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Thread: Uber bans open/conceal carry; criminals can now confidently carjack Uber marked cars

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Uber bans open/conceal carry; criminals can now confidently carjack Uber marked cars

    Hat tip to Dave Workman.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/did-...ers-passengers


    Now in Seattle if you are OCing Uber, like Lyft, will not allow you in the car. If you are CCing you are "not supposed" to get in the car and doing so could wind you up in hot water if there was a car accident and they pulled you from the wreckage and found your gun. After all, the only way to use Uber is to click the "I agree to terms and conditions" button before they let you summon a car. Yes, not many read them but that won't be a legal excuse.

    Apparently they prefer their drivers and passengers to be victimized. I know several people including a close family member who have been near-victims of attempted carjackings in downtown Seattle.

    Even more insane, Uber is doing this on the heels of one of their drivers with a valid carry permit in Chiraq helped stop a madman from slaughtering a crowd of people.

    Lesson here to criminals: confidently carjack Uber or Lyft marked cars. You probably won't meet with resistance and even if you do, you can rest easy knowing that Uber and Lyft will ruthlessly punish any drivers or passengers who attempt to defend against you with a firearm.
    Last edited by Alpine; 06-21-2015 at 03:40 AM.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Don't think a Uber car will be any more vulnerable than any other private car. I don't think they're externally marked. You summon one using the app.

    A BG using a stolen phone might have some success, I suppose, but aren't most hijacked cars a spur of the moment thing?

    If you are CC-ing and have to defend yourself, I think the law will overlook the trespassing while armed rule you might click on.

    I think Uber put it in there to deal with potential insurance issues and costs.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Uber is a California company. Like many Californians, they start from the idea that 'all guns are evil, intended solely for murder, and there is no good use for one'.

    Is it any wonder that they would prohibit carrying a gun even in states where guns are legal? After all, they don't want their drivers or passengers murdering anyone, and everyone knows criminals are called that because they scrupulously obey every law, so obviously banning guns will prevent murders!
    Last edited by Difdi; 06-21-2015 at 10:37 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    My friend was in the process to get started, had already passed his background check, and was about to get his car inspected. He's now telling them to F-off. Too bad more of their drivers aren't in a position or mindset to do so. They will keep this policy because not enough people care or can afford to care.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Now let's see them create a rule that you can't talk in the car and listen to the left howl about rights....
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Don't think a Uber car will be any more vulnerable than any other private car. I don't think they're externally marked. You summon one using the app.

    A BG using a stolen phone might have some success, I suppose, but aren't most hijacked cars a spur of the moment thing?

    If you are CC-ing and have to defend yourself, I think the law will overlook the trespassing while armed rule you might click on.

    I think Uber put it in there to deal with potential insurance issues and costs.
    I didn't realize there are no external markers on Uber until I looked it up.

    However, the other company also doing this, Lyft, requires this noticeable marking on the front grille.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Uber has claimed to be a smart phone app and nothing more.
    Your insurance will not cover damages and niether with Uber. Except under very limited circumstances.

    Besides, all the drivers are contract drivers they are not employees. IMHO the disarming clause has no legal application. "We would like to contact you to make pillows at home, part of our requirements is that you cannot possess weapons while you make them."

    Sorry, my car is an extension of my home.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Uber has claimed to be a smart phone app and nothing more.
    Your insurance will not cover damages and niether with Uber. Except under very limited circumstances.

    Besides, all the drivers are contract drivers they are not employees. IMHO the disarming clause has no legal application. "We would like to contact you to make pillows at home, part of our requirements is that you cannot possess weapons while you make them."

    Sorry, my car is an extension of my home.
    +1 Just like Pizza delivery drivers, their car, their choice.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    According to a friend who has used Uber, they are a smartphone app, but you also have to give CC details, which they charge. So a BG would have to steal someone's smartphone -with- the Uber app installed, and since you give your name and a basic description (age?), if a 300lb guy uses 'debbie smythe's' phone app it might raise suspicion.

    It's not impossible to use/target/hijack a Uber car, I suppose, but then the BG would have to hope they are abiding by the new rule, or haven't gone to some other SD option. Uber drivers can still look over their passenger when they drive by and decide to pick a different fare.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 06-21-2015 at 09:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    I didn't realize there are no external markers on Uber until I looked it up.

    However, the other company also doing this, Lyft, requires this noticeable marking on the front grille.
    Lyft requires a pink boa on the grille? Do they also require the Uber sticker on the windshield like the one in the photo?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    According to a friend who has used Uber, they are a smartphone app, but you also have to give CC details, which they charge. So a BG would have to steal someone's smartphone -with- the Uber app installed, and since you give your name and a basic description (age?), if a 300lb guy uses 'debbie smythe's' phone app it might raise suspicion.

    It's not impossible to use/target/hijack a Uber car, I suppose, but then the BG would have to hope they are abiding by the new rule, or haven't gone to some other SD option. Uber drivers can still look over their passenger when they drive by and decide to pick a different fare.
    The user then rates you as 1 star and you lose the contracting ability to ever work with UBER again.

    https://youtu.be/JXt0lG3IRZQ
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 06-21-2015 at 11:48 PM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Lyft requires a pink boa on the grille? Do they also require the Uber sticker on the windshield like the one in the photo?
    I guess a lot of Uber's contractors also work for Lyft as well. However Uber is doing things to try and stop that.

    The research I've done indicates that Uber cars are often unmarked, though some Uber drivers do put a sticker in their window, however the Lyft cars do sport the pink decoration on the grille that is mandatory.
    Last edited by Alpine; 06-22-2015 at 04:39 PM.

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    I wonder if rules like this start to push the limits between "independent" contractors and actual employees.

    Beyond that, the growing number of commercial gun bans is starting to remind me of something from history:



    Clearly, it is time for gun carriers to push for inclusion in anti-discrimination laws.

    Charles
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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Uber works, or used to, in france. "Violent riots" led to this........

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33281896

    French government orders Uber taxi ban after protests
    8 hours ago
    The French government has ordered a ban on the Uber taxi service, following protests by thousands of taxi drivers around the country.
    Uber was banned by a French court last October, but has still been operating while it challenges the decision.
    Access to airports and train stations was blocked and cars vandalised during protests on Thursday.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    So France still surrenders immediately upon violence instead of enforcing freedom? Who would have thought?

    (That statement is following a modern cliché. I actually have the highest respect for the French fighters of days gone by.)
    Last edited by MAC702; 06-26-2015 at 03:16 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I don't understand why these drivers hand over 20% to Uber, when they don't help with insurance, do not provide any benefits other than providing them with passengers. A domain is about 12 bucks, with that any person could access the site of a driver with a smart phone. Payment can be taken by credit card or paypal, shutting Uber completely out of the loop, and then the drivers can make their own rules.

    Independent drivers can easily be found already on Craigslist, though that venue has earned a bad reputation, the idea is sound.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-26-2015 at 05:13 PM.
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    When standing outside a restaurant and you need a car, you don't really want to be trying to find a ride. Uber and similar services provide a good and valuable service to drivers and passengers. It's worth every penny.
    The problem with traditional taxis starts with an inability to summon one in good time outside of certain districts. And cab drivers notoriously do not take good care of their cars or drive with any care.


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    It's called planning ahead, besides that most people have neighbors that are willing to drive them for extra cash. Uber is taking both drivers, and passengers for a ride, IMO.

    If I needed the service I would not give up my right to self defense, or think it appropriate for a private contractor to be told they do not have a right to self defense.
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    It might be nice to be in a situation where planning or relying on community is possible. Many of us live and work in places where such is simply not possible. Other times emergencies arise. The beauty of Uber is that it makes transportation simple and relatively safe. I know people who used to keep a driver's number handy, but that doesn't work when you're out of town or your regular driver is not available. The taxi companies have shown themselves unreliable so Uber and similar services have arrived.
    I travel for work and typically have rent cars, or catch cabs in places where cabs are readily available. I will never again call for a cab in Dallas. The local cabs are almost exclusively run by Yellow, which is owned by crooked political operatives. The cabs are not clean and drivers are not professional. The dispatch is dysfunctional and getting a cab may take 45 minutes or longer. Pre-arranged rides may arrived hours late.
    The market is ripe for a new entry, and the old medallion and city-awarded franchise systems are doomed.

    As for carrying, if they post the state required notice in each vehicle, or hand me a card after they have picked me up, I may get out and leave them hanging, or I may simply say nothing since state law is, at best, fuzzy in Texas on restricting carry in private transportation for hire.


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    It might be nice to be in a situation where planning or relying on community is possible. Many of us live and work in places where such is simply not possible. Other times emergencies arise. The beauty of Uber is that it makes transportation simple and relatively safe. I know people who used to keep a driver's number handy, but that doesn't work when you're out of town or your regular driver is not available. The taxi companies have shown themselves unreliable so Uber and similar services have arrived.
    I travel for work and typically have rent cars, or catch cabs in places where cabs are readily available. I will never again call for a cab in Dallas. The local cabs are almost exclusively run by Yellow, which is owned by crooked political operatives. The cabs are not clean and drivers are not professional. The dispatch is dysfunctional and getting a cab may take 45 minutes or longer. Pre-arranged rides may arrived hours late.
    The market is ripe for a new entry, and the old medallion and city-awarded franchise systems are doomed.

    As for carrying, if they post the state required notice in each vehicle, or hand me a card after they have picked me up, I may get out and leave them hanging, or I may simply say nothing since state law is, at best, fuzzy in Texas on restricting carry in private transportation for hire.


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    As long as you hide your gun or go unarmed. Besides what do you do if no Uber drivers are available?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    It might be nice to be in a situation where planning or relying on community is possible. Many of us live and work in places where such is simply not possible. Other times emergencies arise. The beauty of Uber is that it makes transportation simple and relatively safe. I know people who used to keep a driver's number handy, but that doesn't work when you're out of town or your regular driver is not available. The taxi companies have shown themselves unreliable so Uber and similar services have arrived.
    I travel for work and typically have rent cars, or catch cabs in places where cabs are readily available. I will never again call for a cab in Dallas. The local cabs are almost exclusively run by Yellow, which is owned by crooked political operatives. The cabs are not clean and drivers are not professional. The dispatch is dysfunctional and getting a cab may take 45 minutes or longer. Pre-arranged rides may arrived hours late.
    The market is ripe for a new entry, and the old medallion and city-awarded franchise systems are doomed.

    As for carrying, if they post the state required notice in each vehicle, or hand me a card after they have picked me up, I may get out and leave them hanging, or I may simply say nothing since state law is, at best, fuzzy in Texas on restricting carry in private transportation for hire.


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    Relatively safe?

    Did you miss the investigative reports that showed Uber's background checks were horrible and let people with felony burglary and assault convictions through? One news organization hired a woman with burglary convictions to apply and she was passed! She even said on camera that if she was driving someone to the airport she'd be tempted to drive back after dropping them off and rob their house! So much for "relatively safe."
    This is another one, there are scores of stories like this on the net:
    https://pando.com/2014/04/24/uberx-a...ground-checks/


    Why are you talking about Texas? This is the Washington state sub-forum. The RCWs are very clear on trespassing and posted conditions of entry, especially when it's clear that people are or should be aware of them having actively agreed to them.
    Last edited by Alpine; 06-27-2015 at 12:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Why are you talking about Texas? This is the Washington state sub-forum.
    This is the problem with the "New Posts" listing, dang it. Sorry for the intrusion. (I'm on mobile so which forum it's in doesn't show.)

    But yes, relative safety. Kind of like the guys who look at baggage tags at airports and go rob people's houses based on those. There's always risk.


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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    will be interesting to see ramifications to uber here in the US after the french ban uber last year and they continued to operate...

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33281896

    ipse
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    will be interesting to see ramifications to uber here in the US after the french ban uber last year and they continued to operate...

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33281896

    ipse
    In the U.S., they (Apple/Google at the request of the government) would shut down the app and fix that problem for the most part. It's the app that makes it most useful.
    I heard part of a story today that Ford is looking toward ride sharing rather than ownership in the future. From the little I heard, they are also looking at fractional ownership, especially with respect to self-driving cars.
    I think we are on the way to witnessing a transportation revolution. We should expect short-sighted government types to hinder progress


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    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...armed-drivers/

    "On Wednesday, an Uber driver in Queens was robbed by a man who allegedly got in his car, pointed a rifle at him, and demanded his money.

    This incident took place just two weeks after Uber formally changed its gun policy by banning drivers from possessing firearms for self-defense. It comes less than a week since Uber made that change public."
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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