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Thread: Lawsuit to Defend Open Carrier in Florida

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Lawsuit to Defend Open Carrier in Florida

    https://www.gofundme.com/DefendingRKBA

    Since 2010 Florida Carry members have been going fishing and lawfully carrying unconcealed handguns in Florida. There has NEVER been a real problem until now.

    Open Carry is completely legal while fishing in Florida.

    Last weekend one of our members, George Freeman, was detained for over an hour after a Tampa Police Officer unsuccessfully attempted sneak up behind him while fishing and grab his holstered handgun. George turned immediately when he felt an unknown person grab for his gun while reaching for a concealed backup gun. As soon as he saw the uniformed officer George stopped before he drew his backup and did not resist the seizure of his handguns. He also presented his valid Florida Concealed Carry License to the officer.

    This extremely dangerous and uncalled-for move by the police officer to seize George’s legal handgun didn’t end once the officer found out that Mr. Freeman was not doing anything wrong. After detaining our member for over an hour the police realized that they could not find any crime to charge him with. So they issued him an order, a trespass notice that prevents him from going to the public pier at Ballast Point for one year.

    George Freeman was NOT breaking any law but he was banned from the city pier for exercising his Second Amendment Right to Bear Arms.

    This happened at the same park that we have often used as a venue for our MONTHLY Open Carry Fishing Events since 2010 with the full knowledge of the City of Tampa and prior coordination with the City Attorney and the Police Department.


    The Tampa Police also questioned Mr. Freeman in an attempt to determine the identities of our other members. A clear violation of their First Amendment Right to Associational Privacy and Right of Peaceful Assembly.

    The State Florida preempts local firearms related policies, trespassing lawful gun owners from public property is against the law. It was also a violation of George’s constitutional rights.

    This will not go unanswered. We are in the process of filing a lawsuit to enforce Florida’s Firearms Preemption Law, the Constitutionally Protected Rights of our members, and to have Mr. Freeman’s trespass order, search, and seizure ruled illegal.

    We need your help! Filing the lawsuit will cost approximately $650 for filing fees and service of process. Depositions, court reporters, transcripts, etc… will run about $1,500 more. We always expect to end up in the Court of Appeals. This requires additional filing fees and litigation related costs for things like travel, and other necessary expenses. Our lawyers are working on a contingency basis, in other words they don’t get paid until we win. We expect to need at least $5,000 to see this case through.

    We have a lot of experience with these types of cases.

    Please help us defend the right to bear arms in court once again.

    Florida Carry is a Not-For-Profit Corporation incorporated in Florida. 501(c)(4) status has been applied for, donations are not deductible for tax purposes.

  2. #2
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    https://www.gofundme.com/DefendingRKBA

    Since 2010 Florida Carry members have been going fishing and lawfully carrying unconcealed handguns in Florida. There has NEVER been a real problem until now.

    Open Carry is completely legal while fishing in Florida.

    Last weekend one of our members, George Freeman, was detained for over an hour after a Tampa Police Officer unsuccessfully attempted sneak up behind him while fishing and grab his holstered handgun. George turned immediately when he felt an unknown person grab for his gun while reaching for a concealed backup gun. As soon as he saw the uniformed officer George stopped before he drew his backup and did not resist the seizure of his handguns. He also presented his valid Florida Concealed Carry License to the officer.

    This extremely dangerous and uncalled-for move by the police officer to seize George’s legal handgun didn’t end once the officer found out that Mr. Freeman was not doing anything wrong. After detaining our member for over an hour the police realized that they could not find any crime to charge him with. So they issued him an order, a trespass notice that prevents him from going to the public pier at Ballast Point for one year.

    George Freeman was NOT breaking any law but he was banned from the city pier for exercising his Second Amendment Right to Bear Arms.

    This happened at the same park that we have often used as a venue for our MONTHLY Open Carry Fishing Events since 2010 with the full knowledge of the City of Tampa and prior coordination with the City Attorney and the Police Department.


    The Tampa Police also questioned Mr. Freeman in an attempt to determine the identities of our other members. A clear violation of their First Amendment Right to Associational Privacy and Right of Peaceful Assembly.

    The State Florida preempts local firearms related policies, trespassing lawful gun owners from public property is against the law. It was also a violation of George’s constitutional rights.

    This will not go unanswered. We are in the process of filing a lawsuit to enforce Florida’s Firearms Preemption Law, the Constitutionally Protected Rights of our members, and to have Mr. Freeman’s trespass order, search, and seizure ruled illegal.

    We need your help! Filing the lawsuit will cost approximately $650 for filing fees and service of process. Depositions, court reporters, transcripts, etc… will run about $1,500 more. We always expect to end up in the Court of Appeals. This requires additional filing fees and litigation related costs for things like travel, and other necessary expenses. Our lawyers are working on a contingency basis, in other words they don’t get paid until we win. We expect to need at least $5,000 to see this case through.

    We have a lot of experience with these types of cases.

    Please help us defend the right to bear arms in court once again.

    Florida Carry is a Not-For-Profit Corporation incorporated in Florida. 501(c)(4) status has been applied for, donations are not deductible for tax purposes.
    Why don't you guys release all this to the media too? This cops name should be everywhere. That was a dangerous and irresponsible move. What did he think he was doing? Obviously he knew George wasn't a criminal or he wouldn't have tried that crap.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

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  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    A press release will go out when the case is filed.
    Last edited by StogieC; 06-18-2015 at 04:02 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    immediately notify TPD's IA with a formal written complaint and recommend you discontinue the discourse on this public forum.

    oh, wait this is a we are looking for money thread...

    sorry to have intruded...especially since the notification of the agencies IA costs you absolutely nothing.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    We have dealt with the Tampa PD on these issues before, many times... A lawsuit is now necessary.

  6. #6
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    We have dealt with the Tampa PD on these issues before, many times... A lawsuit is now necessary.
    ah, this happened just last weekend and you are now moving directly to lawsuit without any preliminary paperwork dance to have an internal agency investigation to validate your member's 'he said, he said' account or FOIA to see what the officer report(s) said ~ the officer cuffed your member for safety reason???, etc.?

    ok, however, just seems a bit strange a uniformed officer could 'sneak' up behind someone and that someone would immediately stop SD activities of 'going for his BUG' (uh, what is wrong with his firearm on his hip??) just last weekend and you are seeking funding w/o formal complaints to the agency involved.

    'friad an officer of the law would be needing a minimum a wrist brace and possibly other medical attention if they attempted to 'sneak' up on me to grab my holstered firearm and the officer's supervisor would be on scene immediately after I was released.

    just saying best of luck

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 06-18-2015 at 12:31 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    If you assume we are only going off of our member's account of what happened. You would be incorrect in your assumption.
    Last edited by StogieC; 06-18-2015 at 04:04 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    May I have a link to where a donation earmarked specifically and solely for this case might be made?

    Thanks.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    May I have a link to where a donation earmarked specifically and solely for this case might be made?

    Thanks.

    stay safe.
    The go fund me link in the OP is for this case.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    --- Update ---

    A Tampa Police Department spokesperson issued the following statement in the media after the incident became public:

    "It was an error on the officers' part. The trespass warning will be rescinded and we are working to contact Mr. Freeman's to apologize to him.
    Officers are being reminded that open carry of a firearm while fishing is legal in Florida."

    Florida Carry immediately emailed the Tampa Police Department with contact information for Mr. Freeman's attorney. There was no response to the email and his attorney, Eric Friday, has no record of a call being made to his office by anyone with the City of Tampa. The trespass notice has, to our knowledge, not yet been rescinded. Regardless, a simple apology is an insufficient remedy for the violations of civil rights and Florida law suffered by George Freeman, Florida Carry, and our members.
    Last edited by StogieC; 06-19-2015 at 09:18 AM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    If it were me, when they made contact, I'd seek to have the officer charged with attempted theft of a firearm, or something like that. Otherwise it's a consequence-free action. Who knows, the department might have put him up to it. Certainly, they were behind the attempted ban.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    If it were me, when they made contact, I'd seek to have the officer charged with attempted theft of a firearm, or something like that. Otherwise it's a consequence-free action. Who knows, the department might have put him up to it. Certainly, they were behind the attempted ban.
    I react "badly" to attempts like this. It does not matter who the "attacker" is, they will/have been met with my (very painful) immediate action drill. We can work out ID and a "sorry about that" after.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I react "badly" to attempts like this. It does not matter who the "attacker" is, they will/have been met with my (very painful) immediate action drill. We can work out ID and a "sorry about that" after.
    You say that but in reality, it's so shocking that, often, you just 'jump'. Besides, what does it get you but a potential arrest for assault? You have to prove the LEO made a grab, which he will deny.

  14. #14
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I react "badly" to attempts like this. It does not matter who the "attacker" is, they will/have been met with my (very painful) immediate action drill. We can work out ID and a "sorry about that" after.
    MSG, et al., that was my perception, might, just might help the nice LE up off the ground...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  15. #15
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    You say that but in reality, it's so shocking that, often, you just 'jump'. Besides, what does it get you but a potential arrest for assault? You have to prove the LEO made a grab, which he will deny.
    Maverick, as the kind folk with FL Carry, have publicly stated on this forum: quote StogieC If you assume we are only going off of our member's account of what happened. You would be incorrect in your assumption. unquote

    Soooo...the org must have other witnesses who can attest to the officer's unprofessional behaviour last weekend, therefore, could attest to the reactions of said failed attempt and the nice LE slipping on the wet pier.

    'sides, everybody risk's 'potential arrest' from interactions with the nice peace officers under the most mundane circumstances at any given time. some citizens even die.

    sidebar, StogieC, was that main stream media, tampa bay times where the police apologized or some the backwater "we only carry those stories against police' type op-ed internet sources which your org feeds information to?

    therefore, could you provide a cite for said 'media' apoligy. thanks

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 06-19-2015 at 11:04 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  16. #16
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    You say that but in reality, it's so shocking that, often, you just 'jump'. Besides, what does it get you but a potential arrest for assault? You have to prove the LEO made a grab, which he will deny.

    Noticed he said painful drill. You can trust MSG would do exactly as he says.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ...

    sidebar, StogieC, was that main stream media, tampa bay times where the police apologized or some the backwater "we only carry those stories against police' type op-ed internet sources which your org feeds information to?

    therefore, could you provide a cite for said 'media' apoligy. thanks

    ipse
    Sarasota Herald Tribune - see comments
    http://thegunwriter.blogs.heraldtrib...al-open-carry/

    Guns.com
    http://www.guns.com/2015/06/18/tampa...arry-incident/

  18. #18
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    thanks, I think...Sarasota HT is considered a mainstream media outlet?...hummmm, thanks.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    thanks, I think...Sarasota HT is considered a mainstream media outlet?...hummmm, thanks.

    ipse
    The Sarasota Herald-Tribune is a daily newspaper located in Sarasota, Florida, founded in 1925 as the Sarasota Herald. It was owned by Halifax Media Group from 2012 to 2015, when Halifax was acquired by New Media Investment Group. Along with Comcast, its primary media partner is SNN, a 24-hour local news channel telecasting from the Main Street building. SNN was founded by the Herald-Tribune in 1995 and was sold to LDB Media in January 2009. The current publisher is Patrick Dorsey and Bill Church is the executive editor.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    The Sarasota Herald-Tribune is a daily newspaper located in Sarasota, Florida, founded in 1925 as the Sarasota Herald. It was owned by Halifax Media Group from 2012 to 2015, when Halifax was acquired by New Media Investment Group. Along with Comcast, its primary media partner is SNN, a 24-hour local news channel telecasting from the Main Street building. SNN was founded by the Herald-Tribune in 1995 and was sold to LDB Media in January 2009. The current publisher is Patrick Dorsey and Bill Church is the executive editor.
    Good history on a once sleepy town now sprawled beyond recognition.........but do you remember when the Palmers owned almost everything there (waterfront black angus ranch, old money) and the Palmer Bank? I do.....from a previous life. Wife's mother was Mrs. Palmer's personal assistant and her father was Mr. Palmer's boat/yacht captain. All long gone and the history replaced with corporate entities and housing developments, think one is called Palmer Ranch.

    BTW - the Palmers kept guns for various sundry purposes.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-26-2015 at 03:54 PM. Reason: added
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  21. #21
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    What am I missing? Why the hostility? On the face of it, it seems like a case OCers would want to financially support.
    Is there some history or something I am unaware of?
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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  22. #22
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    stoogie...hows the lawsuit coming mate??

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 07-11-2015 at 05:51 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    I'd be interested in reviewing the complaint, and if I get a draft before filing, I may have some observations that would be of use.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  24. #24
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    yahoooo FL Carry...hows the fisherman's lawsuit coming? https://dockets.justia.com/docket/fl...cv02262/315482

    making forward progress?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  25. #25
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    yahoooo FL Carry...hows the fisherman's lawsuit coming? https://dockets.justia.com/docket/fl...cv02262/315482

    making forward progress?

    ipse
    They have much bigger fish to fry right now, like getting brown shirted senator from Cuba to hear our open carry bill. And campus carry. They also insist on wasting time in the FLSC with OC. The state responded today.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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