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Thread: Would a week dedicated to Open Carry be useful?

  1. #1
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    Would a week dedicated to Open Carry be useful?

    So we began talking about open carry on a rather active firearm facebook group with 10,000 members though-out my state. After about a week of discussion, I took in some pretty interesting opinions and contributed my own. It seems that even though millions of Americans conceal carry a firearm on a fairly regular or daily basis, there's a general stigma with openly carrying that, I feel, does more harm than good for gun owners. Here are some of the highlights that I took away from that thread.

    Open carry ...
    * draws unnecessary attention.
    * makes people nervous if you're not in uniform.
    * _shouldn't_ make people nervous, because it affirms that you're certifiably not a felon or wife beater.
    * is perceived to only be exercised by extremists -- possibly with mental disorders.
    * is quite possibly only being exercised by extremists -- because we normal people are not.

    Concealed carry ...
    * hides the fact that so many millions of citizens do indeed exercise their right to own and carry.
    * makes it difficult to keep gun ownership in the mainstream because there's a belief that nobody owns guns (they can't see them).
    * does very little to garner respect for the private citizen, their personal space, their civil liberties, their human rights.
    * does very little to adjust the attitudes and behaviors of criminals or would-be criminals.
    * does very little to adjust the attitudes and behaviors of politicians who propose legislation that violate respect for individuals' rights.

    I do believe with utmost confidence that gun ownership is what keeps this country free from real modern-day forms of tyranny. The only reason we don't have police officers raiding people's homes because they downloaded a questionable MP3 file or because they did something similarly frivolous or unpopular, is because legislators are burdened with the simple truth that "We can't pass this law; It would endanger the lives of law enforcement if we did." This is exactly why "no knock warrants" have been scaled back or made illegal, because officers and civilians get hurt while executing them.
    Threat of needless bloodshed over petty copyright laws or minor drug possession or (insert unpopular frivolous thing here) is exactly the thing that prevents needless bloodshed, and petty laws.

    But how do we keep Americans armed if they think guns have become outdated and obsolete? People have only ever seen one on a cop or on a criminal on TV. And those officers come to schools and tell our youth that guns are bad, and they should never ever touch, let alone own one.

    Anyway. Long story short. (It was a long conversation I mentioned)

    Why don't we have an observance for Open Carry?

    I think only one day would be too short for most people. This wouldn't be a protest or parade, anyway.
    And one month would probably be too long and stretch people's attention too thin.

    (Like my nickname suggests) I want to see an Open Carry Week.

    Those of us who can do so legally, and especially those of us who already carry concealed, should all decide on a week that -- when the opportunity is there -- we open carry our firearms instead of concealing them.

    Q. But why even have a week? We're legally allowed to Open Carry all year round!
    A. Because it needs to reach the public knowledge, anticipation and expectation.

    If there was an observance, and we really tried hard to observe it together, we suddenly become a presence and expectation and a normality in society.

    "Don't freak out. It's only Open Carry Week. They're doing it everywhere now. Really surprised there's that many gun owners... I never even knew!"

    And let me wrap up this post with a proposed week.

    Open Carry Week begins July 5th.

    That's it. The day after Independence Day.
    Pick a day, or several days during that week, when it's opportune for you, and just open carry.
    Arrange meet-ups, go shooting, hold gun shows, give lectures and presentations. Take the opportunity to tell shop owners that you'll only frequent their establishment if your gun can come with you.
    Normalize gun ownership and carry.

    I don't recommend people open carry ON July 4th, because that's become a family holiday, a day too commonly associated with drinking, and worse, a day when a lot of idiots like to shoot off their guns in the air.
    We don't want to interrupt the celebrations, or be associated with those idiots either. Besides, most of us will be with our families, maybe drinking, and in heavily crowded parks where we don't want to create a scene.

    Sorry for the winded first-post. Didn't mean to make this sound like an advertisement either. Just that I've given it a lot of thought, and I would really like to rally people behind the idea and see it flourish!
    My gun club and fraternity will be observing Open Carry Week this year.

    Discuss!
    Last edited by Open Carry Week; 06-04-2015 at 05:05 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Don't see the need for an "Open Carry Week."

    We seek to normalize the OC of holstered hand guns as we go about our everyday routines.

    Note that there is a lot of negativity in your post relating to drinking, family, parks, and connecting those to OC - suggest you spend more time here and you'll find these have all been answered.....repeatedly.

    Oh and yes I definitely will open carry on the 4th of July.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-04-2015 at 05:43 AM. Reason: added
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    OCW's screed is a compendium of shallow thinking characterized by projection of his prejudices onto others.

    I do not particularly associate Independence Day with drinking, as he characterized it. I will drink as I normally do, not to preclude my bearing arms either in parade or private.

    While it may not engender the best of perceptions in shallow thinkers, there is nothing particularly unsafe in air-shots as a brief repair to physics and probability will show. Air-shots are how fireworks are launched, how many are burned by their falling debris. Notice the recent absence of such reports from the lamestream media.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    OCW -

    Welcome to OCDO.

    Do not pay too much attention to Nightmare - he tends to see things under the bed and gets cranky when he has to reconcile his version of what the perfect world should be with reality.

    But
    I don't recommend people open carry ON July 4th, because that's become a family holiday, a day too commonly associated with drinking, and worse, a day when a lot of idiots like to shoot off their guns in the air.
    We don't want to interrupt the celebrations, or be associated with those idiots either. Besides, most of us will be with our families, maybe drinking, and in heavily crowded parks where we don't want to create a scene.
    simply cannot pass without comment.

    You want to expose folks to the fact that open carrying is not threatening but suggest that those who OC are too irresponsible to control their drinking or shooting their guns in the air. Further, you say you want to normalize the sight of people OCing but don't want to OC for fear the horses will faint and the women stampede.1 That is downright insulting - my seconds await the naming of your seconds.

    stay safe.

    1 - that's my patented, copyrighted, trademarked way of naming the things the antis say will happen if a gun is seen.
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    Great idea

    As the title states, I believe it is a great idea. If a large number of people were open carrying, and going about their business in a normal way, this would "project" an image of normalcy. I've always wondered what would happen if an LEO, while illegally stopping an Open Carrier, saw 5 or 10 other open carriers walk by. I still stick by my earlier comments that it would also be good to informally invite a few LEO's to an open carry breakfast, lunch, dinner, picnic, etc.
    OCW, don't stop making good suggestions just because a few "at the top" think it's silly. While I admire Grapeshot, Nightmare, and Skidmark, sometimes they accuse others of shallow thinking, when in fact, it may be just the opposite.

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    LOL Somebody's marching to some other drummer!
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    LOL Somebody's marching to some other drummer!
    i always start on the wrong foot and have to catch up or confuse everyone else....eh

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 06-04-2015 at 11:58 AM.
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    Arrow Lots of replies

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't see the need for an "Open Carry Week." We seek to normalize the OC of holstered hand guns as we go about our everyday routines.
    Sure. I think it' be nice if we didn't need an Open Carry Week. It'd be wonderful if the Second Amendment stood on its own without the need for an NRA or websites like OpenCarry.org. But we as social creatures depend heavily on the opinions and actions of others. What I'm proposing is simply a stepping stone to open the public dialog and improve opinion and popularity of open carry.

    I am NOT proposing that we relegate open carry to just one week out of the year. If you already open carry daily, that's WONDERFUL, and I commend your courage... but for 300 million Americans who do not, and have never open carried, what I propose is a week where people "try something new". An Open Carry Week would create for them a confidence bubble and a call to expand their comfort zone. A week where society is more accepting of new ideas.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    OCW's screed is a compendium of shallow thinking characterized by projection of his prejudices onto others.
    Look at what Gay Pride Day did for public acceptance and eventual changes to legislation. It lead society to re-examine its comfort zone. I imagine a lot of detractors within the gay community thought that marketing their sexual orientation was belittling and unnecessary given the Constitution. I think those detractors may have been full of wishful thinking. Shallow thinking helps us know the enemy... the shallow society as a whole.

    I mean hell, I'm talking about gay rights to a bunch of gun people, without fear of scrutiny. Public perception is key.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Note that there is a lot of negativity in your post relating to drinking, family, parks, and connecting those to OC. {...} Oh and yes I definitely will open carry on the 4th of July.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I do not particularly associate Independence Day with drinking, as he characterized it. I will drink as I normally do, not to preclude my bearing arms either in parade or private.

    While it may not engender the best of perceptions in shallow thinkers, there is nothing particularly unsafe in air-shots as a brief repair to physics and probability will show. Air-shots are how fireworks are launched, how many are burned by their falling debris. Notice the recent absence of such reports from the lamestream media.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You want to expose folks to the fact that open carrying is not threatening but suggest that those who OC are too irresponsible to control their drinking or shooting their guns in the air.
    Marketing. Marketing. Marketing.

    Yes. It is entirely within your right to open carry on the 4th. Some of you might, but most of you will not. Ideally you should be able to, as what point is a gun if it doesn't serve to protect crowds of people. But again, we're getting into idealism and not reality of the thing.

    Airshots. I know they're tradition. But they do injure and kill people. https://www.google.com/search?q=4th+of+july+bullet+hits

    The last thing we want in a marketing campaign like Open Carry Week is to sully that new found public perception with a portrayal of "idiots who go around like wild Mexicans (country) or Arabs (countries) shooting their guns in the air whenever something amuses them." (An actual stereotype.) That's a marketing image we do not want to associate with.

    It's also illegal to drink in many/most states while carrying. Thus my comment about drinking.

    Again, the 4th of July is a family holiday, already filled with tension of packed crowds and noisy children and neurotic family pets. It's not the most ideal date to throw something like open carry onto popular society's already full plates. Baby steps.

    We don't want Channel 7 reporting about "These Open Carry people being irresponsible morons." We don't want to open the opportunity for irresponsible morons to compromise our campaign image on such a public holiday.

    That's why I propose July 5th. An uninterrupted week to Celebrate the Fruits of our Independence.

    Sorry if I'm not the most well-spoken on the subject. I hope you can still follow along with me.
    Last edited by Open Carry Week; 06-04-2015 at 01:45 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Sigh.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpro2a View Post
    As the title states, I believe it is a great idea. If a large number of people were open carrying, and going about their business in a normal way, this would "project" an image of normalcy. I've always wondered what would happen if an LEO, while illegally stopping an Open Carrier, saw 5 or 10 other open carriers walk by. I still stick by my earlier comments that it would also be good to informally invite a few LEO's to an open carry breakfast, lunch, dinner, picnic, etc.
    OCW, don't stop making good suggestions just because a few "at the top" think it's silly. While I admire Grapeshot, Nightmare, and Skidmark, sometimes they accuse others of shallow thinking, when in fact, it may be just the opposite.
    Thanks for the kind words, fjpro2a. That's exactly what I'm attempting to do here, is create a projection of normalcy. If there was at least 1 week where we could rally a discussion and a presence, and create a comfort bubble, it could be enough to silence detractors who are highly successful at intimidating gun owners from open carry.

    And yes, getting law enforcement on board seems like a natural fit to me too.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Le Sigh. [/Pepe LaPew voice]
    Fixed it for you.

    It's sad that folks these days have so much trouble differentiating between LACs and criminals. Those are not good ol' boy yahoos just having fun that OCW describes. They are criminals and need to be treated as such.

    I admit that there are times, when it is legal to do so, that I do not OC. But none of them are because I do not want to cause the horses to faint and the women to stampede. Besides, IMHO letting the public see my response to some harridan (of either sex) is much more instructive than any sort of organized educational/PR event. Your mileage obviously varies.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 06-04-2015 at 06:14 PM. Reason: can't keep my French genders straight. (And yes, there are several entendres in that.)
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot
    Le
    Sigh. [/Pepe LaPew voice]
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Fixed it for you.

    It's sad that folks these days have so much trouble differentiating between LACs and criminals. Those are not good ol' boy yahoos just having fun that OCW describes. They are criminals and need to be treated as such.

    I admit that there are times, when it is legal to do so, that I do not OC. But none of them are because I do not want to cause the horses to faint and the women to stampede. Besides, IMHO letting the public see my response to some harridan (of either sex) is much more instructive than any sort of organized educational/PR event. Your mileage obviously varies.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-04-2015 at 06:24 PM. Reason: fixed
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    What if I OC every day? Is that acceptable? Or should I just limit myself to a single week?

    Also, you should really read the Open Carry Argument.

    http://ingunowners.com/forums/carry-...-argument.html
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    Welcome to OC.org. If I may, I have some issues with some of the ways we OCiers are portrayed, like we are some kind of radical gun totin activists. Yes, I am an activist and proud of it. Now back to the weekly OC thing. I would love to see everyone who carries, OC, where legal. I dont want to make it just a week thing. I OC in the summer every time I go out of the house, wherever I go (where legal) I will have one on my hip. I see others OC once in a while which brings a BIG smile to my face. I will OC on the 4th. What better time to show Liberty? Now wherever you are, if you can get everybody you know to go OC for one week, then go for it, it would be great, after that week, maybe some of those folks would figure out that its not really a big deal after all, then they might decide to OC more often, which would be even better. The bottom line is, people are sheep. They dont want to do anything that is not "popular" but if more people would OC, then more and more people will start doing it, kind of a domino effect. There are pros and cons for both OC and CC, but, CC does not do one single thing to promote the 2A, not one.

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    I think an open carry week (in the right context) would be a fantastic idea. I mean, pot smokers have 4/20, the gays have a "come out of the closet" day if I am not mistaken, as well as a "bike to work" day in my state.

    Seems like although carrying a firearm is possibly the most important of human rights as of now, from a purely marketing/public recognition standpoint it could be a good thing if approached right.

    Perhaps a week that for those that have never worked up the nerve to open carry to be reassured that they would be PARTICIPATING ACTIVELY" in what is seen as a community - supported event may gain us quite a few open carriers.

    I sure know that there have been many more coming out of the closet, getting blazed, and opting to ride their bikes to work year round from my anecdotal view since I started hearing about this kind of idea applied to other things.

    Not disagreeing with people here- we certainly don't NEED an open carry week. But done right, it may not be a terrible idea imo.
    Last edited by J_dazzle23; 06-04-2015 at 09:44 PM.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    I do try to limit my carry exposure so I therefore only carry on those weekdays which end in "Y".

    ipse
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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    I do try to limit my carry exposure so I therefore only carry on those weekdays which end in "Y".

    ipse
    Hey now. Up your game. Carry on the weeknights too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't see the need for an "Open Carry Week."

    We seek to normalize the OC of holstered hand guns as we go about our everyday routines..
    It is rare that I am seen without a weapon. I OC every day, all day, all night. It is as normal for me as anything else in my life.

    Make it a normal act, not a special one. If you want to bring notice to the public, stage an event, a special event that highlights the normalcy of what we do.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    How about we stage multiple OC presentations, talks, lectures, gun shows and other participatory activities all in that same week... every major city.

    I still see people saying "we shouldn't be relegated to just one week." You obviously haven't read anything I've typed so far.

    I do see a number of people get the idea that a week of exposure is what gets people off their asses and into actively carrying year round. I'm glad some of you have caught on!

    Go ask your Lions Club and Eagles Club and Gun Club if they'd be interested in hosting some sort of firearms related activities during that week, in which people are encouraged to OC at said activity. It could even be anything so innocuous as a gun safety lecture, or Introduction to Firearms free public seminar at a rented conference room or church hall. Something of public service.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    We have OC breakfasts (weekly), dinners (monthly) and picnics (periodically). The public is invited to all.

    Some are major events - one was even carried on Night Line.

    We have our annual Lobby Day at and in the General Assembly Building. We have attended in mass at local city/county council meetings and other high visibility venues.

    While VCDL does not tell people how to carry, OC is definitely accepted and the norm for most at our membership meetings.

    Take a look at some of the pictures available at http://www.vcdl.org/

    Promoting OC 52 weeks, 365 days per year by example, by educating, by talking, with support literature - It is the RIGHT thing to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We have OC breakfasts (weekly), dinners (monthly) and picnics (periodically). The public is invited to all.

    {...}

    Promoting OC 52 weeks, 365 days per year by example, by educating, by talking, with support literature - It is the RIGHT thing to do.
    That's pretty neat Grapeshot, but, would you say in your opinion that "the majority" of participants at your weekly events ONLY OC at those events and nowhere else through the rest of the week?

    Would you say it's possible that MOST members use these events to sate their OC for the week and then lock their gun away until next week? Wouldn't weekly events like this be "enabling", in a negative way?

    What I propose with an Open Carry Week is an observance of National attention. Where people are slapped OUT of their routine and not put into one. A spectacle that targets more common folk and new "members" rather than catering to the old.

    How many new faces have you seen at the last 4 weekly meetings? If it's anything like our ham radio club, probably zero or 1?

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry Week View Post
    That's pretty neat Grapeshot, but, would you say in your opinion that "the majority" of participants at your weekly events ONLY OC at those events and nowhere else through the rest of the week?

    Would you say it's possible that MOST members use these events to sate their OC for the week and then lock their gun away until next week? Wouldn't weekly events like this be "enabling", in a negative way?

    What I propose with an Open Carry Week is an observance of National attention. Where people are slapped OUT of their routine and not put into one. A spectacle that targets more common folk and new "members" rather than catering to the old.

    How many new faces have you seen at the last 4 weekly meetings? If it's anything like our ham radio club, probably zero or 1?
    There are some folks that have to come home and put their gun on - not allowed at work. There are at least as many that OC every time they step out the door (and often even if they are not planning to go out).

    On a personal note (hopefully not TMI) I do not carry leaving the house only when I know that there is an absolute prohibition against carrying at my destination. And in those cases I return home ASAP to put on my holster and handgun. I may have to change to CC, or secure the handgun, for short stops, but wait for the weekly/monthly/annual events when most everybody is OCing? Not me.

    stay safe.
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  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry Week View Post
    That's pretty neat Grapeshot, but, would you say in your opinion that "the majority" of participants at your weekly events ONLY OC at those events and nowhere else through the rest of the week?

    Would you say it's possible that MOST members use these events to sate their OC for the week and then lock their gun away until next week? Wouldn't weekly events like this be "enabling", in a negative way?

    What I propose with an Open Carry Week is an observance of National attention. Where people are slapped OUT of their routine and not put into one. A spectacle that targets more common folk and new "members" rather than catering to the old.

    How many new faces have you seen at the last 4 weekly meetings? If it's anything like our ham radio club, probably zero or 1?
    I can say with personal knowledge that all who can OC 24/7 - a few are restricted by work. None lock their guns away until next week.

    You must understand that it is not about us. It is about those that see us and the great conversations we have with them. Self defense yes. Education, most definitely!

    Buffet line restaurants work well. One of my favorite places is Golden Corral - the exposure/advertisement is fantastic. While the staff from manager to servers know me/us well, there are hundreds of "new faces" seeing freedom in action each time I go there, whether alone or in a group.

    Take the ball and put together an Open Carry Week - would like to see how you do that. Coordinating with national organizations and getting their endorsement et al. Recognize that failure to accomplish your goal(s) will backfire on you.

    Meanwhile, we shall continue to do what we do best - being good ambassadors of OC, RKBA, and the 2nd Amendment.........52 weeks per year.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
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    To the OP. An open carry week is a brilliant idea. So many groups get their own month, we deserve at least a week.

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    Personally, I'm of the mindset that "open carry week" is all 52 weeks of the year. I carry to normalize my area and more to keep cooler in the summer.

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