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Thread: Denied CPL but was able to purchase firearm with a juvenile felony

  1. #1
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    Denied CPL but was able to purchase firearm with a juvenile felony

    I am new to the forum but have been a non-registered browser for some time now. I wanted to share my recent experience with you all. I live in Ottawa county, I am 29 years young. I purchased a firearm from Dunhams in December 2014 with out a hiccup (background check and all). I took a CPL class in February held by Skip Croyell (Great trainer!) and was awarded a certificate of completion. I applied for my permit the next day and filled out all the forms and did the fingerprinting. After 3 months of waiting I received a post card stating I had to meet with the gun board. My appointment was today. I was denied due to having a Juvenile Felony on my record when I was 13. I was never incarcerated nor was I handled by the adult corrections. I believe I was on probation and community service. I have never been incarcerated in my life. Maybe a few speeding tickets but that's it. Now knowing I have a Felony I am worried about owning my firearm. I want to contact an attorney about getting my charge expunged. I am also worried about any future checks now that may prohibit me from housing, banking, school etc. So with that said, Ottawa county is terrible in application process times, I may have to spend more money on future applications and fees, attorneys and what not. I just want to be able to protect my family and I and not have to worry about being denied from anywhere else I may apply to. If you huys can help with any information I would greatly appreciate it.

  2. #2
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    So you are saying you were convicted of a felony while you were a juvenile?

    Have you researched the court records to see what was actually done instead of by memory.

    Do you care to disclose what it was

    First off find out the what, how and why of your situation contact a good guns rights attorney and see what he says
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 06-04-2015 at 04:11 PM.
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  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO. I hope you stick around after dealing with your issue posted here.

    The beauty of the juvie court system is that you cannot be convicted of a felony. Takes a case transfer to adult court to win that prize.

    See page 17 for definitions: http://courts.mi.gov/education/mji/p.../sg-manual.pdf Juveniles get adjudicated, not sentenced.

    Also see http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/c...venile-law.htm

    Go back to the permit rules and see if there is anything about juvenile adjudications then consider appealing the gun board decision through whatever the MI channels are.

    If things are as you say the gun board has made an appealable error. It's a semantics game. While the crime you supposedly committed is defined as a felony, you were never "convicted" of the crime. I'll even bet that you were not even "found guilty" - where I come from the term used is "not innocent" which is a far cry from "guilty".

    You could contact MGO http://www.migunowners.org/ to see if they know of attorneys who are both versed in the subject and not all that expensive. (All attorneys are expensive when you consider the money you pay them could better be used paying for ammo or new guns or training or ....

    stay safe.
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    How long were you on probation? More than a year is likely considered a felony penalty, felony being a condition of penalty and not of crime.

    The definition that I was taught, certainly effective in that jurisdiction, is that liability for incarceration in excess of 365 days defines felony. That includes pre-trial intervention and all the alternative sentencing options that, if violated, will result in incarceration.

    Best wishes.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-04-2015 at 06:11 PM.
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  5. #5
    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Ah, Ottawa. The worst county in SW MI for people that want CPL's. They apparently call every single person that applies for one into the gun board. Seems to me they're trying to do an end run around the law. As Skid said, you cant be convicted of a felony as a juvie. You would think that the board would know this, as I think one of the members is part of the county prosecutors office.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    So you are saying you were convicted of a felony while you were a juvenile?

    Have you researched the court records to see what was actually done instead of by memory.

    Do you care to disclose what it was

    First off find out the what, how and why of your situation contact a good guns rights attorney and see what he says
    Apparently the system cannot find any police records or other documents other then a print out of the charges. The deputy clerk said they may be archived so it may take a while. I am hoping that they do find them otherwise I am screwed .

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjames7 View Post
    Apparently the system cannot find any police records or other documents other then a print out of the charges. The deputy clerk said they may be archived so it may take a while. I am hoping that they do find them otherwise I am screwed .
    Your original attorney may have copies. I am sure they keep their own archives. But it is not hard to do the math, you were obviously a juvenile at the time so I think an appeal is in order. Good luck!

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