color of law
Accomplished Advocate
All true, but if the judge has an ounce of integrity in caring about his reputation he won't want to be overturned.
On the other hand he is a political animal.....
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St. Louis Zoo: communication log + TRO filing/status + legal/financial help needed
- Thread starter BB62
- Start date
On the other hand he is a political animal.....
Very keen/insightful - which carries us to the judge's dilemma of whether it is better from his perspective to render a straight decision or intentionally (or unintentionally) create the vehicle for higher review. In the first case, it may still be appealed. In none is his reputation among his peers diminished and his professional integrity is preserved. We are but players upon a stage and the reviews are not in yet.
A favorable lower court ruling may solve the problem for this incident, but it will end there w/o precedent - a small step w/o any giant leap for mankind, though many a journey of a thousand miles begins with such.
STLDaniel
Regular Member
Good points, but I doubt it would end there. I'd put good money that the zoo would appeal and we will still get precedent set. They won't care that they're risking precedents b/c they will already be forced to accept firearms without it, so they will continue to fight.
An appeals judge could remand it back to lower court for decision = no precedent.
BB62
Accomplished Advocate
I got home at 4:20 this morning, and am still beat, despite sleeping for 4+hours. 
I'll try to post in the next few days.
Two things: 1) the judge is a *she*, and 2) the Post-Dispatch reporter must have been in another courtroom than the one I was in.
Finally, heartfelt THANKS to all who have contributed in various ways.
I'll try to post in the next few days.Two things: 1) the judge is a *she*, and 2) the Post-Dispatch reporter must have been in another courtroom than the one I was in.
Finally, heartfelt THANKS to all who have contributed in various ways.
This is the Post-Dispatch article.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_9a4cb845-9ca6-5a4a-bac8-99ca16f8eb20.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_9a4cb845-9ca6-5a4a-bac8-99ca16f8eb20.html
I got home at 4:20 this morning, and am still beat, despite sleeping for 4+hours.
Two things: 1) the judge is a *she*, and 2) the Post-Dispatch reporter must have been in another courtroom than the one I was in.
Finally, heartfelt THANKS to all who have contributed in various ways.
BB62
Accomplished Advocate
Both sides have rested their case relevant to the preliminary injunction.
The December 8 date is the deadline for both sides to file memorandums regarding why, based on what was presented and precedence, the judge should turn the TRO into a preliminary injunction, or dissolve it.
If the matter is turned into a PI, discovery/filings/etc. will begin, leading up to a hearing on a permanent injunction.
The December 8 date is the deadline for both sides to file memorandums regarding why, based on what was presented and precedence, the judge should turn the TRO into a preliminary injunction, or dissolve it.
If the matter is turned into a PI, discovery/filings/etc. will begin, leading up to a hearing on a permanent injunction.
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Best wishes - enjoy Thanksgiving at home. Appreciate very much what you are doing.
BB62
Accomplished Advocate
Educational institution", "maintains an Education Department that employs 17 professional educators who develop and deliver educational programming on a daily basis at the Zoo", etc.
This all sounds vaguely familiar: http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...Zoo-reinstalls-signs-banning-guns-6655708.php
This all sounds vaguely familiar: http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...Zoo-reinstalls-signs-banning-guns-6655708.php
BB62
Accomplished Advocate
When court adjourned this past Tuesday, I was anxious to get out of town before rush hour, so I regret that I neglected to ask everyone to get together for a picture.
At court were Daniel Harp, pictured previously, Wes Kelley, and two supporters who wish to remain anonymous - who travelled all the way from Houston, Texas, to attend. They are shown below in Ms. Hogan's office. Note the contents adjacent to my left shoulder.
I've asked Ms. Hogan for the documents which became exhibits (I think that's the right term), and will ask kcgunfan to post them when they become available. I think members here will be shocked. <struggles to not say more> Ms. Hogan is a jewel.
In the meanwhile, I'd like to again express my deep appreciation to everyone who has contributed in any way towards furthering this cause - OUR cause.
At court were Daniel Harp, pictured previously, Wes Kelley, and two supporters who wish to remain anonymous - who travelled all the way from Houston, Texas, to attend. They are shown below in Ms. Hogan's office. Note the contents adjacent to my left shoulder.
I've asked Ms. Hogan for the documents which became exhibits (I think that's the right term), and will ask kcgunfan to post them when they become available. I think members here will be shocked. <struggles to not say more> Ms. Hogan is a jewel.
In the meanwhile, I'd like to again express my deep appreciation to everyone who has contributed in any way towards furthering this cause - OUR cause.
New documents
BB62 gave me these two documents last week, but asked me to wait until after Tuesday to post them. So, here they are. As usual, the documents are here:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_KpluV_-2zaS0hDeWtQTnVCdk0&usp=sharing
The first is the Ex B Subpoena, which is the confirmation that the VP of Internal Affairs for the Zoo was served a subpoena to show at the hearing, along with supporting documentation. Apparently, the zoo replied that the subpoena is defective (no copy of that document.) The the VP would show, but not bring any internal documentation. BB62's second item (Memo Deschampes Subpoena) was apparently to compel the production of the documents.
From the writeup of the hearing on Tuesday, it sounds like the Zoo's attempt to have the production of documents squashed failed. If I have that wrong, I'm sure that someone will be kind enough to correct me.
For the record, BB62 asked me to post these a couple days ago. I was remiss.
As I get more documents, I'll be happy to post them.
BB62 gave me these two documents last week, but asked me to wait until after Tuesday to post them. So, here they are. As usual, the documents are here:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_KpluV_-2zaS0hDeWtQTnVCdk0&usp=sharing
The first is the Ex B Subpoena, which is the confirmation that the VP of Internal Affairs for the Zoo was served a subpoena to show at the hearing, along with supporting documentation. Apparently, the zoo replied that the subpoena is defective (no copy of that document.) The the VP would show, but not bring any internal documentation. BB62's second item (Memo Deschampes Subpoena) was apparently to compel the production of the documents.
From the writeup of the hearing on Tuesday, it sounds like the Zoo's attempt to have the production of documents squashed failed. If I have that wrong, I'm sure that someone will be kind enough to correct me.
For the record, BB62 asked me to post these a couple days ago. I was remiss.
As I get more documents, I'll be happy to post them.
BB62
Accomplished Advocate
BB62
Accomplished Advocate
* Death in Ms. Hogan's family, filing deadline extended *
Ms. Hogan's mother-in-law passed has passed away after being in the hospital last week.
The filing deadline for each attorney's paperwork has been extended until next Tuesday, 12/15/16.
Ms. Hogan's mother-in-law passed has passed away after being in the hospital last week.
The filing deadline for each attorney's paperwork has been extended until next Tuesday, 12/15/16.
Please express our sympathy to her family and friends.
BB62
Accomplished Advocate
Will do.
BB62
Accomplished Advocate
** Documents!! **
As OCDO member STLDaniel posted in post #146: "There was a subpoena by the defense requesting Mr. Deschamp be available for testimony and to bring all documentation relied on for the initial verified petition" (my underline) This is that documentation.
Read the documentation with the above quote from the subpoena in mind.
I'm sure kcgunfan will let everyone know when he has them hosted. It's an 8MB .pdf file called "Exhibits".
Link to files: http://tinyurl.com/pl6gj99
Thanks again to everyone.
As OCDO member STLDaniel posted in post #146: "There was a subpoena by the defense requesting Mr. Deschamp be available for testimony and to bring all documentation relied on for the initial verified petition" (my underline) This is that documentation.
Read the documentation with the above quote from the subpoena in mind.
I'm sure kcgunfan will let everyone know when he has them hosted. It's an 8MB .pdf file called "Exhibits".
Link to files: http://tinyurl.com/pl6gj99
Thanks again to everyone.
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BB62
Accomplished Advocate
** Preliminary Injunction - memos filed **
Memorandums of law were due and filed yesterday. Judge Moriarity asked for them following the preliminary injunction hearing on November 28.
The two files are called "Smith Prelim Memo" and "Zoo Prelim Memo".
Observant and/or knowledgeable people will notice various, shall we say "misstatements of fact" in the Zoo's filing.
Thanks once again to kcgunfan.
Link to files: http://tinyurl.com/pl6gj99
Memorandums of law were due and filed yesterday. Judge Moriarity asked for them following the preliminary injunction hearing on November 28.
The two files are called "Smith Prelim Memo" and "Zoo Prelim Memo".
Observant and/or knowledgeable people will notice various, shall we say "misstatements of fact" in the Zoo's filing.
Thanks once again to kcgunfan.
Link to files: http://tinyurl.com/pl6gj99
BB62
Accomplished Advocate
>> Next phase <<
The next step is for the judge to consider the memorandums just filed, and to issue a ruling on the preliminary injunction.
Ms. Hogan tells me that Judge Moriarity normally takes about 30 days to issue a ruling, but of course, there are no promises.
If I (we) "lose", by virtue of a preliminary injunction being issued, as I understand it the next step is for more court filings, discovery, depositions, etc., culminating in a hearing on a permanent injunction.
The next step is for the judge to consider the memorandums just filed, and to issue a ruling on the preliminary injunction.
Ms. Hogan tells me that Judge Moriarity normally takes about 30 days to issue a ruling, but of course, there are no promises.
If I (we) "lose", by virtue of a preliminary injunction being issued, as I understand it the next step is for more court filings, discovery, depositions, etc., culminating in a hearing on a permanent injunction.