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Thread: I think the Texas Forum welcome page is incorrect

  1. #1
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    I think the Texas Forum welcome page is incorrect

    The Welcome Page says, "Texas is not a traditional open carry state. They also do not allow open carry, or even printing, by those who have a concealed carry permit", but that is not a correct statement.

    The current Texas code defines a "concealed handgun" as "a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person".

    "Printing" caused by the wind against my shirt does not by any argument meet the definition of "openly discernible". If someone were to claim that they saw my handgun, I would respond by asking them what color it is (blue or silver or black or olive drab or desert tan), and what kind of grips does it have (plastic or wood or pearl), and whether it's a pistol or a revolver, etc., none of which they could answer because of course they didn't actually see even a glimpse of any gun at all.

    Not at all meaning to be an agitator with my very first post, it's just that I've been a Texas CHL holder since 1998 and I know the plain and simple verbiage of the law by heart - it's my responsibility to know the law, and that verbiage has never changed.

    If my gun prints on my shirt in the breeze it may give away the fact that I'm carrying something under my shirt, but no one can say they know what it is because they can't see what it is. I never worry about whether it's printing in the wind or not, because it doesn't matter one whit.

    Carry on, and hello!

  2. #2
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    Welcome.

    "Static" printing would make it possible for an ordinary passersby to detect but not see the gun. Like a belt holster under a tight t-shirt. (I just stretch out the tail of the tee when I put it on.)

    For a couple of years now, Texas law does not make transient printing or unintentional failure to conceal unlawful/illegal.

    I think it is matter of nuance. Carry on.

  3. #3
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    That changed.... It is intentionally displaying a handgun in plain view in a public place..... That ordinary observation stuff was removed. Printing is not a crime. Texas Law Shield discussed that at a seminar I went to.....

  4. #4
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    Good luck getting any of the state info pages around here fixed. We've been trying to fix Nevada's and several other states for several YEARS now. It's actually become quite sad.

    But please do not let that keep you out of this otherwise fantastic site. Opencarry.org is one of the best resources in the US for firearms laws in general, and carrying firearms especially, mostly because of the expertise and activism of its active members.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count View Post
    That changed.... It is intentionally displaying a handgun in plain view in a public place..... That ordinary observation stuff was removed. Printing is not a crime. Texas Law Shield discussed that at a seminar I went to.....
    Well that IS new to me. I am certain I read the old language more recently and wondered what really had changed... Thanks for the update. I can wear my skin-tight t-shirts again. On second thought, maybe I won't do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by TXDPS
    PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER
    .
    (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun
    on or about the license holder’s person under the authority of Subchapter H,
    Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain
    view of another person in a public place....

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count View Post
    That changed.... It is intentionally displaying a handgun in plain view in a public place..... That ordinary observation stuff was removed. Printing is not a crime. Texas Law Shield discussed that at a seminar I went to.....
    Nothing changed, and no "ordinary observation stuff" was removed ... the following is taken directly from current Texas Government Code:

    Sec. 411.171. DEFINITIONS.
    (3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

    And "Texas Law Shield" is a private corporation - it doesn't make, interpret or enforce any laws.

    Originally Posted by TXDPS
    PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER
    .
    (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun
    on or about the license holder’s person under the authority of Subchapter H,
    Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain
    view of another person in a public place....
    We're not talking about "intentionally displaying a handgun in plain view", we're talking about printing.

    Sorry for the profuse use of quotation marks, that's not usually how I roll.
    Last edited by oldjackbob; 06-05-2015 at 10:20 AM.

  7. #7
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    The only offense is when you intentionally display in plain view of another person in a public place..... Not meeting that definition of concealed is not an offense..... Printing is not an offense.....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count View Post
    The only offense is when you intentionally display in plain view of another person in a public place..... Not meeting that definition of concealed is not an offense..... Printing is not an offense.....
    I can live with that, thanks for clarifying.

  9. #9
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    To clarify, below is the text of SB 299 from the 83rd Legislature, as signed into law:
    (the strikethrough is noted with [s][/s] but it doesn't display correctly, sry.)
    Quote Originally Posted by 83rd Tx Leg SB299

    S.B. No. 299
    AN ACT
    relating to the intentional display of a handgun by a person
    licensed to carry a [s]concealed[/s] handgun.
    BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
    SECTION 1. Subsections (a) and (h), Section 46.035, Penal
    Code, are amended to read as follows:
    (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
    holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
    under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
    and intentionally displays [s]fails to conceal[/s] the handgun in plain
    view of another person in a public place.

    (h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that
    the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed
    the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been
    justified in the use of force or deadly force under Chapter 9.
    SECTION 2. The change in law made by this Act applies only to
    an offense committed on or after the effective date of this Act. An
    offense committed before the effective date of this Act is governed
    by the law in effect on the date the offense was committed, and the
    former law is continued in effect for that purpose. For purposes of
    this section, an offense was committed before the effective date of
    this Act if any element of the offense occurred before that date.
    SECTION 3. This Act takes effect September 1, 2013.
    Last edited by nonameisgood; 06-05-2015 at 12:23 PM.

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