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Thread: Opting out of Michigan Handgun Registration - Any comments?

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    Opting out of Michigan Handgun Registration - Any comments?

    I read with great interest Jared Coyne's article on an exemption to the requirement to register pistols under Michigan law. Here is his letter: http://www.miopencarry.org/news/2015...n-Registration

    I am curious what those of you who are well-versed in Michigan firearms law think about this.
    Last edited by OC4me; 06-30-2015 at 09:57 AM.

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    After reading a prominent gun attorney's opinion I would be leary.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Regular Member NMadole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    After reading a prominent gun attorney's opinion I would be leary.
    Link?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    After reading a prominent gun attorney's opinion I would be leary.
    Yes, link please!

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    While from all outward appearances this does seem like a great way to avoid the outdated registration process. I for one, personally don't want to be the test case scenario.

    Keeping an unregistered firearm within the confines of your home "just in case" is one thing. Carrying an unregistered firearm that belongs to you around on a daily basis is quite another.

    I do believe it is LEGAL however to "Borrow" a firearm belonging to another person from a state where no firearm registration is required if you have a MI CPL. Don't be surprised if your friend has to go to the police station with proof of purchase to get it back after they confiscate it from you.

    What happens when you run into an over zealous officer who runs the serials through the system and it comes back as non-existant? Are you going to argue with them when they try to confiscate it? How much in legal fees will it take to recover your firearm (if at all possible) and keep your butt out of jail? Worse yet, what happens if you are forced to defend yourself with it and you wind up getting arrested?

    Don't get me wrong I would like nothing better then to abolish the absurd registration requirement we currently have. I'm just not sure if this is a good "loophole" to try unless you have the resources to defend yourself. Just my humble opinion for what little it's worth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hevymetal View Post

    I do believe it is LEGAL however to "Borrow" a firearm belonging to another person from a state where no firearm registration is required if you have a MI CPL. Don't be surprised if your friend has to go to the police station with proof of purchase to get it back after they confiscate it from you.
    the word is theft. And as theft is a crime that means one is legally allowed to use all reasonable force to prevent it. Operative word being reasonable
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I can tell you for certain from being felony stopped that the Michigan registration system is a joke, they mess up all the time and don't register pistols that buyers file the paperwork for. Cops know that and if a pistol shows up unregistered on lein are likely to assume it's not the owners fault.

    It's not exactly a cutting edge activism sort of thing, especially if you don't tell everyone who will listen, because the odds of getting caught not filing an RI060 are pretty much non existent.
    Last edited by Michigander; 07-02-2015 at 07:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hevymetal View Post

    I do believe it is LEGAL however to "Borrow" a firearm belonging to another person from a state where no firearm registration is required if you have a MI CPL. Don't be surprised if your friend has to go to the police station with proof of purchase to get it back after they confiscate it from you.
    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    the word is theft. And as theft is a crime that means one is legally allowed to use all reasonable force to prevent it. Operative word being reasonable
    Huh? I find your response non-nonsensical, but then I am presuming you are somehow attempting to equate 'borrow' with 'theft', if that is the case, then how so? What exactly did you mean, please clarify.
    Last edited by OC4me; 07-02-2015 at 01:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    Huh? I find your response non-nonsensical, but then I am presuming you are somehow attempting to equate 'borrow' with 'theft', if that is the case, then how so? What exactly did you mean, please clarify.
    I think he is trying to equate "confiscate" with "theft".

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    the word is theft. And as theft is a crime that means one is legally allowed to use all reasonable force to prevent it. Operative word being reasonable
    I was referring to "Borrowing" a friend's firearm for carry purposes with his permission. If you have a CPL I do believe the registration status of your friend's "out of state" firearm you are in possession of is irrelevant and you won't be in any trouble for carrying it.

    If you were referring to my statement, don't be surprised if the police attempt to confiscate it. You may run into an anti who has no concern for the actual law and takes it from you. Yes, technically I would consider that theft on their part, however ANY force directed towards the officer on your part resisting his attempt to disarm you could get you into serious trouble or worse dead. Let them take it and sort it out with a good lawyer later. You MAY have excellent grounds for a suit after the fact if they act illegally.

    Just my humble opinion IANAL

    P.S. Also I don't believe there is any limit to the length of the duration you can be in possession of the borrowed firearm. So if your uncle/friend/brother in Arizona lets you borrow his .44 a week/year/decade ago but is still alive and can verify you borrowed it with his permission you should be legal and good to go. Now if he dies?
    Last edited by Hevymetal; 07-02-2015 at 09:20 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hevymetal View Post
    I don't believe there is any limit to the length of the duration you can be in possession of the borrowed firearm. So if your uncle/friend/brother in Arizona lets you borrow his .44 a week/year/decade ago but is still alive and can verify you borrowed it with his permission you should be legal and good to go. Now if he dies?
    I suspect that it would be considered a transfer if the uncle/friend/brother returned to Arizona without said "borrowed" .44, and transfers of a handgun between residents of different states must be done through an FFL...
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    I think the case would follow the same path that a Michigan resident having an out-of-state license to conceal had. I will cite from Michigan Attorney General Opinion #6798, changing CPL to Pistol License, aka "License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol"....

    From Opinion # 6798.... It is inconceivable that the Legislature, after crafting these statutory requirements for obtaining a (concealed) pistol license, intended to permit Michigan residents to avoid them by obtaining a (concealed) pistol license in another state that may not impose many of the Michigan requirements. That construction of the statute would result in the absurd consequence that a Michigan resident could avoid the legislatively imposed requirements for obtaining a (concealed) pistol license in Michigan by obtaining that type of license in another state without having to meet the Michigan requirements. Thus, it must be concluded that a Michigan resident with a (concealed) pistol license obtained in another state
    may not carry a (concealed) pistol in Michigan unless the resident first obtains a (concealed) pistol license in Michigan by meeting the requirements for obtaining the license imposed by Michigan law.

    The Michigan court of Appeals upheld this interpretation in COA 202126 RAYMOND J URBANIK V ATTORNEY GENERAL Opinion - Memorandum 04/03/1998 saying " “[i]t is more reasonable to assume that the exemptions in MCL 750.231a; MSA 28.248(1) are designed to apply to persons not covered by the licensing procedure in place for Michigan residents” and concluded that “the exemption in MCL 750.231a; MSA 28.428(1) does not apply to Michigan residents.”

    Last edited by DrTodd; 07-17-2015 at 05:11 PM.
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    I wouldn't want to test this, it's a distinctly risky path to take and IMO Sleasy.

    In addition I have yet to find any method to Remove a handgun from the registration database because it's been sold or traded. This means that database is so clogged with obsolete registrations that it serves no useful purpose. They probably still have registrations dating back to 1913 in the files. Can you imagine what it would be like to paw through that mess looking for one particular registration? What this is is a scheme that does nothing but appease those on the Anti side.

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