Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 63

Thread: Charleston church shooting: 9 killed

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,613

    Charleston church shooting: 9 killed

    Eight died at the scene in downtown Charleston, South Carolina; a ninth died at a hospital.

    Authorities are calling the incident a hate crime.

    The gunman is still at large, police say.

    Charleston, South Carolina (CNN)[Latest developments]

    • The person who shot and killed nine people at Charleston's Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church was there for about an hour, attending a meeting with the eventual victims, before he began shooting, Charleston police Chief Greg Mullen said Thursday morning.
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/18/us/charleston-south-carolina-shooting/

    In South Carolina guns are banned in churches without the specific permission of a church official. End result is that few if any permit carriers would be carrying in church - no one would be able to stop the carnage. Victims were fish in a barrel - sad and totally unacceptable.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-18-2015 at 08:52 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    Open carry is allowed for only specific purposes/activities.

    SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

    It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law: http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c023.php
    I lived at the foot of Calhoun Street (once Boundary Street) on Concord Street 2003 - 2006 when we moved to Gold Star Open Carry Wisconsin.

    ETA: As I noted earlier to my private correspondents, though the coverage was then just beginning, I noticed no armored paramilitary enforcers and pray that CPD Reuben Greenberg's policies and lessons have been sustained. (I lived in metro-Charleston from 1975 (EAOS USN) through my career at the public shipyard, retirement and ten years post-retirement. )
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-18-2015 at 09:19 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,613
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,613
    Couldn't add second link to the above.

    Here 'tis -

    http://wtvr.com/2015/06/18/dylann-st...ing-to-report/
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    "Before Thursday, Roof had been arrested twice in South Carolina as an adult, according to the State Law Enforcement Division. He was jailed March 1 in Lexington County on a drug charge and again on April 26 on a trespassing charge."
    http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...PC16/150619404
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Montana
    Posts
    3,137
    The media seems to be making an issue of the patches on his jacket. They (media) seem to believe these are the badges of racism. Sad that they target his clothing.

    Were his drug arrests before his birthday in april? If so, that would make him a prohibited person, not eligible to receive a firearm,eh? Was it an illegal transfer, and the individual who gave it to him gets arrested for it? The possibilities are endless, I better get popcorn.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  7. #7
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    mayberry, nc
    Posts
    2,258
    Thanks for the Info GRAPE. I was wondering if the church had been a GFZ. So it is by law. So that means it is the state's fault for this massacre. Interesting

    wonder when SC is going to catch up with the rest of America
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    [ ... ] wonder when SC is going to catch up with the rest of America
    Constitutional/Open Carry? It will never while the P4P hegemony persists in South Carolina. Note that one of the victims, the Reverend Senator Clementa Pinckney was a powerful voice against liberalization of civil rights to the RKABA.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    134

    unfortunately.............

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Constitutional/Open Carry? It will never while the P4P hegemony persists in South Carolina. Note that one of the victims, the Reverend Senator Clementa Pinckney was a powerful voice against liberalization of civil rights to the RKABA.
    were he still alive, he might think differently of it now. Sad, but true. Let it be a lesson to others. You need to be able to defend yourself, period.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    ...Note that one of the victims, the Reverend Senator Clementa Pinckney was a powerful voice against liberalization of civil rights to the RKABA.
    Where can we get a cite for that to use it elsewhere?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,613
    In the middle of an article is this an example of the limited vision of a political leader who maybe, just maybe, has had his eyes opened.

    "It is senseless, it is unfathomable that somebody in today's society would walk into a church when people are having a prayer meeting and take their lives."
    "This is a most unspeakable and heartbreaking tragedy," said Mayor Joe Riley. "People in prayer on Wednesday evening. A ritual of coming together, praying and worshiping God, and to have an awful person come in and shoot them is inexplicable. Obviously, the most intolerable and unbelievable act possible."
    http://www.nbc12.com/story/29347341/...d-in-shelby-nc

    Now the question remains, will he and others look to pass more friutless laws that only restrict the law abiding OR will they have a true epiphany and let good people be armed so as to have the chance to defend themselves, their loved ones, and their friends/neighbors from such senseless acts?

    While a gun is no magic talisman that wards off evil, it is a great potential game changer for honest people when faced with immediate life or death situations that no law will prevent. I have a cell phone, but when bullets come my way, it will not, it must not, be the first tool for which I reach. The object being to stop the individual(s) from taking the lives of innocents.

    I am reminded of the New Life Church story (#4) where someone armed stopped/limited the carnage in a church - only possible because they were armed. There are others - I have personal knowledge of the Golden Market (#6) event too.
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthi...it#.flnwEvk2EE
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ... I have a cell phone, but when bullets come my way, it will not, it must not, be the first tool for which I reach. ...
    How dare you delay the arrival of the guys that have to draw the chalk outlines!
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154

    South Carolina Firearms Local Regulations preemption

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    [ ... ]Now the question remains, will he and others look to pass more friutless laws that only restrict the law abiding OR will they have a true epiphany and let good people be armed so as to have the chance to defend themselves, their loved ones, and their friends/neighbors from such senseless acts? [ ... ]
    Title 23 - Law Enforcement and Public Safety, CHAPTER 31 Firearms ARTICLE 7 Local Regulations

    SECTION 23-31-510. Regulation of ownership, transfer, or possession of firearm or ammunition; discharge on landowner's own property.

    No governing body of any county, municipality, or other political subdivision in the State may enact or promulgate any regulation or ordinance that regulates or attempts to regulate:

    (1) the transfer, ownership, possession, carrying, or transportation of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, or any combination of these things; or

    (2) a landowner discharging a firearm on the landowner's property to protect the landowner's family, employees, the general public, or the landowner's property from animals that the landowner reasonably believes pose a direct threat or danger to the landowner's property, people on the landowner's property, or the general public. For purposes of this item, the landowner's property must be a parcel of land comprised of at least twenty-five contiguous acres. Any ordinance regulating the discharge of firearms that does not specifically provide for an exclusion pursuant to this item is unenforceable as it pertains to an incident described in this item; otherwise, the ordinance is enforceable.

    HISTORY: 1986 Act No. 532, Section 2; 2008 Act No. 220, Section 1, eff May 21, 2008.

    SECTION 23-31-520. Power to regulate public use of firearms; confiscation of firearms or ammunition.

    This article does not affect the authority of any county, municipality, or political subdivision to regulate the careless or negligent discharge or public brandishment of firearms, nor does it prevent the regulation of public brandishment of firearms during the times of or a demonstrated potential for insurrection, invasions, riots, or natural disasters. This article denies any county, municipality, or political subdivision the power to confiscate a firearm or ammunition unless incident to an arrest.

    HISTORY: 1986 Act No. 532, Section 3; 2006 Act No. 347, Section 3, eff June 9, 2006.
    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t23c031.php

    Charleston City Code

    Sec. 21-217. - Carrying loaded firearm.

    Except as provided in S.C. Code 1976, § 16-23-20, no person without valid authority from a proper government agency shall carry on or about his person any firearm containing ammunition, or any pistol, whether concealed or not and whether or not containing ammunition.

    (Code 1975, § 52-8)

    State Law reference— Carrying pistols restricted, S.C. Code 1976, § 16-23-20; carrying firearms in or about public buildings, S.C. Code 1976, § 16-23-420; carrying weapons on school property, S.C. Code 1976, § 16-23-430; carrying concealed weapons, S.C. Code 1976, § 16-23-460
    .
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-18-2015 at 07:09 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  14. #14
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,795
    Quote Originally Posted by RK3369 View Post
    were he still alive, he might think differently of it now.
    Possibly, but--knowing nothing of him and just speaking of people generally--unlikely.

    It is human nature to see things through the lens of our preconceived biases and beliefs. We here see this horrific crime as evidence supporting our view that good men need to be armed in self defense.

    But those who believe that "easy access to guns" is the cause of criminal violence or at least a major facilitator of it, are likely to view this crime as one more evidence that they are right. If they could just get rid of the guns, such crimes would not occur.

    We all know the logically problem with that line of thinking. But most people who are anti-gun hold that position due to emotion, not logic. Don't expect logic to over emotion very often. "Reason is slave to passion."

    Obviously, the gun haters including Obama won't let this "tragedy go to waste" as he is already calling for a reevaluation of our gun culture. We need to be prepared to respond on the other side.

    Charles
    Last edited by utbagpiper; 06-18-2015 at 10:36 PM.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    3,277
    [QUOTE=utbagpiper;2148244][QUOTE=RK3369;2148214]were he still alive, he might think differently of it now.

    Possibly, but--knowing nothing of him and just speaking of people generally--unlikely.

    It is human nature to see things through the lens of our preconceived biases and beliefs. We here see this horrific crime as evidence supporting our view that good men need to be armed in self defense.

    But those who believe that "easy access to guns" is the cause of criminal violence or at least a major facilitator of it, are likely to view this crime as one more evidence that they are right. If they could just get rid of the guns, such crimes would not occur.

    We all know the logically problem with that line of thinking. But most people who are anti-gun hold that position due to emotion, not logic. Don't expect logic to over emotion very often. "Reason is slave to passion."

    Obviously, the gun haters including Obama won't let this "tragedy go to waste" as he is already calling for a reevaluation of our gun culture. We need to be prepared to respond on the other side.

    Charles
    +1
    Obama the anti that he is, stated, it is just to easy to get a gun these days... I say not that easy for law abiding citizens to get a gun these days... I know some LAC in Jersey waiting over 2 plus years for a permit...
    Only criminals have easy access to weapons and easy access to unarmed folks due in part to all the anti laws and regulations..

    This was yet another horrible event in a world full of sick crazy people, now we need to make sure that the not so sick crazy people can defend themselves and their loved ones against the crazies..

    I say be trained, armed, and ready for danger where ever you go, for a crazy may be around to do you and your family grave harm...

    My prayers go out to the families however prayers don't deter bullets, even in a church..

    My .02

    Regards

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  16. #16
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489
    What a terrible incident. I read that he reloaded 5 times. 5 times!
    I can only imagine the terror these people went through. I wonder if any of them wished for a gun as Mr Crazy reloaded.
    **** GFZs.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154

    Reverend Senator Clementa Pinckney (D-45), “an anti-gun activist”

    Mr. Pratt also said that the Rev. Clementa Pinckney [SC Senator D 45], the Emanuel AME Church’s pastor who died in the shooting, was “an anti-gun activist” who had voted against concealed-carry legislation in his capacity as a Democratic state senator.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...n-rights-supp/
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  18. #18
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Henrico
    Posts
    2,139
    I've read conflicting stories as to whether the shooter passed a background check to obtain the pistol or his father gifted it to him.

    Maybe someone has better Google-fu skills than I do.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Davis County, Utah
    Posts
    528
    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I've read conflicting stories as to whether the shooter passed a background check to obtain the pistol or his father gifted it to him.

    Maybe someone has better Google-fu skills than I do.
    The only reports I've read said his dad gave/bought him one for his 21st birthday.
    Last edited by b0neZ; 06-19-2015 at 11:40 AM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Henrico
    Posts
    2,139
    So is this one of those odd cases where some clerk somewhere didn't file proper paperwork to show that the kid was disqualified when his 4473 went through? Was lying on the 4473 good enough to pass the background check?

    I'm curious about the facts surrounding the purchase and how he was able to obtain the weapon.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    Police reports from Columbia, S.C., explain the misdemeanor charges on his record.

    Roof was arrested in February after workers said he appeared dressed entirely in black and asking strange questions at the Columbiana shopping mall. He was charged with possessing suboxone, a drug typically used to treat heroin addiction. A trespassing charge was added after he showed up again in April, prompting a three year ban from the mall.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/usandwo...308371541.html

    I used to use Oxone - Potassium peroxymonosulfate or potassium monopersulfate - in bromine hot tub chemistry.

    Suboxone is Buprenorphine, AKA Cizdol, Subutex, Suboxone, Zubsolv, Bunavail et alii, a semisynthetic opioid derivative of thebaine. It is a mixed agonist–antagonist opioid receptor modulator that is used to treat opioid addiction in higher dosages, to control moderate acute pain in non-opioid-tolerant individuals in lower dosages and to control moderate chronic pain in even smaller doses.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-19-2015 at 02:01 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    He's confessed to wanting to start a race war.

    http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w...psgad0ccax.jpg

    (Sorry, OCDO says it exceeds my quota.)

    Very possible the family did try to get him some help but may have given up after the system threw too many obstacles in their way. Much like the Newtown shooter's mom. Or te Va Tech shooter's parents. Or the .....

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  23. #23
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426

    church shooting in SC

    By now I'm sure you've all heard about the latest massacre in a "gun-free" zone,
    this time a church in SC.

    I hadn't heard ANYTHING in the media about whether or not it was legal to carry
    in a church in SC, so I went to http://www.handgunlaw.us/
    clicked in the SC area to bring up their PDF http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/southcarolina.pdf
    and paged through looking for prohibited places.
    On page 4 it lists churches, unless the citizen has permission from the church.

    Then I clicked the link provided to go look at the SC law directly on their .gov site.
    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t23c031.php
    and whaddayaknow, but they're right!
    See 23-31-215(M)(8)

    Wonder why none of the media have mentioned this?
    I mean, it's so difficult to find reliable & accurate information...
    Took me, a normal citizen, maybe 3 minutes.
    A trained reporter shouldn't even take that long.

    They couldn't, oh, I don't know... have an agenda or something, could they?

    Feel free to post these links on any news site/story.
    We need to get the word out, before the ghouls start dancing in the blood of these
    latest victims, pushing for more laws.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    [ ... ] We need to get the word out, before the ghouls start dancing in the blood of these latest victims, pushing for more laws.
    Too late. Obama's first words were, "Strike up the band!" as he scattered sand for his soft-shoe routine. Couldn't have Obummer slipping in the blood of innocents.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  25. #25
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,875
    hindsight being what it is, but another common thread flows through the NGZ mass shootings starting back in Columbine HS...

    very few instances are reported where those being shot have attacked the shooter...

    in last night's shooting i can understand why the 87yo and 70yo women wouldn't be able to rush the shooter, but early reports states Roof reloaded 5 times.

    it is a common theme in these each of these mass shooting instances which truly befuddles me...

    grapes example of using personal firearms notwithstanding.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 06-19-2015 at 06:51 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •