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Thread: A Christian Science Monitor Article on OC

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    Regular Member Bill45's Avatar
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    A Christian Science Monitor Article on OC

    I found this article at the Christian Science Monitor site.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society...en-carry-video

    I post it here, as I found it relivant to the recent problems regarding what happened recently in Olympia.
    To resume our discussion regarding open carry of the "in your face" attitude VS a more polite and tactful manner.
    Last edited by Bill45; 06-08-2015 at 10:30 AM.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Some people are offended by Christianity. Does that mean people must always cover up their Bibles to preserve 'civility'?

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    "Wow", another thread that will turn into more Christian bashing, just what we need.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    saw the title and got the popcorn and Reds and sat down justa wait'g

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    LOL How can even the title of the messenger be tolerated, imagine, Christian and Scientist in the same phrase?
    Since you failed to use the "sarcastic font" I will simply point out that the Christian Science Monitor is a very credible news source.

    As for Christian and Scientist, no shortage of Scientists who are very devout Christians (or others of faith).

    Sadly, there is also no shortage of scientists who are as subject to the small minded bigotries one would hope might be absent in the well educated, thoughtful, and brilliant.

    To wit on both points, this excerpt from the Wiki article on Henry Eyring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    Henry Eyring (February 20, 1901 – December 26, 1981) was a Mexican-born American theoretical chemist whose primary contribution was in the study of chemical reaction rates and intermediates.

    A prolific writer, he authored more than 600 scientific articles, ten scientific books, and a few books on the subject of science and religion. He received the Wolf Prize in Chemistry in 1980 and the National Medal of Science in 1966 for developing the Absolute Rate Theory or Transition state theory of chemical reactions, one of the most important developments of 20th-century chemistry. Several other chemists later received the Nobel Prize for work based on it, and his failure to receive the Nobel was a matter of surprise to many.[1] The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences apparently did not understand Eyring's theory until it was too late to award him the Nobel; the academy awarded him the Berzelius Medal in 1977 as partial compensation.[2] Sterling M. McMurrin believed Eyring should have received the Nobel Prize but was not awarded it because of his religion.[3]

    Eyring was elected president of the American Chemical Society in 1963 and the Association for the Advancement of Science in 1965.

    ...

    Eyring was a member of the LDS Church throughout his life. His views of science and religion were captured in this quote: "Is there any conflict between science and religion? There is no conflict in the mind of God, but often there is conflict in the minds of men."[6] Eyring also feared overeager defenders of faith would discard new scientific findings because of apparent contradictions. He encouraged parents and teachers to distinguish between "what they know to be true and what they think may be true," to avoid clumping them together and "throwing the baby out with the bath."[7]:245–247

    As a member of the LDS Church, Eyring served as a branch president, district president, and, for over twenty years, a member of the general board of the Deseret Sunday School Union. His son Henry B. Eyring is currently an apostle and member of the First Presidency of [T]he [C]hurch [of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (or LDS / Mormon Church)]."
    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill45 View Post
    I found this article at the Christian Science Monitor site.
    Excepting perhaps the use of the word "arsenal" I found the article well written, and nicely balanced. Good solid reporting, just as I'd expect from that publication (which is, admittedly, not nearly as libertarian as many here).

    This topic has been debated a lot here and I don't intend to go through that all again.

    I will simply observe that one's goal in OCing is to increase public/social acceptance of RKBA and thus advance the statutory respect for RKBA, I believe that is best accomplished by pushing the envelope gradually.

    Charging past all social mores is likely not to be nearly as effective and might even lead to backlash.

    There may well be places where OCing a rifle is only slightly beyond social norms. But in urban/suburban Utah, 4 or 5 men choosing to do so did not help us in some related legislative efforts. What should have been a 1 or 2 year effort to get some protections against bogus charges of Disorderly Conduct (along with several other catch all laws) for OCers turned into a 4 or 5 year fight because each year shortly before our legislative session there was a case of someone OCing a rifle around a shopping mall or something similar. Of course, the anti-gun media played these up. We were finally able to get protections for OCers whose guns are holstered. We haven't yet been able to successfully address some of the other laws (disrupting a school activity) that some entities have threatened against lawful OCers.

    If someone is just going to do something because it is legal and he can, so be it. But he shouldn't pretend or claim that his conduct is advance RKBA if that conduct is not helping with social or legal advances.

    We used to see gun owners on here frequently quoting Heinlein on good manners and polite society. And I've never read anyone willing to disparage his words. But since I've pointed out that Heinlein's charge imposes at least as much obligation on those who carry guns as it does on those who don't, he has become a lot less popular it seems. It is easy to declare that others' feelings are not a mortgage on our rights. But Heinlein's words remind us that the total situation is a bit more complicated than that and that we do have some obligation to consider our manners.


    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
    --Robert A. Heinlein

    Charles

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    well with his son's church credentials i certainly see why his father got the write up...

    you have no critical thinking skills whatsoever do you piper...the church mentioned the son's LDS' achievements in his father's wiki write up...REALLY?

    you're too easy to respond to slights but your narcissistic mentality still felt the need and you had the gall to use it as a reference to prove a some misguided point?

    btw the popcorn is great...care for some

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 06-11-2015 at 04:44 PM.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    Christian Scientist are not Christian, nor scientists. The name is basically stolen, as they do not follow Christ.
    Last edited by cjohnson44546; 06-11-2015 at 04:44 PM.

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    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    You do not know of what you write.
    You must not know what Christianity is, if you think that's Christian.

    Please read this…

    https://carm.org/christian-science-religion-christian

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    If you can walk around like this then don't say anything about the AR slung over someone's back
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Oh my goodness what a claim. Cant be christian and a scientist? That one just boggles my mind.

    Just read The Invention of Air a book about a scientist, whom the founders (especially Jefferson) highly respected, Joseph Priestly the guy who discovered oxygen and founded the Unitarian church.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Its quite a great book, he probably would have surpassed his french counterpart if it wasn't for his stubborn refusal to let go of the phlogiston theory.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    You must not know what Christianity is, if you think that's Christian.
    By the standard of how well a group follows Christ's teachings, most Christian's aren't.

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    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    By the standard of how well a group follows Christ's teachings, most Christian's aren't.
    This is very true. There are many who claim to be Christians, but are not. Just calling yourself something, doesn't make it true.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    sorry cjohnson, you missed the easter religious discussion last month a while ago, thankfully it is closed...

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I will support to the death this guy's right to be an idiot!
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    sorry cjohnson, you missed the easter religious discussion last month a while ago, thankfully it is closed...

    ipse
    Thankfully???
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    I will support to the death this guy's right to be an idiot!
    When it comes to idiots, I always support their rights to the death--their death, not mine.

    Seriously, though, +1. Yeah. We gotta support everybody's rights. Where we don't, government can drive a wedge.
    Last edited by Citizen; 06-20-2015 at 07:33 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    I will support to the death this guy's right to be an idiot!
    So, any suggestion a good defense attorney might give to such a client other than the trite "Don't commit crimes"? [emoji12]
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    LOL How can even the title of the messenger be tolerated, imagine, Christian and Scientist in the same phrase?
    First, it's their name for their religious sect (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Christian_Science), second, this >> http://thebladeonline.org/wordpress/...give-up-faith/.
    Be active.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    I will support to the death this guy's right to be an idiot!
    All I could think, looking at that picture, was "What happens when he sneezes?"

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    As an Antitheist, I love these types of posts; the type where I can just sit back, and laugh at every single person who posts in defense of anything relating to religion, and science, in the same tagline. But seriously though, 'Christian Science', ha! that's a contradiction bigger than 'National Security Agency'. Religion is a dogmatic curse, and stain on mankind, built on the foundations of closed-minds, and bloodshed. Science is the freedom of our minds, built on a foundation of curiosity and open, free thought, without bounds or chains. Amusing article nonetheless, always amusing to see a Religious 'news' organization trying to come across as legit.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
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  23. #23
    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    You must not know what Christianity is, if you think that's Christian. .....
    I think most would agree that there are many groups and many individuals that wear the name and profess to be 'Christian' without following the God-Man.

    But isn't all of this, religion talk, atheism bloviating, and talk of long gun carry all against the rules here? I digress.
    Be active.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    As an Antitheist, I love these types of posts; the type where I can just sit back, and laugh at every single person who posts in defense of anything relating to religion, and science, in the same tagline. But seriously though, 'Christian Science', ha! that's a contradiction bigger than 'National Security Agency'. Religion is a dogmatic curse, and stain on mankind, built on the foundations of closed-minds, and bloodshed. Science is the freedom of our minds, built on a foundation of curiosity and open, free thought, without bounds or chains. Amusing article nonetheless, always amusing to see a Religious 'news' organization trying to come across as legit.
    You're certainly entitled to your beliefs, but your confidence in those beliefs is every bit as faith-based as the most logic-blind religious zealot.

    You have just as much objective proof as they do. You have enormous amounts of subjective proof that is perfectly convincing to you, just as they do. In the end, you rely on faith just as much as they do -- negative faith rather than positive, but still faith.

    As for bloody history -- who was the number one sponsor of scientific research around the time Galileo was trying to prove his hypotheses? Who had the best scientific laboratories 75 years ago? I bet you won't like the answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Well said.

    The demarcation boundary between science and non-science is falsifiability, after Karl Popper The Logic of Scientific Discovery. It's 800+ pages so proof from the semi-literate. 'Scientific Discovery' is the premise behind his masterwork, The Open Society and Its Enemies, particularly enemies, Plato, Hegel, Mark, socialists and tyrants.

    Science and religion require nearly identical statements of faith. A mind that is large enough to hold one ought to be able to hold both. Sola Fide. One can't get it until one gets it.
    Tell me more.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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