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Supreme Court Ruling Might be a gun lover's dream

sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
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16,674
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Whatcom County
This is the only thing the 2a is written for. Rewriting it to include SD will, and has perverted it. That is why we are stuck with so many laws limiting how, and when we can carry. NRA brought us these controls, and any new laws they bring, also bring controls. They have made it easier to take our guns away.

If SD had been argued using the 9th, our 2a would still be read as it was written, and all laws infringing on that right would be void.

That means any free person would have the right to have any arm that protected a free state. Including tanks, fighter jets, fully automatic firearms, and having a full armory at the disposal to the people to protect the free state.

The conceal carry(Sonny Crocket) fantasy used by P4P proponents have suckered American gun owners into believing a fallacy. Judges are correct in that OC is the right intended, they are wrong that it is for self defense. The constitution was written to protect the people from government, not protect the government from people, or protect the people from people.

Yep they would never feel the need to enumerate a right bearing arms for personal SD. That right already had long standing common law protection, to the founders that would be like enumerating the right to use eating utensils.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
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here nc
Congress shall make no law snip...
"It is therefore entirely... snip..."
"It was plainly... snip..."
"As the quotations... snip...."
"It is no answer to say, snip....."

nice of you to provide quotes...do you have a viable cite for these quotes to give rightful attribution to?

ipse
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
snip...

Everybody who considers a 18th century flintlock pistol a concealed carry weapon raise your hands?

il_fullxfull.183435574.jpg


uh, er, WW...here I was think'g after looking at the foto it was actually part of her brazzier...:shocker:

ipse
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
This is the only thing the 2a is written for. Rewriting it to include SD will, and has perverted it. That is why we are stuck with so many laws limiting how, and when we can carry. NRA brought us these controls, and any new laws they bring, also bring controls. They have made it easier to take our guns away.

If SD had been argued using the 9th, our 2a would still be read as it was written, and all laws infringing on that right would be void.

That means any free person would have the right to have any arm that protected a free state. Including tanks, fighter jets, fully automatic firearms, and having a full armory at the disposal to the people to protect the free state.

The conceal carry(Sonny Crocket) fantasy used by P4P proponents have suckered American gun owners into believing a fallacy. Judges are correct in that OC is the right intended, they are wrong that it is for self defense. The constitution was written to protect the people from government, not protect the government from people, or protect the people from people.

I think you're right but the why doesn't really matter IMHO.
It could have stated "Because George Washington says he feels 'Gansta' holding a flintlock gat, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
It's a right, that shall not be infringed upon. Even though it is anyway.
 

Citizen

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Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
I believe the author of this article might be onto something....Thoughts??



http://constitutionalrightspac.com/...ndates-nationwide-concealed-carry-reciprocity

The due process clause must mean more than I thought.

I think the author is enjoying himself with an interesting thought experiment.

I woulda sooner said the faith and credit clause covered his argument: Article IV, Section I, "Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof."


Separately, during the senate debate on the 14th Amendment, one of senators expressly argued that blacks would have the same rights to arms.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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11,930
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North Carolina
Sure, they were all from the Heller vs DC opinion authored by Justice Scalia that we were discussing. Full text at:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZO.html

Heller is a large document, could you provide the citations that are directly related to your claims?

You using Heller as a citation is about as valid as gay bashers claiming the bible is a citation that homosexuality is a sin.

I will repeat mine from Heller. Which goes directly against your claim.

“Likewise, in State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann. 489, 490 (1850), the Louisiana Supreme Court held that citizens had a right to carry arms openly: “This is the right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, and which is calculated to incite men to a manly and noble defence of themselves, if necessary, and of their country, without any tendency to secret advantages and unmanly assassinations.””

This is also from Heller

Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.
 
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OC for ME

Regular Member
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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
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Location
White Oak Plantation
But the threat that the new Federal Government would destroy the citizens’ militia by taking away their arms was the reason that right—unlike some other English rights—was codified in a written Constitution.

Nope, the 2A will remain precariously close to elimination. Gay folks are not all lathered up to protect, or restore, our (they included) 2A right.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Nope, the 2A will remain precariously close to elimination. Gay folks are not all lathered up to protect, or restore, our (they included) 2A right.
When the newness of the bright lights wears off, they will perhaps recognize the need for small little friends to accompany them as they make their appointed rounds.

There is no safety in numbness.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
When the newness of the bright lights wears off, they will perhaps recognize the need for small little friends to accompany them as they make their appointed rounds.

There is no safety in numbness.
Perhaps...yet they know the path they walk, and they too know that they do not give a rip about the 2A...they don't need no gun, that's what cops are for...win win for the two.
 

STLDaniel

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Messages
86
Location
Saint Louis
Heller is a large document, could you provide the citations that are directly related to your claims?
I did. Post #16 of this thread. But let me spell it out for you:

First, I do agree with you and your use of that quote from Heller indicating open carry is covered by 2A, so there's no need to continually re-post that as no one has disagreed with you.
Second, I also agree that the right to bear arms is not unlimited.

Now that those have been cleared up, maybe you could actually keep an open mind to the following...

Third: I assert, based on Heller, that Self Defense is indeed fundamental to the 2A, and that the 2A statement regarding the militia was included as the reason the right was codified, not the sole purpose of the right.
"It is therefore entirely sensible that the Second Amendment ’s prefatory clause announces the purpose for which the right was codified: to prevent elimination of the militia. The prefatory clause does not suggest that preserving the militia was the only reason Americans valued the ancient right; most undoubtedly thought it even more important for self-defense and hunting. But the threat that the new Federal Government would destroy the citizens’ militia by taking away their arms was the reason that right—unlike some other English rights—was codified in a written Constitution. Justice Breyer’s assertion that individual self-defense is merely a “subsidiary interest” of the right to keep and bear arms, see post, at 36, is profoundly mistaken. He bases that assertion solely upon the prologue—but that can only show that self-defense had little to do with the right’s codification; it was the central component of the right itself." (underline mine)

Later, the Heller opinion again calls out that self defense is core to the 2A:
"As the quotations earlier in this opinion demonstrate, the inherent right of self-defense has been central to the Second Amendment right."

Fourth, your quotation does not go directly against my claim. Those two reasons for the right to bear arms (self-defense and militia defense from tyrannical government) aren't not contradictory, and both are clearly spelled out as protected by 2A. You can't use Heller to defend the one, and simply ignore the quotations above and assert 2A doesn't cover self defense.
 

WalkingWolf

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I did. Post #16 of this thread. But let me spell it out for you:

First, I do agree with you and your use of that quote from Heller indicating open carry is covered by 2A, so there's no need to continually re-post that as no one has disagreed with you.
Second, I also agree that the right to bear arms is not unlimited.

Now that those have been cleared up, maybe you could actually keep an open mind to the following...

Third: I assert, based on Heller, that Self Defense is indeed fundamental to the 2A, and that the 2A statement regarding the militia was included as the reason the right was codified, not the sole purpose of the right.
"It is therefore entirely sensible that the Second Amendment ’s prefatory clause announces the purpose for which the right was codified: to prevent elimination of the militia. The prefatory clause does not suggest that preserving the militia was the only reason Americans valued the ancient right; most undoubtedly thought it even more important for self-defense and hunting. But the threat that the new Federal Government would destroy the citizens’ militia by taking away their arms was the reason that right—unlike some other English rights—was codified in a written Constitution. Justice Breyer’s assertion that individual self-defense is merely a “subsidiary interest” of the right to keep and bear arms, see post, at 36, is profoundly mistaken. He bases that assertion solely upon the prologue—but that can only show that self-defense had little to do with the right’s codification; it was the central component of the right itself." (underline mine)

Later, the Heller opinion again calls out that self defense is core to the 2A:
"As the quotations earlier in this opinion demonstrate, the inherent right of self-defense has been central to the Second Amendment right."

Fourth, your quotation does not go directly against my claim. Those two reasons for the right to bear arms (self-defense and militia defense from tyrannical government) aren't not contradictory, and both are clearly spelled out as protected by 2A. You can't use Heller to defend the one, and simply ignore the quotations above and assert 2A doesn't cover self defense.

Maybe you should go back and read your post #16, You made claims that had absolutely nothing to do with heller, and or national reciprocity. In fact the ruling made it absolutely clear that conceal carry is a states issue. Which is what is being discussed in THIS thread.
 

California Right To Carry

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
462
Location
United States
If you believe Bob Owens then you will go directly to jail. You will not pass GO and

I believe the author of this article might be onto something....Thoughts??

http://constitutionalrightspac.com/...ndates-nationwide-concealed-carry-reciprocity

I think the author is "on" something which isn't quite the same thing. Fortunately, the NRA accidentally did something useful and broadcast an interview with New Jersey attorney Evan Nappen in which he warned listeners NOT to rely on the article by Bob Owens your link references to keep them out of jail -> http://www.nranews.com/home/video/cam-and-company-2015-will-same-sex-marriage-decision-affect-concealed-carry
 
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