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Thread: Boulder OSMP "No Firearms"

  1. #1
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    Boulder OSMP "No Firearms"

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    So I went hiking at Chataqua and noticed these signs. It's RMGO notices them to on their website. I decided to send an email to Parks and Rec, the Mayor, and City Council about fixing this.

    I said the following:
    Hello,

    I have an inquiry about firearms in City of Boulder Open Space and Mountain Parks.

    The website rules and regulations read the following:

    Possession or discharge of a firearm (including paint ball guns) or projectile weapon (bows, crossbows, slingshots, etc.) including those powered by gas, is prohibited on OSMP.



    My plain text reading of this is that this is a blanket ban on the possession of firearms in OSMP. There are numerour "No firearms" signs across OSMP parks.

    I believe this is in violation of Colorado state law which reads the following:


    C.R.S. 18-12-214 (2014)

    18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions

    (1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.



    (b) A peace officer may temporarily disarm a permittee, incident to a lawful stop of the permittee. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the permittee prior to discharging the permittee from the scene.



    (2) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.



    (3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:



    (a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked;



    (b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district or charter school as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty;



    (c) A permittee may carry a concealed handgun on undeveloped real property owned by a school district that is used for hunting or other shooting sports.



    (4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:



    (a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;



    (b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and



    (c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.



    (5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.



    (6) The provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 18-12-209.





    OSMP meets none of the above categories and a blanket ban on firearms is a violation of state law. City Council should rectify this and meet it's obligations to protect the rights and safety of it's citizens.


    Sincerely,

    Redacted
    I got a reply from Parks and Rec to email OSMP but got a reply from city council that was to the point....

    Mr. Redacted,



    Thank you for your email. This is a complex area of Colorado law. Under the Colorado Constitution, home rule cities such as Boulder have an exclusive right to legislate over matters of local concern. The Colorado Supreme Court has never decided whether the regulation of firearms is a matter of statewide or local concern. There was one case involving Denver on which the court split 4 to 4. The attorney general ruled that this meant that the case had no precedential effect. The city of Boulder is unique in that it manages over 45,000 acres of open space. We take very seriously our community’s concerns regarding firearms in these areas. Accordingly, we have adopted and enforced our regulations. As a matter of policy, our rangers do not ticket individuals who carry firearms and possess a state permit.



    I hope that this is helpful.



    Tom Carr

    Boulder City Attorney
    So what I'm hearing is "I don't know how to read state law. We have banned all firearms and we just chose to ignore it if they have a permit, but it's still illegal."

    I've typed up a response with some follow up questions:
    Hello,

    Thank you for your helpful and quick reply. I have several follow up questions I would greatly appreciate for you to answer.

    Do rangers make a distinction between open and concealed carry with a concealed handgun permit(CHP)?

    Do rangers make a distinction between the carry of long guns and handguns?

    Do rangers acknowledge permits from other counties or states?

    You talked about home rule in the Colorado Constitution the Colorado constitution also reads:

    Article II, Section 13
    “The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.”

    Does the CHP create an affirmative defense to carrying a concealed handgun?

    Since one doesn't need government permission to exercise rights, is permit-less open carry of a handgun or other defense arm recognized in Boulder or Boulder OSMP?


    Sincerely,

    Redacted

  2. #2
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    Wow this thread got almost 200 views, but no responses yet. Unfortunately, my most recent message to the city attorney remains unanswered. It occured to me a case about local preemption has been heard in the Colorado Supreme Court:

    http://www.cobar.org/opinions/opinio...opinionid=8421

    CU Regents vs. Students for Conceal Carry

    another case of a stubborn local group resisting the CCA:

    In its legislative declaration, the General Assembly makes clear that the CCA is meant to be a statewide comprehensive scheme. The General Assembly found it “necessary that the state occupy the field of regulation of the bearing of concealed handguns.” § 18-12-201(1)(e). Further, the General Assembly found that the “permitting and carrying of concealed handguns is a matter of statewide concern,” and that therefore “[i]t is necessary to provide statewide uniform standards.” § 18-12-201(2)(a)-(b).

    ¶22 Our conclusion is not changed by the fact that “local governments” are expressly prohibited from “adopt[ing] or enforc[ing] an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of [the CCA].” § 18-12-214(1)(a). Although the Board is not typically considered a “local government,” see§ 24-32-102, C.R.S. (2011) (defining a “local government” as “all municipal corporations, quasi municipalities, counties, and local improvement and service districts of this state”), the CCA is clear that a permittee is authorized to carry a concealed handgun in “all areas of the state, except as specifically limited” by the statute, § 18-12-214(1)(a) (emphasis added). As explained above, the University of Colorado campuses are not included in those “specifically limited” areas. The fact that “local governments” are expressly prohibited from adopting provisions that conflict with the CCA does not take away from the fact that a permittee is authorized to carry a concealed handgun in “all areas of the state, except as specifically limited” by the statute. Instead, the prohibition on local governments merely reinforces the scope of the “all areas of the state” provision. To put it differently, even if the Board of Regents is not considered a “local government,” the Policy would still conflict with the CCA’s clear command that a permittee is authorized to carry a concealed handgun in “all areas of the state, except as specifically limited” by the statute.


    I know this is all about the CCA, but since the Boulder OSMP rules make do distinction between OC and CC, and all states that firearms are banned, and since the law and Supreme Court of Colorado clearly states that they don't have that ability, and the CCA makes no requirement to actually conceal the weapon open carry must be permissible on the OSMP of Boulder.

    However the big question is who wants to try after this?

    http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-c...tauqua-boulder

    The man will be charged with a city parks violation for having a firearm on the trail, but he will not face any criminal charges. After officers took him into custody, he was transported to a hospital "to get the help that he needs," Zierlein said.

  3. #3
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    Boulder is pretty well known for doing what they want regardless of legality. They're still steadfastly refusing to reopen Rollins Pass despite legislation requiring them to do so.

  4. #4
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    29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting

    A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.

  5. #5
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    Unfortunately I'd agree with you, if the signs said "No Open Carry of Firearms", the sign however read "No Firearms". Also the comment of "specific area", the Boulder OSMP covers "45,000 acres" and not all access points have formal signage, and have virtually no security personnel to enforce park codes. Stack that with the fact that the Boulder OSMP is 70.3 sq mi, and the city of Boulder is only 25.6 sq mi, it doesn't constitute a "specific area" but rather a de-facto ban on all firearms on public land in the City and County.

  6. #6
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    As a matter of policy, our rangers do not ticket individuals who carry firearms and possess a state permit.
    Sounds like CC is ok. I don't think they consider OC the same since it doesn't follow the revenue trail that CC does.

    Either way it's pretty frustrating. I had similar correspondence with city of Lafayette with their whole posting signs in "specified areas." We should go as a group and test it out.

    I would liked to know if this guys charges were dropped since nobody was threatened and in the end game is a big, scary looking...........pellet gun.

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