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Thread: Self Defense Insurance/Legal Services

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    Self Defense Insurance/Legal Services

    I am new to the forum and suspect this subject has been covered in detail in the past. I have been researching this subject for several months now and have not come to any reasonable conclusion to what programs out there are thei best to spend my money on. Anyone have any suggestions ?

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    Doc as in MD? Sure, do a cost benefit analysis, with arguments of the cost, the benefit and the likelihood of its pay-off, the same as your malpractice insurance.

    Tomorrow my best friend bicyclist and team doctor for World Sports around the world bike tour arrives for a long weekend and to try out his new hip.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    [ ... ] .... crickets.
    +1 Follow the money. P4P Pay for Peace of mind. Pay for Protection.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    It is their business doing pleasure with you......they get to keep your money too.

    Fire insurance - pays if you have a fire.

    Auto insurance (no fault) - pays if you have an accident.

    Gun/use of force insurance - pays something (usually initial contact) IF you did not break any laws and normally after the fact = reimbursement. Read the fine print.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-12-2015 at 01:31 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Self Defense Insurance/Legal Services

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Find one of the self-defense insurance companies that will tell you exactly how much they have paid in claims and to how many people. Also read the "testimonials" carefully. What you will find is that none of these insurance companies will tell you how much they have paid on how many claims, because they don't want you to see how little they actually have paid compared to the premiums collected. The "testimonials" will all be of the same flavor, "I have such peace of mind that I have insurance!" Ok, well, glad you have peace of mind....how about a testimonial of someone that has actually filed a multi-thousand $$$ claim? .... crickets.
    I can't find a company that will tell me their claims history and I won't. What I am seeking is if there are any folks in this forum that have self defense insurance/legal services they are happy? And, if they are happy with it why?

    Velodoc

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    Self Defense Insurance/Legal Services

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It is their business doing pleasure with you......they get to keep your money too.

    Fire insurance - pays if you have a fire.

    Auto insurance (no fault) - pays if you have an accident.

    Gun/use of force insurance - pays something (usually initial contact) IF you did not break any laws and normally after the fact = reimbursement. Read the fine print.
    Grapeshot,
    What I am really seeking is if there are any folks in this forum who have self defense insurance/legal services they are happy with. And, if they are happy with it, why?

    Velodoc

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodoc View Post
    Grapeshot,
    What I am really seeking is if there are any folks in this forum who have self defense insurance/legal services they are happy with. And, if they are happy with it, why?

    Velodoc
    I understand the quest. I know of no one that has found satisfactory prepaid self-defense insurance...on this forum or elewhere.

    My go to guy for such advice is Dan Hawes (screen name User on OCDO).
    http://www.vagunlawyer.com/who-is-dan-hawes.html

    I will see if he can be persuaded to comment on the matter.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I understand the quest. I know of no one that has found satisfactory prepaid self-defense insurance...on this forum or elewhere.

    My go to guy for such advice is Dan Hawes (screen name User on OCDO).
    http://www.vagunlawyer.com/who-is-dan-hawes.html

    I will see if he can be persuaded to comment on the matter.
    Thanks Grapeshot, most appreciative!

  9. #9
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    Self Defense Insurance/Legal Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I understand the quest. I know of no one that has found satisfactory prepaid self-defense insurance...on this forum or elewhere.

    My go to guy for such advice is Dan Hawes (screen name User on OCDO).
    http://www.vagunlawyer.com/who-is-dan-hawes.html

    I will see if he can be persuaded to comment on the matter.
    Thanks Grapeshot, most appreciatIve!

    Velodoc

  10. #10
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Texas Law Shield and Self Defense Fund have both been recommended to Texas residents by various OC advocates in Texas. Both have testimonials (of actual cases, not just "I feel better knowing" crap) on their websites.

    My understanding is that Texas Law Shield is part of US Law Shield and so residents of other states might be able to become a member (of US Law Shield or their state component thereof?). However, even though I can be covered in all 50 states, they apparently don't offer membership to residents of all 50 states. It looks like you can sign up if you live in Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Missouri, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Texas, or Virginia.

    Looks like you can sign up with Self Defense Fund no matter where you live.

    AFAIK neither of these are "insurance" products, but I'm not as familiar with SDF. I would elaborate but I don't want to say something that is technically incorrect. I'm not really going to recommend either, but I recommend you peruse both websites and give each adequate consideration.

    https://selfdefensefund.com/
    https://selfdefensefund.com/past-successful-cases/
    https://selfdefensefund.com/terms-an...of-membership/

    http://www.uslawshield.com/
    http://www.uslawshield.com/testimonials/
    http://www.uslawshield.com/protectio...rearms-owners/ click Legalese

    Hope this is helpful...
    Advocate freedom please

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    I've been designated by two such entities to represent people in Virginia who are members in case of serious legal problems. Those are the only ones I really know anything about and it's been a while since I read up on what they're doing. But the last time I checked, the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network is basically an educationally-oriented nonprofit which has a funded foundation that will pay immediately to your attorney if they think your case is legit. The amount they pay probably won't cover your total fees if you've actually fired a gun and hurt someone, but will be enough to get a lawyer cranked up and talking to you. The big bonus with them, as I see it, is the educational emphasis: they put out a bunch of DVD's and have an online web-forum for members and publish new information all the time. Although a lot of the defensive carry information you get from people other than myself will be sort of generic, and some of it won't apply in Virgina, theirs is generally good stuff. And they gave me a nifty hat for signing up as their attorney in Virginia. The other one is the United States Concealed Carry Association. Like their name says, they emphasize concealed carry, and don't directly fund legal defense. They have a contract with an insurer who will either pay for or provide legal services (through an independent attorney of their choice) in civil and criminal cases using different payout rules for each. In civil cases their first option will be to hire their own attorney (sort of like getting court-appointed counsel, in my estimation), but may, instead, pay for yours (probably at a negotiated reduced rate). In criminal cases you have to fund the litigation yourself and if the case ends other than with a conviction, then they'll reimburse you.

    The big difference for someone who needs legal defense is that the former provides an immediate but limited payout and the latter provides reimbursement but potentially covering your legal expenses.

    Of the two, I'd go with the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network. But both appear to be reputable. Membership cost for each is fairly cheap, I think, and there's no rule that says you can't do both. There are links to each on my website (scroll down to the banners).

    I always tell people to put about six thousand in ready cash somewhere so you or someone you trust in an emergency can put their hands on it. That's a good thing, not just because of legal defense needs, but sudden medical costs, computer disasters, etc. My wife calls it a "rainy day fund". You ought to have one, even if it means putting just ten dollars away with every paycheck. But six thousand bucks will get you a good lawyer, at least initially, if you're sued or charged with a felony, and will more than cover the cost of most misdemeanor charges.

    By the way, there is one entity that started out by blatantly copying me, my style, and my website and offering low-ball "retainers" to cover the risk of a need for legal services in defensive situations. They've gotten a lot better since that time about distinguishing themselves from me (I had to send them a "cease and desist" letter), but it is my opinion that what they're doing is illegal. First off, what they're really doing is an unregistered insurance program that does not appear to be funded by any underwriter, and secondly, what they're calling a "retainer" is really an insurance premium. A true retainer is an amount of money you pay merely to say that so-and-so is your attorney, paid and earned on a periodic basis; it is not a payment for services, nor does it get you legal services during that period. It is possible, I don't know for sure, that what they're doing is charging a true retainer and then telling people their case doesn't merit free legal services so they have to pay up anyway. But that's the only way what they're calling a "true retainer" could actually be a retainer.

    Another thing to watch out for regarding legal services is people who advertise in phone books and on the internet, with two columns of various practice areas with about thirty items in each column. Someone who does wills and divorces, or even general criminal defense, generally does not understand personal defense law. These are people who specialize in WCITD, pronounced, "weck-it-tid", an acronym that means, "whatever comes in the door". The other group to watch out for are the "plea-bargain factories". They'll charge a fixed fee for criminal defense at a rate lower than what, for example, I would charge, because a lot of people are shopping for the lowest cost. But these guys routinely treat the client as guilty, never actually prepare for trial, never seriously consider what defenses the client may have, do not interview potential witnesses, and will come to court often meeting the client for the first time on the day of trial. They go to the prosecutor and see what "offer" the prosecutor will make, then go back and twist the client's arm telling the client why he has to take the deal or face a long jail term.

    A good lawyer will always treat going to trial and trying to win as the first and best option. Plea bargains are for damage control only, where the client really is guilty of whatever the charge is, and just needs to have some certainty about keeping the punishment as bearable as possible. But doing a plea bargain is about two hours' work, so the plea bargain factories are making money hand-over-fist. Going to trial is expensive, because it's real work and takes time. But it's the only option if you don't want to be found guilty of a crime you didn't commit, want to preserve your right to an appeal, and on appeal (assuming the case started out in a non-jury district court) to preserve your right to a jury. Also, after you've pleaded guilty, you no longer have a right to refuse to answer questions - the Fifth Amendment right doesn't apply when you've waived it by pleading guilty.

    One way to find a good lawyer is to talk to people who work for the Sheriff's Office as courtroom bailiffs. They see it all and hear it all, and after a while, they get so they know who's good and who isn't. And keep in mind that lawyers, like humans, generally, fall into three groups: some are really good, some are really bad, and most are average. If you were involved in a car accident at two a.m., would you want an "average" surgeon working on you? The time to prepare and find a good lawyer is now. How you pay for it will be another thing all together. Sign up for those programs if you like, and figure out which friends and relatives will come to the plate for you when you're in trouble. But do it now.
    Last edited by user; 06-13-2015 at 08:59 AM. Reason: I have to write in chunks so that I don't get kicked off by the timer.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    User, thanks for taking the time to succinctly address and provide guidance to viable entities who provide these type of legal services.

    it is appreciated by this tarheel resident.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    I've been designated by two such entities to represent people in Virginia who are members in case of serious legal problems. Those are the only ones I really know anything about and it's been a while since I read up on what they're doing. But the last time I checked, the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network is basically an educationally-oriented nonprofit which has a funded foundation that will pay immediately to your attorney if they think your case is legit. The amount they pay probably won't cover your total fees if you've actually fired a gun and hurt someone, but will be enough to get a lawyer cranked up and talking to you. The big bonus with them, as I see it, is the educational emphasis: they put out a bunch of DVD's and have an online web-forum for members and publish new information all the time. Although a lot of the defensive carry information you get from people other than myself will be sort of generic, and some of it won't apply in Virgina, theirs is generally good stuff. And they gave me a nifty hat for signing up as their attorney in Virginia. The other one is the United States Concealed Carry Association. Like their name says, they emphasize concealed carry, and don't directly fund legal defense. They have a contract with an insurer who will either pay for or provide legal services (through an independent attorney of their choice) in civil and criminal cases using different payout rules for each. In civil cases their first option will be to hire their own attorney (sort of like getting court-appointed counsel, in my estimation), but may, instead, pay for yours (probably at a negotiated reduced rate). In criminal cases you have to fund the litigation yourself and if the case ends other than with a conviction, then they'll reimburse you.

    The big difference for someone who needs legal defense is that the former provides an immediate but limited payout and the latter provides reimbursement but potentially covering your legal expenses.

    Of the two, I'd go with the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network. But both appear to be reputable. Membership cost for each is fairly cheap, I think, and there's no rule that says you can't do both. There are links to each on my website (scroll down to the banners).

    I always tell people to put about six thousand in ready cash somewhere so you or someone you trust in an emergency can put their hands on it. That's a good thing, not just because of legal defense needs, but sudden medical costs, computer disasters, etc. My wife calls it a "rainy day fund". You ought to have one, even if it means putting just ten dollars away with every paycheck. But six thousand bucks will get you a good lawyer, at least initially, if you're sued or charged with a felony, and will more than cover the cost of most misdemeanor charges.

    By the way, there is one entity that started out by blatantly copying me, my style, and my website and offering low-ball "retainers" to cover the risk of a need for legal services in defensive situations. They've gotten a lot better since that time about distinguishing themselves from me (I had to send them a "cease and desist" letter), but it is my opinion that what they're doing is illegal. First off, what they're really doing is an unregistered insurance program that does not appear to be funded by any underwriter, and secondly, what they're calling a "retainer" is really an insurance premium. A true retainer is an amount of money you pay merely to say that so-and-so is your attorney, paid and earned on a periodic basis; it is not a payment for services, nor does it get you legal services during that period. It is possible, I don't know for sure, that what they're doing is charging a true retainer and then telling people their case doesn't merit free legal services so they have to pay up anyway. But that's the only way what they're calling a "true retainer" could actually be a retainer.

    Another thing to watch out for regarding legal services is people who advertise in phone books and on the internet, with two columns of various practice areas with about thirty items in each column. Someone who does wills and divorces, or even general criminal defense, generally does not understand personal defense law. These are people who specialize in WCITD, pronounced, "weck-it-tid", an acronym that means, "whatever comes in the door". The other group to watch out for are the "plea-bargain factories". They'll charge a fixed fee for criminal defense at a rate lower than what, for example, I would charge, because a lot of people are shopping for the lowest cost. But these guys routinely treat the client as guilty, never actually prepare for trial, never seriously consider what defenses the client may have, do not interview potential witnesses, and will come to court often meeting the client for the first time on the day of trial. They go to the prosecutor and see what "offer" the prosecutor will make, then go back and twist the client's arm telling the client why he has to take the deal or face a long jail term.

    A good lawyer will always treat going to trial and trying to win as the first and best option. Plea bargains are for damage control only, where the client really is guilty of whatever the charge is, and just needs to have some certainty about keeping the punishment as bearable as possible. But doing a plea bargain is about two hours' work, so the plea bargain factories are making money hand-over-fist. Going to trial is expensive, because it's real work and takes time. But it's the only option if you don't want to be found guilty of a crime you didn't commit, want to preserve your right to an appeal, and on appeal (assuming the case started out in a non-jury district court) to preserve your right to a jury. Also, after you've pleaded guilty, you no longer have a right to refuse to answer questions - the Fifth Amendment right doesn't apply when you've waived it by pleading guilty.

    One way to find a good lawyer is to talk to people who work for the Sheriff's Office as courtroom bailiffs. They see it all and hear it all, and after a while, they get so they know who's good and who isn't. And keep in mind that lawyers, like humans, generally, fall into three groups: some are really good, some are really bad, and most are average. If you were involved in a car accident at two a.m., would you want an "average" surgeon working on you? The time to prepare and find a good lawyer is now. How you pay for it will be another thing all together. Sign up for those programs if you like, and figure out which friends and relatives will come to the plate for you when you're in trouble. But do it now.
    User: Thanks so much for the data, very insightful! When it comes to a self defense lawyer, I am not interested in the bad or the average. I want the reLly good. Therefore, does your practice extended to the Yorktown area in Virginia?

    Velodoc

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    LOL The med school class anchor man is still Doctor of Medicine. And the triple jump at the Bar is still Esquire.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Of course if I am selling a bridge, I will certainly tell you why my bridge is better than the guy's bridge next door. And, who knows, my bridge might even be better...or it might not be. And if the guy's bridge next door looks like mine then of course he had to copy mine. And if all that I sell are bridges, then I must be more of an expert on bridges than the guy who also sells both bridges and the cars that drive on them (or has someone working for him whose specialty is selling cars).

    Just because something sounds great in an infomercial does not mean the person's money is wisely parted with in purchasing it.
    seen first hand Washington's rusty, steel peeling bridges...eh,

    think i'll bid on the one in LHC AZ...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodoc View Post
    User: Thanks so much for the data, very insightful! When it comes to a self defense lawyer, I am not interested in the bad or the average. I want the reLly good. Therefore, does your practice extended to the Yorktown area in Virginia?

    Velodoc
    User has represented members of OCDO in Surry and other locales throughout Virginia. You're not off the reservation.

    If you'd like to meet him, watch our Richmond dinner threads - 2nd Tuesday of the month - he is an occasional attendee.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Not that he's looking for an endorsement, or by this time needs one (earned reputation stands on its own) but I can attest to the effort and skill user puts into a case. Especially a case that was being prosecuted for contempt of cop as opposed to anything even looking like a violation of criminal law. He want after a prosecutor with no case with a ferocity that was awe-inspiring not just to the spectators but to his fellow guild members who saw him in action.

    But beyond that he provides moral/emotional support to his clients at a time when they probably need it most. Nobody likes contemplating their entire life going down the tubes, but being reminded that the goal is not to prove you are as innocent as the driven snow but merely not guilty makes it easier to weather the legal process. And while doing that he keeps his clients informed of what is happening and how he plans to respond to events as they occur and change.

    I put my life in his hands and he gave it back to me. Maybe a little bit scratched but nothing that could not be classed as "normal" wear and tear.

    Any "insurance" plan being considered ought to have at least as good a testimonial because you are rolling the dice on who/what you get for representation.

    stay safe.
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    Self Defense/Legal Services

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    User has represented members of OCDO in Surry and other locales throughout Virginia. You're not off the reservation.

    If you'd like to meet him, watch our Richmond dinner threads - 2nd Tuesday of the month - he is an occasional attendee.


    Thanks Grapeshot, will do!
    Velodoc

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Not that he's looking for an endorsement, or by this time needs one (earned reputation stands on its own) but I can attest to the effort and skill user puts into a case. Especially a case that was being prosecuted for contempt of cop as opposed to anything even looking like a violation of criminal law. He want after a prosecutor with no case with a ferocity that was awe-inspiring not just to the spectators but to his fellow guild members who saw him in action.

    But beyond that he provides moral/emotional support to his clients at a time when they probably need it most. Nobody likes contemplating their entire life going down the tubes, but being reminded that the goal is not to prove you are as innocent as the driven snow but merely not guilty makes it easier to weather the legal process. And while doing that he keeps his clients informed of what is happening and how he plans to respond to events as they occur and change.

    I put my life in his hands and he gave it back to me. Maybe a little bit scratched but nothing that could not be classed as "normal" wear and tear.

    Any "insurance" plan being considered ought to have at least as good a testimonial because you are rolling the dice on who/what you get for representation.

    stay safe.
    Thanks Skidmark, appreciate your insight!

    Velodoc

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodoc View Post
    User: Thanks so much for the data, very insightful! When it comes to a self defense lawyer, I am not interested in the bad or the average. I want the reLly good. Therefore, does your practice extended to the Yorktown area in Virginia?

    Velodoc
    Well, I tell people I practice all over Virginia, and that's true, but to handle a case in the Greater Hampton Roads Metropolitan Region and Salt Marsh, I'd have to stay overnight at a hotel and drive a lot for every hearing (I'm in the Northern Piedmond). That all jacks up the price for stuff that doesn't actually contribute to legal success. I generally refer stuff down that-a-way to Va. Beach attorney Robert Herron - 757 333 7529. I know he's good. I don't know anyone else down there in the Great Swamp whom I"d recommend - not that there aren't any, I just don't know them.

    Robert W. Herron III, Esq.
    One Columbus Center
    Suite 600
    Va. Beach, VA 23462

    www.robertherronlaw.com
    Last edited by user; 06-14-2015 at 07:55 AM.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Well, I tell people I practice all over Virginia, and that's true, but to handle a case in the Greater Hampton Roads Metropolitan Region and Salt Marsh, I'd have to stay overnight at a hotel and drive a lot for every hearing (I'm in the Northern Piedmond). That all jacks up the price for stuff that doesn't actually contribute to legal success. I generally refer stuff down that-a-way to Va. Beach attorney Robert Herron - 757 333 7529. I know he's good. I don't know anyone else down there in the Great Swamp whom I"d recommend - not that there aren't any, I just don't know them.

    Robert W. Herron III, Esq.
    One Columbus Center
    Suite 600
    Va. Beach, VA 23462

    www.robertherronlaw.com
    Thanks again User, I am most appreciative!!

    Velodoc

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Well, I tell people I practice all over Virginia, and that's true, but to handle a case in the Greater Hampton Roads Metropolitan Region and Salt Marsh, I'd have to stay overnight at a hotel and drive a lot for every hearing (I'm in the Northern Piedmond). That all jacks up the price for stuff that doesn't actually contribute to legal success. I generally refer stuff down that-a-way to Va. Beach attorney Robert Herron - 757 333 7529. I know he's good. I don't know anyone else down there in the Great Swamp whom I"d recommend - not that there aren't any, I just don't know them.

    Robert W. Herron III, Esq.
    One Columbus Center
    Suite 600
    Va. Beach, VA 23462

    www.robertherronlaw.com

    Dan, I'm much obliged for the endorsement.


    Similar to Dan, my practice extends across the Commonwealth. As much as possible, I try not to charge additional for the costs of traveling. That being said, sometimes the distance is too great. (More important than the distance is the time that is lost during the traveling.) Whenever I have to charge higher fees (or anticipated costs) due to the distance, I disclose the difference up front. At that point, it is up to the client whether they are willing to accept the increased costs.

    With regard to the pre-paid legal defense insurance-type plans, it is my opinion that most of them are not worth the cost. To be fair, I have not done any in-depth research; only cursory reviews of a few "plans." However, almost any way you look at it, the cost/benefit doesn't pan out. In addition to the coverage limitations that have already been mentioned, it is important to consider the likelihood of needing the coverage. Unlike auto insurance or home owner's insurance, the likelihood of needing self-defense legal insurance is ridiculously low. First, you have to look at the likelihood of being involved in a self-defense encounter. For most people in most walks of life, this is, by itself, very low. Second, you have to look at the likelihood of being involved in a self-defense encounter that results in you (the defender) being charged with a criminal offense. This is a very small subset of an already very small group. Plain and simple: most people will never need any coverage under any of these self-defense plans.

    If your individual circumstances dictate otherwise, so be it. I think most people would be better off taking the monthly premium and depositing it straight to a savings account.

    (Note: there are other comprehensive legal insurance plans that are not restricted to self-defense / gun owner's issues. Some of these comprehensive legal plans are surprisingly beneficial and offer very impressive coverage options for a wide variety of legal services. My comments above are directed specifically to the legal insurance plans that are marketed exclusively to self-defense / gun owner.)

    As for what to do after a self-defense encounter, this is a short version of what I recommend to students when I guest-speak for concealed handgun classes... [This is only my personal preference and opinion. You must decide for yourself how you wish to handle a similar situation.] ... The first priority is safety and security. The second and third priorities are co-equal: 2) politely decline to speak with law enforcement, and 3) contact an attorney. Make sure a close friend or family member has your attorney's phone number on hand. (If you are taken into custody, your cell phone is useless!) Your friend or family member should be able to facilitate an initial payment to an attorney to get the ball rolling.

    For my office (as with most), the initial consultation after a self-defense encounter is always free. If you need to call after-hours, you must leave a voicemail! The voicemail will eventually be routed through to my email. Make certain to leave your contact information, as well as a close friend or family member's information! I may not receive the voicemail immediately, but I will return the call as soon as I can. (I once returned a self-defense voicemail from my deer stand in the middle of the late archery season. I would prefer not to interrupt a deer hunt, but I will return the phone call as soon as I can.)

    For all self-defense issues, more than anything else, be prepared. In the same way that you should be proficient with your weapon(s), you should be equally prepared in your knowledge and understanding of the laws of self-defense. And you should be equally prepared, mentally, to assert your right to remain silent, despite the copious amounts of adrenaline coursing through your veins and the overwhelming urge to tell the world your side of the story.

    Even if you are able to find your front sight in the confusion of the fight, the second part of the ordeal is still very important.


    Unfortunately necessary disclaimer: this is for general information purposes only and should not be considered as specific legal advice. If you need legal advice, you should speak with an attorney who can evaluate your specific situation and offer an appropriate analysis that is tailored to your best interests.
    An attorney. Not your attorney.

    www.robertherronlaw.com

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    A friend told me about an ad he'd heard on a radio program for "www.firearmslegal.com"; I took a look at the website and found I couldn't tell whether they were offering prepaid legal services or insurance, nor was there any information that told me who they really were. In further research, I discovered that the entity behind it is "Risk Theory, LLC", an insurance underwriter in Dallas Tx. They are not licensed to sell insurance in Va., and have not registered as a foreign company (i.e., "out of state") in Virginia, so they cannot legally operate in Virginia, and any contract anyone signs with them would probably be unenforceable.

    I've also done a good bit of research on United Self Defense Law, PLLC, formerly VSDLAW, PLLC, which purports to be selling prepaid legal services according to a "retainer" plan. There are a couple of problems with what they're doing. First, what they're calling a "retainer" is not a retainer at all. A "retainer" is a periodic payment merely to secure an attorney as "your" attorney - it doesn't pay for services and is earned as soon as it is paid. The big advantage to that arrangement is that other people with interests adverse to yours can't hire your attorney because of the conflict of interest. But what Cuccinelli and company are advertising is really a premium paid against the contingency or risk that the customer will require legal services, which they then supply (if they decide to do so). So they're either selling insurance or a "qualified prepaid legal services plan", and I can't tell which it is, but it is not a "retainer" plan. And they haven't registered with the appropriate authorites for that kind of business, either, which ever it is.

    There are links to the only two plans I've found that I thought were worth anything at all on my website, United State Concealed Carry Association and Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Fund. Of the two, I prefer the latter, though the amount they'll pay is limited and subject to their determination that the client's actions were defensible, but they provide a pretty good educational curriculum on DVD's to members, newsletters, blog, etc.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  24. #24
    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Velodoc View Post
    I am new to the forum and suspect this subject has been covered in detail in the past. I have been researching this subject for several months now and have not come to any reasonable conclusion to what programs out there are thei best to spend my money on. Anyone have any suggestions ?
    The recent issue of RECOIL magazine had an extensive article on this. I believe the author is attorney who has a couple of policies. The Armed Citizen company mentioned in the previous post is one of them. They apparently pay you money up front, vice reimbursement, for your attorney compared to other companies. The NRA also offers insurance.
    Mack The Knife sends.

    "Laech cach fer co bas" (Gaelic- "Everyman a warrior until death")
    "Bas no beatha" (McLean war cry- "Death or life")

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheKnife View Post
    The recent issue of RECOIL magazine had an extensive article on this. I believe the author is attorney who has a couple of policies. The Armed Citizen company mentioned in the previous post is one of them. They apparently pay you money up front, vice reimbursement, for your attorney compared to other companies. The NRA also offers insurance.
    This the page? for the recoil mag article?
    http://www.recoilweb.com/preview-the...nse-69223.html

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