4-H shooting camp today

Wife dropped off our oldest boy today at 4-H shooting camp at Wakefield 4-H Camp. Ages 9-17. Does anyone here know about or help out at this camp? They have in-line muzzleloaders, shotgun, rifles, and archery, as well as a combination of all. I never could get that place to start an Appleseed Program there. Anyone with prior experience at this camp? I hear they have another at Appomattox later in the summer.

2 of my kids have attended the Appomattox camp for the past 5 yrs, never an issue so far.
They only offer 22 rifle and archery at the camp my kids attend.

I am the 4H shooting sports coordinator for my county. All my volunteers work hard at instructing the youth that come to these type of events in safe fun and proper manner.

I would expect that at the camp you mentioned the same well be happening.

Right now we are in the middle of a 6 week summer biathlon program, the kids are having a great time and have improve their shooting skills.

Take your kids there and let them enjoy them selves.

As far as an Appleseed Program its not a 4H program as with many organizations the not made here can be a problem.

Still willing......

More than happy to get an Appleseed going there. It gets discussed then nothing happens. It would be a good location for us. There is a lot of cross-pollination between 4-H and Appleseed on the national level and many of the instructors do both.

The Wolfhound said:

More than happy to get an Appleseed going there. It gets discussed then nothing happens. It would be a good location for us. There is a lot of cross-pollination between 4-H and Appleseed on the national level and many of the instructors do both.

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I hear you brother. Everything you said is right on. As you know, there is no willingness on the part of the PTB at the Wakefield 4-H center to work with Appleseed, and none of us knows why. This is in Sussex County, Virginia. Can anyone at OCDO here help us get this project out of the quicksand?! The range is there, and IIRC they would only do it if AS agreed to pay some ungodly fee structure, unlike any other Virginia location, right Wolfhound? Profit before community service?

Money

Putting money up front is a challenge for a little ol' 501(c).3 as you have no guarantee that you will make it back and you must at least break even. It will work out one day or someone with a chunk of land will simply invite us out and the range loses completely. Having a highly portable program has its benefits. LOL

The Wolfhound said:

. It gets discussed then nothing happens. It would be a good location for us. There is a lot of cross-pollination between 4-H and Appleseed on the national level and many of the instructors do both.

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But 4H will not recognize NRA instructors or BSA instructors Even through I have NRA instructor certificates DOJ certificates I had to take 4H courses in rifle, pistol, shotgun to teach at and for 4H

Then the NRA will not recognize my DOJ certificates nor my 4H certificates

DOJ well not recognize my NRA or 4H certificates

Even through the course material are almost identical

So now I hold NRA, DOJ and 4H instructor certificates and if I want to instruct at a BSA camp I would have to take their instructor courses

There might be cross pollination but there is no fertilization.

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

But 4H will not recognize NRA instructors or BSA instructors Even through I have NRA instructor certificates DOJ certificates I had to take 4H courses in rifle, pistol, shotgun to teach at and for 4H

Then the NRA will not recognize my DOJ certificates nor my 4H certificates

DOJ well not recognize my NRA or 4H certificates

Even through the course material are almost identical

So now I hold NRA, DOJ and 4H instructor certificates and if I want to instruct at a BSA camp I would have to take their instructor courses

There might be cross pollination but there is no fertilization.

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This is pathetic, isn't it! There's no wonder our second amendment is almost worthless today, with this kind of attitude among the so-called pro-gun crowd, crowing and strutting and protecting their "own" turf at the expense of second amendment training for the next generation!

Old Virginia Joe said:

This is pathetic, isn't it! There's no wonder our second amendment is almost worthless today, with this kind of attitude among the so-called pro-gun crowd, crowing and strutting and protecting their "own" turf at the expense of second amendment training for the next generation!

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OVJ it is all about the all mighty dollar...

ipse

solus said:

OVJ it is all about the all mighty dollar...

ipse

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There is no money in being a 4h instructor it is totally a volunteer position and I spent a lot of my own money instructing for 4H The same with being a BSA instructor unless one take a position instructing at a BSA summer camp than there is very little money.

There can be money made doing CCW instruction, self defense instruction and martial arts training whether it be the unarmed arts or the armed arts.

Is making money bad I don't think so.

What is wrong is the state mandating training to exercise a constitutional right.

Wakefield 4H Camp

Virginia 4H recognizes NRA Instructor credentials, but with just NRA credentials, you can't instruct 4H youth without a 4H instructor present. The 4H instructor course includes how to specifically work with kids, how to move them into proper shooting positions, child abuse awareness stuff...

Wakefield has a 4H club that is home based there, maybe that's why Appleseed isn't embraced there. Swamp Shooters is the club's name. It is associated with the private shooting club that has a partnership with 4H, Airfield Shooting Club.

Both 4H camps, Appomattox and Wakefield, are great for the kids. Appomattox camp was the premier shooting camp for VA 4H, until the ranges at Wakefield were built up. (Wakefield was/is the premier VA 4H horse camp) Wakefield's shooting camp started in '05 or '06.

OBTW, NRA broke ranks with 4H about 10 years ago. When I got my 4H rifle cert, for $5, I could convert it to a NRA rifle cert. The 4H course was the NRA course but with the extra Child Protection stuff added in. But from what I heard from the VA 4H State Director was that some States (not VA) abused it and NRA cut the opportunity...

NRA's youth shooting group is still very much entwined with the 4H organizations in a myriad of ways. the friends of the NRA constantly coordinate events with other shooting sports groups across the nation.

unfortunately, as Old VA Joe pointed out the individual community egos leading to one-up-man-ship tactics diminish the overall shooting sports program's results so time and effort is spent needlessly 'training' those individuals in everybody's perception of 'unique methodology'.

sorry, to burst anybody's bubble, there are only a certain number of fundamental variants which are the crux to successfully shooting a rifle, competition level notwithstanding. which ever pet variant you wish to emphasis after the fundamentals are initially taught to tune in a shooter's accuracy, be it breath control, sighting, uh trigger control, follow thru...who cares as long as everyone is remembering the goal is a safe & successful shooting experience for the youth.

4H says they need to assure youth protection is learned by their instructors...duh, so does the B/G scouts and USAArchery groups? USAA actually does a bkgnd check before they will award instructor credentials above level 1.

personally, i was informed during a telcon last year with the 4H coordinator, "nope we won't even consider training you if you are an instructor with the NRA." said fine and good luck with your youth's shooting sports programs.

as for the money aspect...sorry i did not mean the instructors were receiving the $$$$ as the majority of those i know are volunteers interested in safely spreading the shooting sports experience to the communities youth, but meant rather the organizational entities getting the money.

ipse

Air said:

Wakefield has a 4H club that is home based there, maybe that's why Appleseed isn't embraced there. Swamp Shooters is the club's name. It is associated with the private shooting club that has a partnership with 4H, Airfield Shooting Club.

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Look at it this way. Inasmuch as Appleseed is NOT a club, but a gateway experience to appreciation of firearms, and study of our national history, where is the conflict? To interest people more in firearms is a potential GATEWAY to greater membership demand IN a gun club such as the Swamp Shooters, right? In this case, one hand would wash the other quite well, it seems to me. It's all good, right? What am I missing here in the logic?

What did ASC say when asked?

Back to the original topic, I hope your son has as much fun at camp as my son did. He is still in contact with some of his fellow campers many years later.

Air said:

What did ASC say when asked?

Back to the original topic, I hope your son has as much fun at camp as my son did. He is still in contact with some of his fellow campers many years later.

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As to their response, from what I was told by Wolfhound, the state AS coordinator, it was barely lukewarm, and they required a fee level that well exceeded the normal fees in this state. Maybe he will pitch in here more detail.

We picked the kid up today. Sounds OK from the report I got, except there was sharing of the camp's rifles, so there was NO zeroing of the sights per the specific kid's sight picture, and without that, per my experience, there is no hope of a child having a chance of winning any camp competitions. Many kids brought their own rifles apparently. Also, some had scopes, competing with iron sights.