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Thread: Just was told I can't carry in St. Louis city because of ordinances?

  1. #1
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    Just was told I can't carry in St. Louis city because of ordinances?

    I was in lowes on loughborough which doesn't have no guns signs posted and a gentleman approached me and said it was illegal to carry in that municipalitie. I was under the impression that all the ordinances that were no gos before after open carry passed those ordinances didn't apply to those with cvs permits. Am I wrong?

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    He is wrong you are right. Why do you expect a stranger on the street to give you correct legal advice?

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    he was Lowes official security guard and I explained that I believe he was wrong but I'd respect it and leave cuz I'm not a ****. He also claimed he was an ex cop so he knew. I've already called into the south county police and left a message so once I get the correct answer I will make a trip up there to inform him he was wrong.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-29-2015 at 08:28 PM.

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    And likely the only worse place to get information on laws is from the police. Always remember that the police are bit required to tell you the truth.

    I don't care if he's the retired Chief of Police, his information is our of date and incorrect. If he asked you to leave you should, which should have them been followed by a call to the store manager and work your way up from there.

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    The cite your are looking for is RsMO 21.750.3(2)(a)

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    Thanks, he just asked if I would put it in the car he wasn't a dick about it. But he is uninformed. I'll print out the new statute and bring it to him (while concealing) thanks again

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Once again, an uneducated rental cop providing expert legal advice.

    My guess is, even after showing him the statute, he will not agree with you. Good luck!
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    [H]e was Lowes official security guard and I explained that I believe he was wrong but I'd respect it and leave cuz I'm not a ****. He also claimed he was an ex cop so he knew.
    See, if he'd just said that he was a trained security guard I might have believed him, but as soon as someone claims or admits to being a cop all belief in his honesty, veracity and truthfulness just goes right out the window.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-29-2015 at 08:27 PM. Reason: Edited quote

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billhamilton View Post
    he was Lowes official security guard and I explained that I believe he was wrong but I'd respect it and leave cuz I'm not a ****. He also claimed he was an ex cop so he knew. I've already called into the south county police and left a message so once I get the correct answer I will make a trip up there to inform him he was wrong.
    Do not ask police for legal advice or cites to statutes.

    Best way to handle things like this is to move up the store food chain. First to the store manager, then to the district manage if necessary - doubt it will be though.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billhamilton View Post
    he was Lowes official security guard and I explained that I believe he was wrong but I'd respect it and leave cuz I'm not a ****.
    Respecting what?

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I would imagine by the circumstances, that he means either the SG's request or demand to remove the firearm from the store proper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    I would imagine by the circumstances, that he means either the SG's request or demand to remove the firearm from the store proper.
    Ok

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Do not ask police for legal advice or cites to statutes.

    Best way to handle things like this is to move up the store food chain. First to the store manager, then to the district manage if necessary - doubt it will be though.
    Continuing.......

    Yes, Lowes is private property; however, for a long time now their corporate policy has been to honor the laws of the state in which each store is located.

    Missouri Revised Statutes
    "21.750. 1. The general assembly hereby occupies and preempts the entire field of legislation touching in any way firearms, components, ammunition and supplies to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by any political subdivision of this state. Any existing or future orders, ordinances or regulations in this field are hereby and shall be null and void except as provided in subsection 3 of this section."

    "(2) In any jurisdiction in which the open carrying of firearms is prohibited by ordinance, the open carrying of firearms shall not be prohibited in accordance with the following:

    Read the entire statute - it is short enough and has a few conditions i.e. permit
    http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/st...100007501.html
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-30-2015 at 04:30 AM. Reason: fixed
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    lowes, since it is owned by wally world corporate in reality, should do the same as wally world and follow local and state laws, the SG was wrong, if you have a CCW you can open carry pretty much everywhere.. with some minor limitations. such as government buildings for example, or schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    lowes, since it is owned by wally world corporate in reality, should do the same as wally world and follow local and state laws, the SG was wrong, if you have a CCW you can open carry pretty much everywhere.. with some minor limitations. such as government buildings for example, or schools.
    Please cite the law limiting OC in government buildings.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    lowes, since it is owned by wally world corporate in reality, should do the same as wally world and follow local and state laws, the SG was wrong, if you have a CCW you can open carry pretty much everywhere.. with some minor limitations. such as government buildings for example, or schools.
    This urban myth (read untruth) goes back years and has repeated been debunked.

    Walmart does NOT own Lowes Home Improvement stores.

    http://www.answers.com/Q/Who_owns_Lo...rt_ownes_Lowes

    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/searcy-ar/TH2EDJ9OI4I0CB9DQ/p2
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-30-2015 at 10:18 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billhamilton View Post
    he was Lowes official security guard and I explained that I believe he was wrong but I'd respect it and leave cuz I'm not a ****. He also claimed he was an ex cop so he knew. I've already called into the south county police and left a message so once I get the correct answer I will make a trip up there to inform him he was wrong.
    See that right there? The simple fact that he is an EX leo should verify his veracity. Dong ma?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    As soon as I hear, "I used to be.....", I immediately ask "Why do you need to appeal to authority?".

    I was once in Cabela's and overheard an "expert" employee explain to an inexperienced new buyer looking for a home defense gun "Check out this pistol grip shotgun. You don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general direction, and you'll hit 'em."

    When I asked him if there was something special about that particular shotgun that caused the pattern to open up in only a few feet, because the biggest room in my house is a fairly large 18 feet and I doubt either me or a burglar are going to kindly back away from each other until both our backs are against the wall. Add in 2 feet for the length of the shotgun, and that wad will have to violently explode an inch from the muzzle to open up far enough to "hit 'em without aiming".

    The clerk just looked at me and said, "I've been working here for 15 years. I'd say I'd know a bit more about firearms than you."

    I just turned to the potential buyer and said, "He's willing to bet blind without any clue about my credentials that he knows more about home defense, and he's using your safety for currency. He sounds more like a gambling salesman than an expert. Seek professional advice for your first gun purchase."

    I then walked away.

    Some folks are so enamored of their own knowledge, they don't need to compare it to anyone else's to see if there's more to learn.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billhamilton View Post
    Thanks, he just asked if I would put it in the car...
    The immediate question to ask, even though not to push your "right" to stay, is: "Oh, does that mean Lowe's is responsible for any valuables left in my car?" They need to hear that question as many times as possible.
    Last edited by MAC702; 06-30-2015 at 04:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    This urban myth (read untruth) goes back years and has repeated been debunked.

    Walmart does NOT own Lowes Home Improvement stores.

    http://www.answers.com/Q/Who_owns_Lo...rt_ownes_Lowes

    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/searcy-ar/TH2EDJ9OI4I0CB9DQ/p2
    well thanks for setting me straight grape. I wont' say it again.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot

    This urban myth (read untruth) goes back years and has repeated been debunked.

    Walmart does NOT own Lowes Home Improvement stores.

    http://www.answers.com/Q/Who_owns_Lo...rt_ownes_Lowes

    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/sear...9OI4I0CB9DQ/p2
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    well thanks for setting me straight grape. I wont' say it again.
    That rumor got started IMO because some of the Waltons are invested in Lowes, but not as majority stockholder bloc. No cite provided

    The Waltons undoubterdy have some diversity in their investment portfolio - don't know of any other with "ownership" being part of the position.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I don't know about corporate, but the Lowes here in Sanford has always welcomed my guns, and I.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-30-2015 at 08:03 PM.
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    printed out the statutes and brought them in today to the GM and the "Public safety officer" and he instantly started yelling at me I told him I'm not carrying at the moment so that's not an issue but I read him the statute about ordinances don't apply to those with valid ccw permits. And he just got angry so I asked him for the GM who came over and I explained that I have OC there many of times and never had an issue and last time I checked Lowes corporate opinion was the follow all state laws. And he agreed and said he wasn't aware the law had changed so I gave him all the paperwork and he apologized and said he will have to read up on it and check back with corporate. Which I already have a letter into. The public safety officer just was going livid and offered to have the police come to tell me I'm wrong. I told him sit the police have more important things to do than to come tell you your wrong. It all comes down to the corporate offices opinion and I will wait for my response. Home Depot welcomes my money.

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    "August 8, 2013: Lowe’s Home Improvement allows lawful firearm carry by the public."
    http://www.2acheck.com/lowes-home-improvement-rating/

    "Lowe’s abides by federal, state, and local laws regarding firearms, and will continue to do so. Our first and foremost concern is for the safety of our customers. However, we take all comments and concerns from our customers seriously. We are considerate of all customers, and take no position regarding federal, state, and local laws governing the right to carry firearms."
    See post #11:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...t-Lowes-Policy

    I doubt very seriously that there has been any change in this - we would have heard of it had there been; however, it never hurts to confirm.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Hello,
    My name is Bill Hamilton and I live in St Louis Missouri. I have been a frequent loyal customer of Lowes for over ten years. Although I recently had an altercation at your store located on Loughborough in St. Louis City. This store is not located in the safest area and being a citizen of the city I have my concealed firearm permit. The law in Missouri gives any valid permit holder to choose whether to conceal or to open carry their firearm. I am a little overweight so it is more comfortable to carry on my hip. I am by no means carrying some huge scary gun just to alarm people as I know those types exist. I have been open carrying in this store for over a year over fifty times at least. Although yesterday the stores public safety officer who in no way has any identification that he even works for Lowes approached me and told me I had to leave the store. I had just spent 45 minutes getting supplies to build a fence in my backyard. He was quite loud and spouted off about there being a city ordinance which did not allow open carry, which I kindly explained to him that although there is an ordinance the laws changed over a year ago and state that they don't apply to anyone with a valid firearms permit. He told me he was an ex police officer and I was wrong. I naturally complied and left after he embarrassed me in front of my wife and other customers and I told him I will be contacting the St. Louis police and will bring him the updated statutes of the current law. So yesterday I returned with the statutes in hand so he can be educated on the new laws. I also spoke with the GM Kyle Ayo. Kyle told me he wasn't aware that the law had changed and apologized and said he will read and review the statutes I provided. He was a gentleman and very professional unlike the public safety officer who was literally red in the face from yelling at me and refused to even look at the statutes I brought. I was under the impression that Lowes although not having an opinion on the matter followed all local and State Laws. And since there are no signs posted at any entrance that law abiding citizens would be able to carry lawfully in your stores. If you could clear this up for me I would greatly appreciate it. I am a firm believer in voting with my wallet and I truly prefer Lowes over Home Depot in almost ever aspect. But Home Depot has a clear policy that allows law abiding permit holding customers to carry in their stores. I don't want to give them my business but if I can't protect myself, my family, or my State rights I will have to shop elsewhere. I also respect personal (business) property rights and will absolutely respect your decision if it is Corporate Lowes policy against it I just will be forced to no longer shop with your business.
    Respectfully,

    Bill Hamilton

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