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Thread: New to Open carry in Wisconsin

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    New to Open carry in Wisconsin

    Hi all!

    BRAND NEW to open carry in Wisconsin. Any tips or advice ?

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    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-11-2015 at 09:39 PM. Reason: Adapted title

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    Hey nightmare - thanks! Milwaukee and Menomonee falls area.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard Timjohn90.

    Moved this to the Wisconsin sub-forum as state specific info needed.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by timjohn90 View Post
    Hi all!BRAND NEW to open carry in Wisconsin. Any tips or advice ?
    Don't OC in a school zone unless you also have a concealed carry license. By statute it's not even legal for off duty police officers to carry within 1000 feet of a school unless they have a CCL.

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    Waiting for the mail everyday. Sent in ccw paperwork

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Don't OC in a school zone unless you also have a concealed carry license. By statute it's not even legal for off duty police officers to carry within 1000 feet of a school unless they have a CCL.
    While I understand where you are going with the "off duty police officer" thing, I submit that most (all?) LEOs are never fully off duty and are charged with carrying 24/7 in many departments. Also seriously doubt that any arrest of an officer would result in a conviction holding up. This actually might be a good way to have the GFSZA of 1995 declared unconstitutional just as the 1990 act was.

    Also let's not forget the exception for private property.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    While I understand where you are going with the "off duty police officer" thing, I submit that most (all?) LEOs are never fully off duty and are charged with carrying 24/7 in many departments.
    Not true. Under Wisconsin law it depends on each departments written policies. The agency I retired from allowed (and in cases of a felony required) us to put ourselves on duty when we observed a crime in progress. After 25 years I retired and began a 2nd career with another department. This departments written policies forbid us from taking action off duty for any reason other than self defense.






    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Also let's not forget the exception for private property.
    Yes. But carrying on a posted property is not a crime like unlicensed carry in a school zone is. It's only a forfeiture.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timjohn90 View Post
    Hi all!

    BRAND NEW to open carry in Wisconsin. Any tips or advice ?

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    Read this http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ou-should-know

    Ask questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Not true. Under Wisconsin law it depends on each departments written policies. The agency I retired from allowed (and in cases of a felony required) us to put ourselves on duty when we observed a crime in progress. After 25 years I retired and began a 2nd career with another department. This departments written policies forbid us from taking action off duty for any reason other than self defense.
    That's nice but their "no action policy doesn't stop you from being a officer" there is nothing in the definition of an peace or LEO that mentions on or off duty in Wis law. If I am wrong please correct me but I can't find it.

    Law is law policy is policy, policy does not supersede the law
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 07-01-2015 at 02:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    That's nice but their "no action policy doesn't stop you from being a officer" there is nothing in the definition of an peace or LEO that mentions on or off duty in Wis law. If I am wrong please correct me but I can't find it.

    Law is law policy is policy, policy does not supersede the law

    I don't get what you're saying.

    The school zone law specifically says "a law enforcement officer acting in his/her official capacity". It does not say "peace officer".

    A cop lives or dies by his agencies written policies. Most of the time when an officer is fired it's for violating a policy. If the policy says you have no authority off duty, then you have no authority off duty. I'm not going to confront my chief with an argument about definitions. I have no desire to get involved in something off duty anyway. I like the "an off duty officer is nothing more than a witness" policy.

    I doubt a police officer would arrest an off duty cop for having his weapon in a school zone. But crazier things have happened which is why I got my CCL just to avoid something weird from happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    That's nice but their "no action policy doesn't stop you from being a officer" there is nothing in the definition of an peace or LEO that mentions on or off duty in Wis law. If I am wrong please correct me but I can't find it.

    Law is law policy is policy, policy does not supersede the law
    In Virginia there are statutes (legislature derived) and case law (from the courts). Then there are regulations which are rules established via formal procedure by state agencies - these too have the force of law and are found in the Virginia Administrative Code (VAC)
    https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/leg...xe?000+men+SRR

    You may have something similar to these agency regulations in Wisconsin.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Policy is not a regulation.

    When your sworn in as a LEO you are an LEO it doesn't stop when your off duty.

    If it did they would have to swear you in every day.

    They could have a policy saying you can't carried concealed off duty but if you did you still wouldn't be violating state law.

    If you make arrest off duty it is still an arrest the policy wouldn't void it.

    You could very well be in the dog house with the Dept. and be in violation of their policy but I really don't think it would void the arrest.

    The Dept. knows you legally can make arrest off duty other wise they wouldn't have a policy against it.

    I am a firm believer in not acting in an off duty situation unless there is no other way to avoid it. To many officers get them self into trouble doing stupid things off duty.
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    I've been OC in Northern WI for four years now. Some in southern, but mostly up north.
    No issues with LE, a couple of scattered negative comments, but mostly people don't notice or don't care. I'm married to a school district administrator so our "circle of friends" includes some of that persuasion, although most of them are hunters at least. They mostly just think I'm a little eccentric, and they might be right!!

    Really, it has not been an issue, the thumbs up and good comments, legit enquiries so outnumber the bad I call it 1000 to 4. I've only seen one other guy OC, but have had quite a few tell me they would too f they saw it more often. Ok?????

    The law changes from time to time so this might not be right. You can OC loaded in your car, but if it's on your hip behind the console, that could be considered CC. Must be reasonabky visible from outside the vehicle. The license covers that. I don't really want it loose on the dash or bouncing around in an accident.

    Our last move I made sure I could carry in my bank. Most credit unions seem to be no guns allowed. So, I carry into River Valley Bank. Usually have a nice chat with someone in there and about always get some double takes.

    I would suggest thinking at least about some possible questions you might get, and how you want to respond. I will stand and discuss it as long as someone wants to, but I won't stand around to be be badgered. Just so you don't stammer around and look like an idiot. I hate that!

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    Thanks for bringing it back on topic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Policy is not a regulation.

    When your sworn in as a LEO you are an LEO it doesn't stop when your off duty.

    If it did they would have to swear you in every day.

    They could have a policy saying you can't carried concealed off duty but if you did you still wouldn't be violating state law.

    If you make arrest off duty it is still an arrest the policy wouldn't void it.

    You could very well be in the dog house with the Dept. and be in violation of their policy but I really don't think it would void the arrest.

    The Dept. knows you legally can make arrest off duty other wise they wouldn't have a policy against it.

    I am a firm believer in not acting in an off duty situation unless there is no other way to avoid it. To many officers get them self into trouble doing stupid things off duty.
    This isn't correct. Especially when talking about making an off duty arrest outside of ones jurisdiction. The statute states the officers agency has to have a policy in place for it to be allowed.

    As far fetched as it is for them to get arrested, an off duty cop armed in a school zone without a CCL or department authorization is committing a crime. Legally your argument of "always on duty" wouldn't wash in court. There is no state law or court precedent saying it. Training & Standards doesn't say it either. Unless a peace officers employing agency says it it just aint so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    This isn't correct. Especially when talking about making an off duty arrest outside of ones jurisdiction. The statute states the officers agency has to have a policy in place for it to be allowed.

    As far fetched as it is for them to get arrested, an off duty cop armed in a school zone without a CCL or department authorization is committing a crime. Legally your argument of "always on duty" wouldn't wash in court. There is no state law or court precedent saying it. Training & Standards doesn't say it either. Unless a peace officers employing agency says it it just aint so.
    Can we stop polluting the OP's post with this?

    I am assuming he's not a LEO.

    It doesn't really matter anymore since now off-duty LEO's can carry in school zones with or without a CCL, thanks to Act 23.

    http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2015/related/acts/23

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    Well this is a great way to welcome a new person. Argue and bicker.

    I used to be in Wisconsin though La Crosse. There at least it's hit and miss. There you will see no gun signs if you look for them, unlike here in Washington that doesnt even bother. Probably because so few people bother to Open Carry.

    Pretty simple really. See a no gun sign, do not enter but rather go back when not armed, speak to management and explain why they won't be getting your money
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Well this is a great way to welcome a new person. Argue and bicker.
    We weren't arguing or bickering. We were discussing and debating. A very healthy activity when we are talking about things that could seriously trip one of us up while exercising our rights.

    I was not aware the new law regarding peace officers going armed in/on school zones was already enacted. For whatever reason I thought it was end of July.

    Like HR218 this is one of those things we have to build on. Use incrementalism like the antis do. Next we get nation wide carry for all permit/license holders. Then school zone carry for all. Then constitutional carry for all.

    It would be nice to get it all at once but we won't. I know laws like this create a privileged class, but if we build on it to eventually include all it will have value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    We weren't arguing or bickering. We were discussing and debating. A very healthy activity when we are talking about things that could seriously trip one of us up while exercising our rights.
    On a completely off topic topic. He asked about OC in Wisconsin and then people who don't live in Wisconsin and/or don't know Wisconsin laws fill up the topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    On a completely off topic topic. He asked about OC in Wisconsin and then people who don't live in Wisconsin and/or don't know Wisconsin laws fill up the topic.
    +1
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    On a completely off topic topic. He asked about OC in Wisconsin and then people who don't live in Wisconsin and/or don't know Wisconsin laws fill up the topic.
    Truly understand your points, but please consider also these:

    OCDO does not restrict users to only their home state when posting. They/we may travel to your area and often have friends and/or relatives living there. We are a large community transcending state lines. If we have muddied your waters, we apologize - that was not the intention.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The topic was complete and full with my reference to the law and its proper source. After that, all is legalism and posturing.
    LEOS never shed their uniforms. You are a LEO as long as you carry your badge, in civilian clothes. My Chief buddy crosses over to MN in civilian clothes and if he carry's his badge he can carry his gun. In fact he went to the VA in Minneapolis in uniform to see the doc and he was able to enter the VA with his gun. However we CCLers, may be not we all, complained to the legislature (was it WI Carry also?) that we don't want to be second class citizens and LEOS first class out of their uniforms. But then there is a bill that would allow us to carry on school grounds, what happened to it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    LEOS never shed their uniforms. You are a LEO as long as you carry your badge, in civilian clothes. My Chief buddy crosses over to MN in civilian clothes and if he carry's his badge he can carry his gun. In fact he went to the VA in Minneapolis in uniform to see the doc and he was able to enter the VA with his gun. However we CCLers, may be not we all, complained to the legislature (was it WI Carry also?) that we don't want to be second class citizens and LEOS first class out of their uniforms. But then there is a bill that would allow us to carry on school grounds, what happened to it?
    Sorry to nitpick but it's not the badge a LEO needs to carry, it's the agency ID card.

    I almost never carry my badge. And when I do I keep it somewhere besides my money wallet. I'd hate to be buying liquor and have someone see a badge in my wallet. They might get the wrong idea!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    But then there is a bill that would allow us to carry on school grounds, what happened to it?
    I thought when they were hammering out the CCW bill they were going to allow for people to carry in their vehicles on school grounds like when they were picking up their kids. What Bozo pol got that taken out?

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    Had Friday off, did three dog walks over the weekend on the Bearskin and around the Windmill Ice Cream Shoppe north of Tomahawk while OC. Had three seperate family units approach me wishing to pet dog, or ask questions about her. One Mother asked if I was LE, and when told no, she asked "are you sure?". I stated I was positive I was in no way any kind of law enforcement, and that was the end of it. No direct mention of a firearm was made all weekend.

    Friday and Saturday evenings there were between 100 and 200 people standing in line outside for ice cream. I was probably seen by 300 or better people over the three days, all while OC. I would guess maybe half or less noticed. I had one family of four walk off the bridge immediately after I passed them, but they never said anything, it may very well be they were just ready to leave anyway.

    The three families stood and talked, pet the dog for probably 15 minutes each. All the time there was a child or two, within 3 feet of me, pretty much eye level with my handgun. I've noticed children and people sitting down tend to notice more easily. All in all an enjoyable weekend. I walked 15-20 miles, dog probably walked/ran 3 times that. No panic, screaming, chaos, or 911 calls that bothered to show up.

    Did not go to the organized fireworks as I can not stand huge crowds of people, but we can see plenty of private fireworks all around the lake from the dock, if you can stand to be eaten by the mosquitos. Went fishing Friday night, caught a few nice crappies. All in all a great three day weekend!
    Last edited by Wstar425; 07-06-2015 at 09:42 AM.

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