OC or CC if one or the other both not both would be improper.

    I'll go first: physical therapists office. As I had a bit of a mishap several years ago, my gun clattering to the floor during a stretch and leaving my quite red faced.
    Bolded for emphasis.

    Venues in which it is proper to ban firearms:
    1) Wherever a private citizen decides firearms would prevent his/her enjoyment of his/her PRIVATE property. Whether this will also lead to some thug(s) and/or criminals from visiting and enjoying said private property against the owner's wishes is another matter.
    2) See above.
    3) See (1) and (2).


    Where is it improper to carry (my list):
    1) When getting into an MRI machine (the M stands for Magnetic); unless you have one of those super-scary, 3D, Ghost-printed guns that don't use slide rails, firing pins, or AMMUNITION, you may not want to end up stuck to the inside of one such machine.
    a) Any other place that requires you to be in very close proximity to large, industrial-sized magnets.

    2) While doing Parkour/Freerunning; you may need to roll in such a manner that your 1911 spur hammer and upswept beavertail will leave distinct bruise marks on your favorite skin (the one you wear every day, all year)
    a) While practicing "Pilates", "Yoga", or playing "Twister".
    b) While doing any other activity which requires flexing/twisting your body into shapes that cause pinching or poking by your sidearm. A change of holster may alleviate the situation.

    3) While stepping onto a bathroom scale, unless you know and are able to subtract the weight of the holster, loaded sidearm, and accessories (is it wrong to accessorize? How much is "too much"? ).


    Just a thought, but I think I should add the following to my last will and testament:
    "Funeral and related ceremonies should take place in a Freedom-loving area. The following criteria must be met in order for the venue to be considered. "Freedom-loving":
    1) Attendees, regardless of occupation, must not be prohibited from carrying their Personal Defensive Tools, also known lovingly by the recently deceased as "sidearms", "guns", "toys", or "boom-sticks".

    2) The manner of carry must only be limited in accordance with the Four Rules of Firearm safety. Openly Carried and Discreetly Carried (AKA, "Concealed Carry"), fully-loaded sidearms are welcome, and actually requested of attendees by the recently deceased. Were he not dead, the recently deceased would have insisted on Openly Carrying a firearm at his party, and would likely have chosen to carry his most treasured 1911 in .45 ACP, "cocked and locked".

    3) Likewise, the magazine capacity shall not be limited by some arbitrary means. If the magazine fits, you must'a quit trying to bar their entry.

    4) No restrictions shall be imposed on the caloric, carbohydrate, sodium, or sugar content of the refreshments to be served. Vegetables and other "healthy crap", as described by the recently deceased, shall be made available, but will not be the main dish. As the recently deceased loved to say, "Plants are what FOOD eats."

    5) The location shall not prohibit firearm-shaped sculptures or other such decorations; the recently deceased would have probably enjoyed and wished to take a photo both of and WITH said sculpture.


    One final addendum (forgive the sappy-ness at the end):
    I thought of the funeral thing after reading about some recently-deceased OC activists (died in traffic accident, were enroute to a rally in Virginia, IIRC) whose families requested that attendees not carry firearms to the funeral. Some members here pointed out (and I wholeheartedly agreed) that the deceased would probably have asked attendees to show support and solidarity by bringing their firearms to the event. One last rally, so to speak. And as I type this up, I realize that I'm masking the feelings of dread and sadness that their death brought on, knowing full well that my day will come as well but I hope will be a day for community and visible solidarity. OCing has become an integral part of my life, and though I am not as active as I well may be and should be, I'd like for that to be commemorated by allowing me one final OC meetup with my Brothers before I am laid down in my final resting place.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 06-03-2015 at 10:39 PM. Reason: Just a thought about my last will & testament...
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Piper covered pretty much all my list and Rusty Young Man picked up the snarky ones.

    I started to post earlier but, you know, wife-feelings-etc, so by the time I got back and refreshed it had been covered.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    ... Water is juust about a thousand times as dense as air.
    I've met people who about a thousand times as dense as myself.

    Where is it improper to carry?
    Places where the gun introduces excess, added risk without some offsetting benefit. I put commercial aircraft on this list - 9/11 would not have happened if people had any idea what was planned, and a gun would not have been needed to stop it. You have to be prepared to do whatever it takes to survive, but a hole in the windscreen of a jumbo jet doesn't bode well for control of the aircraft. Top this with the new problem of impenetrable cockpit doors and we have a real problem, but I digress.

    Where people go knowing there will be strong emotional events (European soccer, anyone?) Texas prohibits carry at college or pro sporting events. I have mixed emotion about this, but the solution is probably to grow up and not get so invested in something that doesn't really involve the spectators. People probably get just as drunk and emotional watching the game at Hooters and that is a legal-to-carry venue here.

    Where people go to get f'ed up. I think bars are fine, but dance clubs less so. But this implies that people are incapable of self control. Maybe just make it clear that you shouldn't be getting your drink on if you have your gun on.

    Hospitals are full of desperate people, but those determined to do harm will do so. My concern is for those who receive very bad news and overreact.

    Texas just passed campus carry, and I have mixed feelings about students having guns in dorm rooms. I hope the schools have strong rules for storage in dorms and do a good amount of education about locking them up while not carrying. I know I had lots of folks wandering in and out of my room, in various stages of inebriation. And lots of pranks. Some people just have no limits on the idiotic stuff they do - not just the carriers but those around them. And you don't get to pick dorm roommates many places, so caution is needed.

    I think the best plan in most cases is peer pressure and education. There are people who will carry everywhere, just like they chew with their mouths open or cuss like sailors in front of elementary-age children. A wink and a nod is useful when a bawdy proposal is too rough - CC may be useful when not wanting to offend those who could simply make a rule to exclude all carry. Not our job to evangelize and change minds of those who have no interest in our "cause." Some people don't like seeing two men kiss. Similarly, open carrying a gun where it is not welcome is discourteous. Polite society goes both ways. Just my way of saying that I think moderation is good.

    It is probably best to not carry a firearm into a venue where toy guns or paint guns are being used. Someone accidentally drops a real gun and another player picks it up thinking it is part of the game.

    Best to not carry loaded guns if you are partaking in martial arts, edged weapon, or hand-to-hand training. Best to unload when in a gun training course unless it is known hot range.

    Open carry at a gun show presents issues because we all like to try holsters, cases, and handle guns. While trouble can be easily avoided, you've all seen the guys at a show that simply don't get the "don't point a gun at anything, treat it as it is loaded, etc." and sweep everyone, even pulling triggers on guns they haven't checked. It's not so much the carriers that have me concerned with this.

    That's a start. And much of it is a personal preference, but that is kind of what you asked about. I am not really advocating laws about these things.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    I've met people who about a thousand times as dense as myself.

    Where is it improper to carry?
    Places where the gun introduces excess, added risk without some offsetting benefit. I put commercial aircraft on this list - 9/11 would not have happened if people had any idea what was planned, and a gun would not have been needed to stop it. You have to be prepared to do whatever it takes to survive, but a hole in the windscreen of a jumbo jet doesn't bode well for control of the aircraft. Top this with the new problem of impenetrable cockpit doors and we have a real problem, but I digress.
    But isn't it now illegal to carry on an airplane? (Yes, I'm old enough to remember when it was not.)

    Where people go knowing there will be strong emotional events (European soccer, anyone?) Texas prohibits carry at college or pro sporting events. I have mixed emotion about this, but the solution is probably to grow up and not get so invested in something that doesn't really involve the spectators.
    Aren't those places covered by laws? Impropriety has nothing to do with violating the law.
    People probably get just as drunk and emotional watching the game at Hooters and that is a legal-to-carry venue here.

    Where people go to get f'ed up. I think bars are fine, but dance clubs less so. But this implies that people are incapable of self control. Maybe just make it clear that you shouldn't be getting your drink on if you have your gun on.
    By Jove, I think he's got it. Again it's not a question of being improper. It's about not being stupid.

    Hospitals are full of desperate people, but those determined to do harm will do so. My concern is for those who receive very bad news and overreact.
    Over-react how? Kill themself? Kill the doctor/nurse bringing the bad news? As you say, those that are determined to do harm, no matter how suddenly that decision is made, will find ways to do so. It's improper for people to behave both illegally and rudely like that.

    Texas just passed campus carry, and I have mixed feelings about students having guns in dorm rooms. I hope the schools have strong rules for storage in dorms and do a good amount of education about locking them up while not carrying. I know I had lots of folks wandering in and out of my room, in various stages of inebriation. And lots of pranks. Some people just have no limits on the idiotic stuff they do - not just the carriers but those around them. And you don't get to pick dorm roommates many places, so caution is needed.
    Oh, dear sweet shivering Shiva!! College students who are 21 or older are too irresponsible/dumb/incompetent to properly secure their firearms and control both who come into their room an the behavior of those that do come in. But 18 year olds are fully competent to vote.

    I think the best plan in most cases is peer pressure and education. There are people who will carry everywhere, just like they chew with their mouths open or cuss like sailors in front of elementary-age children. A wink and a nod is useful when a bawdy proposal is too rough - CC may be useful when not wanting to offend those who could simply make a rule to exclude all carry. Not our job to evangelize and change minds of those who have no interest in our "cause." Some people don't like seeing two men kiss. Similarly, open carrying a gun where it is not welcome is discourteous. Polite society goes both ways. Just my way of saying that I think moderation is good.
    Maybe, but it sure sounds more like "Besides complying with existing laws (until we can change/repeal the onerous/stupid ones) we need to care more about the FEELINGZ of others."

    It is probably best to not carry a firearm into a venue where toy guns or paint guns are being used. Someone accidentally drops a real gun and another player picks it up thinking it is part of the game.
    Why would they accidentally drop their real gun? And if they did, why don't they know it right away and regain control of it? Walking around I use a Level 1 holster. Back when I could run and jump I wore a Level 2 when I knew or expected to be doing those things. It's called personal responsibility.

    Best to not carry loaded guns if you are partaking in martial arts, edged weapon, or hand-to-hand training.
    OK, I'll agree on no carrying loaded firearms but only because use of firearms is itself a martial art, and it is my firm conviction that unless you are training to perfect form the option to switch from close-quarter combat to combat at a distance is disadvantaging the trainee. Someone comes and sucker punches me I want as many options as possible that do not involve going hand to hand. Running away is one option; when there is no safe retreat possible shooting becomes another option.

    Best to unload when in a gun training course unless it is known hot range.
    I consider cold ranges to be insulting - with the exception of those going through first-time gun handling and gun safety training. Once you get past that you have a responsibility to behave safely. I'm torn between being kicked out for the rest of the day and total banning for those who behave unsafely.

    Open carry at a gun show presents issues because we all like to try holsters, cases, and handle guns. While trouble can be easily avoided, you've all seen the guys at a show that simply don't get the "don't point a gun at anything, treat it as it is loaded, etc." and sweep everyone, even pulling triggers on guns they haven't checked. It's not so much the carriers that have me concerned with this.
    But why is it improper for me to carry because some yahoo who does not know better, or does not care, behaves inappropriately and/or dangerously? Group punishment never did sit well with me. (Yes I know the promoter is going to do everything to reduce the threat of liability. That does not bother me as much as someone who suggests we all need to be restrained because a few might behave inappropriately.

    That's a start. And much of it is a personal preference, but that is kind of what you asked about. I am not really advocating laws about these things.
    Nor do you appear willing to see the difference between behaving inappropriately needing to be controlled and claiming that carrying is improper because of what some people might do when they behave inappropriately.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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