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Thread: Latest SCOTUS decisions brings Reciprocity?

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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    Latest SCOTUS decisions brings Reciprocity?

    Did anyone else hear about this? According to this article, SCOTUS latest decision around marriage has brought on an unintended consequence/benefit around reciprocity. I am wondering if the same applies to open carry as well:

    http://bearingarms.com/scotus-ruling...y-reciprocity/

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeesBonafide View Post
    Did anyone else hear about this? According to this article, SCOTUS latest decision around marriage has brought on an unintended consequence/benefit around reciprocity. I am wondering if the same applies to open carry as well:

    http://bearingarms.com/scotus-ruling...y-reciprocity/
    The ruling is about marriage rights, the court did not even cite any gun references, IMO, it is laughable to take that leap. And anybody suggesting so is pushing for someone else to be a test case. I find this behavior repulsive, if the author of the article wants to be a test case he should step up to the plate, and not give bad legal advice.

    Maybe Bob will travel to DC and declare he is carrying concealed, and we can see how that works out for him.
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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    I am not sure it has too...

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The ruling is about marriage rights, the court did not even cite any gun references, IMO, it is laughable to take that leap. And anybody suggesting so is pushing for someone else to be a test case. I find this behavior repulsive, if the author of the article wants to be a test case he should step up to the plate, and not give bad legal advice.

    Maybe Bob will travel to DC and declare he is carrying concealed, and we can see how that works out for him.
    I am not sure that SCOTUS has to call out or reference guns, open carry or reciprocity at all according to this article. In fact, while the ruling is around "gay marriage" it sites the constitution to justify that (if I read it correctly) that if one state recognizes a right, another state cannot deny you that same right:

    "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    By using the Constitution in such a manner, the Court argues that the Due Process Clause extends “certain personal choices central to individual dignity and autonomy” accepted in a majority of states across the state lines of a handful of states that still banned the practice.

    The vast majority of states are “shall issue” on the matter of issuing concealed carry permits, and enjoy reciprocity with a large number of other states.

    My North Carolina concealed carry permit, for example, was recognized yesterday as being valid in 36 states, which just so happened to be the number of states in which gay marriage was legal yesterday. But 14 states did not recognize my concealed carry permit yesterday.

    Today they must.

    Using the same “due process clause” argument as the Supreme Court just applied to gay marriage, my concealed carry permit must now be recognized as valid in all 50 states and the District of Columbia."

    I could be wrong, but "wow" if this is correct, what a historic decision indeed!
    Last edited by HeesBonafide; 06-28-2015 at 03:05 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeesBonafide View Post
    I am not sure that SCOTUS has to call out or reference guns, open carry or reciprocity at all according to this article. In fact, while the ruling is around "gay marriage" it sites the constitution to justify that (if I read it correctly) that if one state recognizes a right, another state cannot deny you that same right:

    "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    By using the Constitution in such a manner, the Court argues that the Due Process Clause extends “certain personal choices central to individual dignity and autonomy” accepted in a majority of states across the state lines of a handful of states that still banned the practice.

    The vast majority of states are “shall issue” on the matter of issuing concealed carry permits, and enjoy reciprocity with a large number of other states.

    My North Carolina concealed carry permit, for example, was recognized yesterday as being valid in 36 states, which just so happened to be the number of states in which gay marriage was legal yesterday. But 14 states did not recognize my concealed carry permit yesterday.

    Today they must.

    Using the same “due process clause” argument as the Supreme Court just applied to gay marriage, my concealed carry permit must now be recognized as valid in all 50 states and the District of Columbia."

    I could be wrong, but "wow" if this is correct, what a historic decision indeed!
    If you really believe this, Bob, and you can be the first test cases. Or as the great philosopher Nike said "Just do it" then get back to us.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-28-2015 at 03:25 PM.
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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    Here is another article articulating the same thing..

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    If you really believe this, Bob, and you can be the first test cases. Or as the great philosopher Nike said "Just do it" then get back to us.
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ncealed-carry/

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeesBonafide View Post
    Then by all means travel to DC, carry concealed, and tell the first police officer you see. As far as myself, and hopefully others with common sense, I will wait until there is an actual ruling before doing something incredibly stupid.
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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    Killing the messenger....

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Then by all means travel to DC, carry concealed, and tell the first police officer you see. As far as myself, and hopefully others with common sense, I will wait until there is an actual ruling before doing something incredibly stupid.
    I am not trying to engage to have an argument or state "as fact" that this is the case and we all are free to carry concealed in all 50th states... I am merely the messenger as to what others are saying....

    Thought it "might be" interesting for this group....apparently, I was incorrect.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeesBonafide View Post
    I am not trying to engage to have an argument or state "as fact" that this is the case and we all are free to carry concealed in all 50th states... I am merely the messenger as to what others are saying....

    Thought it "might be" interesting for this group....apparently, I was incorrect.
    What others are saying is not responsible, one can ponder theory. But until that theory is argued before the court, and the court rules, IT IS NOT CASE LAW. Suggesting that people should disobey current law because some loons want people to risk the freedom of others for their theories is not only stupid, it is against the rules of OCDO.

    You want to discuss this as a theory to brought to a court, then that is fine, to make a blatant claim is wrong, and hopefully the thread gets shutdown before some fool takes this foolish advice.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-29-2015 at 02:00 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    Did you NOT see the ?? in the original title?

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    What others are saying is not responsible, one can ponder theory. But until that theory is argued before the court, and the court rules, IT IS NOT CASE LAW. Suggesting that people should disobey current law because some loons want people to risk the freedom of others for their theories is not only stupid, it is against the rules of OCDO.

    You want to discuss this as a theory to brought to a court, then that is fine, to make a blatant claim is wrong, and hopefully the thread gets shutdown before some fool takes this foolish advice.
    Hence, the question and asking about it....ala theory/discussion/questions/ponder. etc. I do NOT ever recall making a "blatant claim" .. merely providing information that "OTHERS" where saying.... this is NOT my opinion, nor am I stating this opinion as fact..

    Take a chill pill and relax.......

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    States have always honored a citizens drivers license from another state.. So yes, I could see this reciprocity applying to gun permits/licenses. I think the ruling is good for folks that believe the 2A is alive and well..

    Some truck driver from out of state will get pulled over and charged with carrying a weapon here in anti NJ, then we shall see...

    My .02

    CCJ
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeesBonafide View Post
    Hence, the question and asking about it....ala theory/discussion/questions/ponder. etc. I do NOT ever recall making a "blatant claim" .. merely providing information that "OTHERS" where saying.... this is NOT my opinion, nor am I stating this opinion as fact..

    Take a chill pill and relax.......
    sorry hees, can't claim oh i just threw the articles out with ??? just to see which way the wind was blowing!!!

    so the defensive rant you posted wasn't your opinion but rather what "others are saying"? oh and others have NC chp also?

    tell ya what mate...since others say it is ok, then take your CHP with your second best firearm and visit (any order you like) NJ, DC, NYC, CHICAGO, CA and, as another member has stated ~ poorly conceal carry your second best firearm around and post back whatcha found out about how these states defined the recent ruling!

    you might be surprised to discern the idiot savant who wrote the article is full of it and is selling snake oil to cure stupid.

    bottom line mate, enjoying the discussion of what others are saying about the article?

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 06-29-2015 at 05:23 AM.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    States have always honored a citizens drivers license from another state.. So yes, I could see this reciprocity applying to gun permits/licenses. I think the ruling is good for folks that believe the 2A is alive and well..

    Some truck driver from out of state will get pulled over and charged with carrying a weapon here in anti NJ, then we shall see...

    My .02

    CCJ
    ccj, aren't the states doing so by specificly worded federal mandate under inter/intra statutes...uh not authority from a s-s marriage ruling?

    and mem serves CDLs can't carry anwhere...period!

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 06-29-2015 at 05:33 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    States have always honored a citizens drivers license from another state.. So yes, I could see this reciprocity applying to gun permits/licenses. I think the ruling is good for folks that believe the 2A is alive and well..

    Some truck driver from out of state will get pulled over and charged with carrying a weapon here in anti NJ, then we shall see...

    My .02

    CCJ
    Not exactly, it has not "always" been so and it is by agreement, not federal reciprocity. Think Iowa may have been the last to sign on back in the late 1930's.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver..._United_States
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not exactly, it has not "always" been so and it is by agreement, not federal reciprocity. Think Iowa may have been the last to sign on back in the late 1930's.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver..._United_States
    In my opinion the Federal Constitution out weights any agreement or lack thereof between the states and the SCOTUS ruling referenced in this thread will apply to gun permits/licenses in the future.. We just need to find someone to test my theory..

    My .02

    Regards

    CCJ
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeesBonafide View Post
    Hence, the question and asking about it....ala theory/discussion/questions/ponder. etc. I do NOT ever recall making a "blatant claim" .. merely providing information that "OTHERS" where saying.... this is NOT my opinion, nor am I stating this opinion as fact..

    Take a chill pill and relax.......
    The author of the article makes the blatant claim, you posted, and defend the article. Now if you want to put a disclaimer in that you do not support breaking the current law, or anyone else doing so it would help your case. But you seem unwilling to do that.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ccj, aren't the states doing so by specificly worded federal mandate under inter/intra statutes...uh not authority from a s-s marriage ruling?

    and mem serves CDLs can't carry anwhere...period!

    ipse
    There is no federal law that bans carry of firearms in CDL vehicles, or any law in NC, BUT so many of the places are posted or off limits to firearms that a driver must service it makes it damn hard to carry legally in those places.

    One of the highest paid runs I had was for the military, containers, tank tracks, and vehicles. It is illegal to take a firearm on any military base.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    In my opinion the Federal Constitution out weights any agreement or lack thereof between the states and the SCOTUS ruling referenced in this thread will apply to gun permits/licenses in the future.. We just need to find someone to test my theory..

    My .02

    Regards

    CCJ
    The problem is your opinion will not keep you out of jail. If we keep asking maybe the OP could step up and be the test case. I doubt the author of the article will.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-29-2015 at 09:41 AM.
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    It would be great if our rights were recognized accross state lines.

    This just goes to show that the homosexuals wanted special rights, not equal rights.

    I understand the argument presented for forced honoring of CCP/CWP/CPL for all of these united states though.

    I cannot afford the legal cost of being a test case. If I could I would.

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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    You may be completely correct..

    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    sorry hees, can't claim oh i just threw the articles out with ??? just to see which way the wind was blowing!!!

    so the defensive rant you posted wasn't your opinion but rather what "others are saying"? oh and others have NC chp also?

    tell ya what mate...since others say it is ok, then take your CHP with your second best firearm and visit (any order you like) NJ, DC, NYC, CHICAGO, CA and, as another member has stated ~ poorly conceal carry your second best firearm around and post back whatcha found out about how these states defined the recent ruling!

    you might be surprised to discern the idiot savant who wrote the article is full of it and is selling snake oil to cure stupid.

    bottom line mate, enjoying the discussion of what others are saying about the article?

    ipse
    I am not trying to state - "hey, lookie here -- we all have reciprocity!" I thought it was very interesting information and thought that "if" this is the case, "WOW - what a historic day indeed!" I thought that people may appreciate hearing this news, whether accurate, fiction, embellished or not. But, instead, people seem to want call me out as if "I" am the author of this article and this is my statement of fact...

    Why is it that people on this group seem to take "opposite" stance on so many posts? We are all on the same team -- how about we work together as one stop acting like step brothers: --moderator deleted--
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-29-2015 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Link content not suitable for OCDO

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeesBonafide View Post
    I am not trying to state - "hey, lookie here -- we all have reciprocity!" I thought it was very interesting information and thought that "if" this is the case, "WOW - what a historic day indeed!" I thought that people may appreciate hearing this news, whether accurate, fiction, embellished or not. But, instead, people seem to want call me out as if "I" am the author of this article and this is my statement of fact...

    Why is it that people on this group seem to take "opposite" stance on so many posts? We are all on the same team -- how about we work together as one stop acting like step brothers: --moderator deleted--
    While this is the internet and people will sometimes shoot the messenger, I don't really see that this is the case here.

    We do sometimes argue/discuss both sides of an issue in order to get all perspectives, personal attacks are to be carefully avoided.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    There is no federal law that bans carry of firearms in CDL vehicles, or any law in NC, BUT so many of the places are posted or off limits to firearms that a driver must service it makes it damn hard to carry legally in those places.

    One of the highest paid runs I had was for the military, containers, tank tracks, and vehicles. It is illegal to take a firearm on any military base.
    i concede...and learned sumthin in the process...

    http://askthetrucker.com/cdl-federal-gun-law/

    thanks WW..

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    i concede...and learned sumthin in the process...

    http://askthetrucker.com/cdl-federal-gun-law/

    thanks WW..

    ipse
    No concession needed, that is a bonus that is awarded to those that keep their mind open and receptive.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeesBonafide View Post
    I am not trying to state - "hey, lookie here -- we all have reciprocity!" I thought it was very interesting information and thought that "if" this is the case, "WOW - what a historic day indeed!" I thought that people may appreciate hearing this news, whether accurate, fiction, embellished or not. But, instead, people seem to want call me out as if "I" am the author of this article and this is my statement of fact...

    Why is it that people on this group seem to take "opposite" stance on so many posts? We are all on the same team -- how about we work together as one stop acting like step brothers: --moderator deleted--
    Actually that is exactly what you did when I questioned the author's motives. This is a snip from your response.


    My North Carolina concealed carry permit, for example, was recognized yesterday as being valid in 36 states, which just so happened to be the number of states in which gay marriage was legal yesterday. But 14 states did not recognize my concealed carry permit yesterday.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    That wasn't me

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Actually that is exactly what you did when I questioned the author's motives. This is a snip from your response.


    My North Carolina concealed carry permit, for example, was recognized yesterday as being valid in 36 states, which just so happened to be the number of states in which gay marriage was legal yesterday. But 14 states did not recognize my concealed carry permit yesterday.
    Ahh.. that explains a lot.

    That wasn't me that was stating that...that was the author of the article who stated that. That is why I used, "quotes" in my post, to try to show the conversation of what someone else wrote versus my comment.

    I hope that this clears up any possible confusion.

    btw, I don't live in NC either...

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Actually I think it's more likely for unlicensed open carry to eventually become nationalized. The fed circuit court in Colorado, if I recall correctly, stated that OC is inherent to the 2nd Amendment.
    "In sum, openly carrying a firearm outside the home is a liberty protected by the
    Second Amendment."—Judge Richard P. Matsch
    In the recent 9th circuit court ruling I think one of the court's statements were that CA had banned open carry and with the super stingy "may issue" was effectively banning conceal carry, so because of 2A they had to offer SOME kind of carry.

    Indeed it is impossible to read through the 2A and not realize the word "bear" refers to carry. My bet is eventually the SCOTUS might rule that unlicensed OC is federally protected everywhere but CC would still require licenses or be allowed to be banned as long as OC was allowed.

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