Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 45

Thread: Ffl?

  1. #1
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543

    Ffl?

    I'm contemplating becoming an FFL operating from my home. Thoughts pro or con? Comments related to being an FFL in VIRGINIA in general and (sigh) Northern Virginia in specific will be appreciated.
    Last edited by JamesCanby; 06-03-2015 at 01:54 PM.
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  2. #2
    Regular Member bbMurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    61
    I use an FFL that operates out of his home in Northern VA. Very easy arrangements. I sit at his kitchen table and fill out the forms, he processes them online and then goes upstairs to retrieve my purchases, I pay his transfer/paperwork fee and I'm on my way. Easy and simple.

  3. #3
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    Quote Originally Posted by bbMurphy View Post
    I use an FFL that operates out of his home in Northern VA. Very easy arrangements. I sit at his kitchen table and fill out the forms, he processes them online and then goes upstairs to retrieve my purchases, I pay his transfer/paperwork fee and I'm on my way. Easy and simple.
    Yep, I've done the same thing at small, one operator FFLs and there was no hassle from the purchaser's standpoint.

    What I'm more interested in seeing are the pros and cons of BEING an FFL that works from his/her home, but thanks for the reply.
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  4. #4
    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    163
    The two nearest FFLs to me charge $5 and $0. Not a lot of profit there.

  5. #5
    Regular Member bbMurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    SNIP... What I'm more interested in seeing are the pros and cons of BEING an FFL that works from his/her home ...
    I think that the best way to find out the pros and cons is to ask one of these FFL home based folk about this. Don't know if anybody else could give you an actual and factual answer.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    IIRC BATEFEIEIO did/is still cracking down on kitchen table FFLs, although I keep hearing that new ones are coming on line. Also IIRC many jurisdictions (in NoVa) disregard the courts' findings that imposing additional burdens on home-based FFLs, when compared to other home-based businesses. You need to know zoning laws inside out and know when some of them are deliberately designed to prevent you from operating that type of business without some compelling government interest.

    The big question, of course, is whether or not you have the cash to tie up in inventory and insurance. While it may be possible I do not see how kitchen table FFLs who only do transfers keep even, let alone turn a profit. And turning a profit is supposed to be one of the requirements of maintaining a FFL.

    I'm not trying to talk you out of any plans you have. Just trying to point out how hard it is made.

    Good luck. And

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  7. #7
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961
    Use FFL 123. Easy to find with google online. Worth every penny. Before you start the licensing process decide whether you want to incorporate. If you decide later to incorporate you will start the process over again.

    Get your business license and take care of any local paperwork before you apply to the ATF.

    The FFL is easy to get if you tell the city/towwn clerk that your business is an online mailorder business. This is true if you buy or sell on Gunbroker or Auction Arms. Just don't tell them it is guns, that is none of their business.

    You can get your Federal IEN online today, it is an easy process.

    When you get the EIN and the Business license you can get your Virginia Sales tax number (If you are going to sell at gun shows make sure you register as a multiple location vendor.) For the EIN the website will tell you that you do not need an EIN for a sole propriotorship, but there is an exception for gun dealers.

    After all this is done send in your FFL application. Tell them that you will buy and sell online If you tell them that you will only sell at gun shows they will deny your application.

    If you want to transfer from your house you will probably need a conditional use permit from the city/town. This is the hard part where many cities and towns say no. I am from Newport News and cannot get the conditional use permit.

    When the BATFE comes to your house be ready for a calm meeting these are the industry compliance folks not the kick down your door enforcement folks. When they ask to see your secure area, you can use a closet with a locking door. That is what I did.

    After you get your FFL license you need to apply for your Virginia Dealer and seller number (DIN and SIN). This is fairly straighforward and the process is outlined well in the Virginia Firearms Dealer Handbook.

    The process took me 5 months to navigate before I had everything I needed from the BATFE, Virginia and my city. Hope this helps. Good luck!

    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  8. #8
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Use FFL 123. Easy to find with google online. Worth every penny. Before you start the licensing process decide whether you want to incorporate. If you decide later to incorporate you will start the process over again.

    Get your business license and take care of any local paperwork before you apply to the ATF.

    The FFL is easy to get if you tell the city/towwn clerk that your business is an online mailorder business. This is true if you buy or sell on Gunbroker or Auction Arms. Just don't tell them it is guns, that is none of their business.
    [snip]
    Thanks, Thundar ... that's very helpful procedure-wise. Can you describe what your experiences have been in handling transfers?
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,765
    I'm PMing you the email address of an individual who until very recently was actively an FFL from his home in NoVA.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    Subscribing to follow the conversation.

  11. #11
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Accomac, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,213
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Subscribing to follow the conversation.
    Me too!
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    184

    Ffl

    One thing to be aware of is the ffl list is public record along with ffl address (in your case your home) id be concerned about having my name and home address listed all over the internet as having alot of guns.


    Make sure you have a nice solid safe.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by conhntr View Post
    One thing to be aware of is the ffl list is public record along with ffl address (in your case your home) id be concerned about having my name and home address listed all over the internet as having alot of guns.


    Make sure you have a nice solid safe.
    But think of all the opportunities to meet new and exciting people. [/sarcasm]

    And yes, a safe, not a residential security cabinet.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  14. #14
    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    163
    Quote Originally Posted by conhntr View Post
    One thing to be aware of is the ffl list is public record along with ffl address (in your case your home) id be concerned about having my name and home address listed all over the internet as having alot of guns.


    Make sure you have a nice solid safe.
    Bolted to the floor and empty. Safes are targets, that advertise, "I'm valuable and in here".

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    184
    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaResident View Post
    Bolted to the floor and empty. Safes are targets, that advertise, "I'm valuable and in here".
    Well if your gonnna do that in northern Viginia you have to do it the right way and fill it with some sandbags

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaResident View Post
    Bolted to the floor and empty. Safes are targets, that advertise, "I'm valuable and in here".
    Even small safes (not RSCs) start around 3/4 ton. Get one big enough to store some sales inventory and you are going to seriously irk a professional if they have to go up some steps. (They are placated by huge sums of money - often a per delivery charge + per stair step charge + by the foot from the closest place to your entrance in your driveway to where you want it.

    http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/buyers-...best-gun-safe/

    http://www.nashvillesafehouse.com/fa...buying-a-safe/

    http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  17. #17
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Even small safes (not RSCs) start around 3/4 ton. Get one big enough to store some sales inventory and you are going to seriously irk a professional if they have to go up some steps. (They are placated by huge sums of money - often a per delivery charge + per stair step charge + by the foot from the closest place to your entrance in your driveway to where you want it.

    http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/buyers-...best-gun-safe/

    http://www.nashvillesafehouse.com/fa...buying-a-safe/

    http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

    stay safe.
    I already have a substantial gun safe. However, it is not my initial intention to "store some sales inventory," rather it is to handle transfers which I'm thinking would involve no more than the temporary storage of one or two firearms at a time -- well within my capacity. So far as I understand it, being an FFL provides benefits in addition to the fees derived from providing a transfer capability.
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Chesterfield
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I already have a substantial gun safe. However, it is not my initial intention to "store some sales inventory," rather it is to handle transfers which I'm thinking would involve no more than the temporary storage of one or two firearms at a time -- well within my capacity. So far as I understand it, being an FFL provides benefits in addition to the fees derived from providing a transfer capability.
    As an FFL, I can say that the "temporary" storage can sometimes become an extended time depending on the buyers schedule and the VA State Police response to the 4473/SP-65 submission.

    Also I'm curious as to what you understand the benefits of being an FFL are. FWIW, the ATF is very clear that you must be actively involved in the firearms industry and not use the FFL to primarily enhance your own firearms collection.

  19. #19
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    Quote Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
    As an FFL, I can say that the "temporary" storage can sometimes become an extended time depending on the buyers schedule and the VA State Police response to the 4473/SP-65 submission.

    Also I'm curious as to what you understand the benefits of being an FFL are. FWIW, the ATF is very clear that you must be actively involved in the firearms industry and not use the FFL to primarily enhance your own firearms collection.
    Thanks, Cory. My OP was to find out what the experiences of other FFLs on this board might be or have been, including the benefits and downsides of being an FFL.

    No intent here just to increase my "collection." I have just about all the firearms I need for personal protection and to use in the classes I teach. If I do go the FFL route, it will be to provide one more transfer point in this progressive/liberal area of NoVA. It's more of a "service" thing than it would be a substantial revenue generator.
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  20. #20
    Regular Member nemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Winchester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I'm contemplating becoming an FFL operating from my home. Thoughts pro or con? Comments related to being an FFL in VIRGINIA in general and (sigh) Northern Virginia in specific will be appreciated.
    Coincidently, I am considering the same thing. As an additional question to those who already have one: can the holder get a discount on ammo?

  21. #21
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,883
    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    Coincidently, I am considering the same thing. As an additional question to those who already have one: can the holder get a discount on ammo?
    nemo, et al., the answer is once your ffl is obtained, you must establish appropriate distributor's relationships, who want 'store' front photos submitted with their applications. once the application gauntlet is passed, you will discern there ares certain types of ammo which is completely unavailable in 'smaller' quantities (defined as under thousands of rounds) but being the smart business person you are, you established an account w/brownells and lo and behold you go sign in and find find the ammo and then discover your account doesn't get you a discount on anything!!

    further, if you are attempting to purchase a singular or 'couple' firearms from one of your wholesale distributors, you find the a singular firearm costs you, say $450 (msrp is $575). small markup but doable. then because you are only a one, two, three buyer at a time, you must pay a 'shipping fee of oh say $40-50 to overnight the firearm to you. opps your small markup is diminishing but it is the cost of doing business and it is a deduction from the business' income tax.

    you ordered the customer's firearm they indicated they wanted, it arrived, you call your customer and they tell you the great news...they found it off of BUD's for $475 and could you please do the xfer paperwork for your customary $25 fee? thanks...

    finally, ATF will specifically ask why are you getting a 01 dealer FFL head's up...the incorrect response 'is so i can purchase firearms, accessories, and ammo for my and families personal use!!'

    the nice agent will smile and say thank you during the interview process.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  22. #22
    Regular Member nemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Winchester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    nemo, et al., the answer is once your ffl is obtained, you must establish appropriate distributor's relationships.... usw.
    ipse
    Does that fall under what they call the law of diminishing returns? :-)

    Thanks, Solus

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Chesterfield
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    Does that fall under what they call the law of diminishing returns? :-)

    Thanks, Solus
    To a great extent, yes. I can buy from about 10 different distributors and probably 8 of them required photographs of the inside, outside and signage for the business before setting up my account. In fact, one distributor told me recently that they were weeding out the home businesses and would only sell to brick-and-mortar gun stores. Once you successfully set up an account there typically is a discounted shipping rate above a certain dollar amount spent - usually 800-1000 per order.

    But as Solus pointed out, ammo is no easier to find for FFLs than regular folks.

  24. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1

    Thumbs up Best Gun Safes For Rifles And Long Barreled Guns

    The best gun safe is a storage space specifically meant for firearms used in homes and businesses to defend against intruders or burglars. However, with the overwhelming number of safes available in the market, these days purchasing one may prove to be a difficult decision. https://thegunsafes.net/best-gun-safe-reviews/

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,158
    Quote Originally Posted by peterkenwitty View Post
    purchasing one may prove to be a difficult decision.
    Or not. A gun in a safe is worse and less useful than a boat anchor in a safe, neither is at hand when it is needed. The most useful and safe gun is the one in your holster at your side.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •