Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Norfolk Police Department

  1. #1
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Posts
    635

    Norfolk Police Department

    Unfortunately, yesterday I had an encounter between my car and a motorcycle that lead to an encounter with the Norfolk Police Department. While I could have been cited for failure to yield the right of way there were no tickets written. (I think they gave both parties a break as the biker had a learner permit and "may" have been exceeding the speed limit). The officers were very professional and while I am sure my tags were run thru the computer I was not asked if I was armed or for my CHP. As I was getting ready to get back on the road, both officers complimented me on the bumper sticker on my car (COEXIST with arms manufacturers vice religious faiths).

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,623
    Glad it worked out - hope no one was injured and the vehicles are repaired quickly and with a minimum of fuss.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Posts
    635
    luckily the biker was mostly bruised (may have a broken finger). Vehicles are easier to repair than people. My damage is just shy of $2000. Goes in on Monday and should take about a week to repair. Thanks for moving the thread. Since it didn't directly relate to Open Carry I wasn't sure where to post it.
    Last edited by wrearick; 07-02-2015 at 08:10 AM. Reason: missing word

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,623
    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    luckily the biker was mostly bruised (may have a broken finger). Vehicles are easier to repair than people. My damage is just of $2000. Goes in on Monday and should take about a week to repair. Thanks for moving the thread. Since it didn't directly relate to Open Carry I wasn't sure where to post it.
    You are a well recognized Virginia OCer and the accident and RKBA interaction with LE occurred in VA - so yes state specific, rather than General Discussion

    Hope that your vehicle is returned better than new and that the biker heals quickly and learns from his experience = riders and bikes generally lose when they try to occupy the same space as bigger objects.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    As an aside, I'd point out that almost no one understands vehicular right of way law in Virginia, because like many things, the basic law of right of way was designed by the Romans back when they were building roads across England, and survives in Virginia as one of those common law things that's not in the code. The basic law of right of way is, "first come, first served." Everything that's in the Code is an exception; you do have to know all the exceptions and how they interrelate, and that's a job in itself. The exceptions came when we started using motorized contraptions that can't be expected to stop on a dime and give you nine cents change. So don't make assumptions about who had or did not have the right of way. Btw, the cops almost always charge the wrong person, because they don't understand it, either.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,161
    Thank you; from a right of way bicyclist, sometimes in Virginia.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Just be thankful it happened before 1 July 2015. The new law went into effect that requires that you remain three feet away from a cyclist at all times.

    I'm pretty sure that goes for when you run them over, too.

    Old (as in seasoned) street cop shared his way of looking at who had the right of way: hits in front of your A-pillar mean the other guy had the right of way. Hits behind your A-pillar mean you had the right of way. It at least gave consistency to how he handed out citations.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  8. #8
    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    NO VA, ,
    Posts
    355
    While not OC related, still needs to be said:
    According to the OP, it was a motorcycle not a bicycle. Be glad you're not dealing with the aftermath of a fatality.
    If I had a dollar for everytime a vehicle ran me out of my lane, including the clown that took me out at an intersection, and used the excuse "He didn't see me", I'd be a wealthy man.
    I ride a HD full dresser (5 lights on the front, and 6 lights on to the rear) with aftermarket pipes. I am NOT that hard to notice IF YOU LOOK.
    "He must have been speeding" is the 2nd most uttered cop-out.
    It seems to happen more often lately as folks that CLAIM they can multi-task while piloting a 3,000 guided missile down a highway while distracted by electronic toys, CAN'T do it safely.

    http://isddc.dot.gov/OLPFiles/NHTSA/013695.pdf
    1.3 Research Findings
    The most common motorcycle accident involves another vehicle causing the
    collision by violating the right-of-way of the motorcycle at an intersection,
    usually by turning left in front of the oncoming motorcycle because the car
    driver did not see the motorcycle.
    Assault Weapon (N) “Any firearm whose design disturbs the sleep of progressive politicians.”.

  9. #9
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Posts
    635
    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhead View Post
    While not OC related, still needs to be said:
    According to the OP, it was a motorcycle not a bicycle. Be glad you're not dealing with the aftermath of a fatality.
    If I had a dollar for everytime a vehicle ran me out of my lane, including the clown that took me out at an intersection, and used the excuse "He didn't see me", I'd be a wealthy man.
    I ride a HD full dresser (5 lights on the front, and 6 lights on to the rear) with aftermarket pipes. I am NOT that hard to notice IF YOU LOOK.
    "He must have been speeding" is the 2nd most uttered cop-out.
    It seems to happen more often lately as folks that CLAIM they can multi-task while piloting a 3,000 guided missile down a highway while distracted by electronic toys, CAN'T do it safely.
    I am very thankful not to be dealing with the aftermath of a fatality. I can say with absolute certainty there were no electronic toys in the equation. Turns out he made a left from across the median about 50 yards further up the road from the street I entered from...may have contributed but I had the responsibility and the opportunity to see him, and I did not. Not sure if I target locked on the sole vehicle approaching from the left and pulled out as he passed me (failing to make one last check that the situation behind him had not changed) but also I could have prevented the situation if I had turned into the right hand lane, steadied up and then changed lanes to the left hand lane. I did not and the responsibility is mine.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    NO VA, ,
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    I am very thankful not to be dealing with the aftermath of a fatality. I can say with absolute certainty there were no electronic toys in the equation.
    And sometimes it's the Crotch Rocket rider or wanna-be 1%er weaving in and out of cars at twice the posted speed limit and/or doing wheelies.
    And sometimes "Poop" happens.
    Thank you for being one of those "Cage" drivers that care.
    Assault Weapon (N) “Any firearm whose design disturbs the sleep of progressive politicians.”.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    As an aside, I'd point out that almost no one understands vehicular right of way law in Virginia, because like many things, the basic law of right of way was designed by the Romans back when they were building roads across England, and survives in Virginia as one of those common law things that's not in the code. The basic law of right of way is, "first come, first served." Everything that's in the Code is an exception; you do have to know all the exceptions and how they interrelate, and that's a job in itself. The exceptions came when we started using motorized contraptions that can't be expected to stop on a dime and give you nine cents change. So don't make assumptions about who had or did not have the right of way. Btw, the cops almost always charge the wrong person, because they don't understand it, either.
    Years ago, my history teacher pointed out that in VA nobody has the right of way: everybody in the statutes is yielding the right of way to somebody else. I filed it away under the "teacher said it so it must be true" category.

    Then, a few years ago, I had the opportunity to do a little checking. Darned if the statutes I checked didn't all say who is supposed to be yielding the right of way, without saying the other guy had the right of way.

    Except funerals. It came up in the news some months ago. Apparently funeral processions can apply for and receive a dispensation to have the right of way. I vaguely recall looking up the statute and saying, "well, I'll be darned", but I couldn't tell you what the statute said anymore.

    And, if I recall, the statute about four-way-stops allows the driver on the right to proceed, but only when it is safe to do so. Got nothing to do with whether the guy on the left had the right or way or not, or whether the guy on the left yielded the right of way or not.

    So, I'm less saying I've got contradictory info, than I'm kinda trying to integrate your comment about first-come, first-served with pre-existing observations. Are you basically saying second-come is generally supposed to be yielding the right of way to first-come? That's the only thing I can figure.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-02-2015 at 08:44 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    492

    Right of way

    Duh, don't yuall know that the truck with the biggest tires has the right of way?? sheesh. ;-)

    roN

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by 6L6GC View Post
    Duh, don't yuall know that the truck with the biggest tires has the right of way?? sheesh. ;-)

    roN
    In DC there are almost three dozen law enforcement agencies with jurisdiction, as well as about six fire and eight (IIRC) EMS agencies (not counting private providers) that all are authorized to use lights & sirens. If all of them are rolling Code 3 towards the same intersection, how do you know who has the right of way?

    It's the mail truck. Bet you didn't know that "neither sleet nor snow" stuff was for real.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,623
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    In DC there are almost three dozen law enforcement agencies with jurisdiction, as well as about six fire and eight (IIRC) EMS agencies (not counting private providers) that all are authorized to use lights & sirens. If all of them are rolling Code 3 towards the same intersection, how do you know who has the right of way?

    It's the mail truck. Bet you didn't know that "neither sleet nor snow" stuff was for real.

    stay safe.
    Yep, sure did know that.

    Do fee mail (femail?) trucks, contract carriers of snail mail, enjoy the same condition? Does that privilege extend to airplanes carrying USPS goods only? Does the on foot mail carrier have right of way over vehicles in the street? What happens when both vehicles are USPS? So many questions, no easy answers.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Yep, sure did know that.

    Do fee mail (femail?) trucks, contract carriers of snail mail, enjoy the same condition? Does that privilege extend to airplanes carrying USPS goods only? Does the on foot mail carrier have right of way over vehicles in the street? What happens when both vehicles are USPS? So many questions, no easy answers.
    Lysander Spooner had an easy answer: competition. The American Letter Mail Company. 1840's. The fedgov or USPS couldn't stand the fact that somebody else could deliver the letters for less, and used the courts to drive him out of business. All of which is to say, the questions only arise, and the answers are only hard, because of an artificial market condition created by the government.

    One can learn a little bit about the case at Wikipedia. Google returns give more threads to follow. Best is to look into Spooner himself. Quite a guy.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    NO VA, ,
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    In DC there are almost three dozen law enforcement agencies with jurisdiction, as well as about six fire and eight (IIRC) EMS agencies (not counting private providers) that all are authorized to use lights & sirens. If all of them are rolling Code 3 towards the same intersection, how do you know who has the right of way?

    It's the mail truck. Bet you didn't know that "neither sleet nor snow" stuff was for real.

    stay safe.
    Or the gyro-copter.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gyrocopter.jpg 
Views:	59 
Size:	68.0 KB 
ID:	12628  
    Assault Weapon (N) “Any firearm whose design disturbs the sleep of progressive politicians.”.

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,623
    Spooner was a lot of things. Not all of which were acceptable - depending on who you were.

    Insofar as competing with the P.O., Spooner was forked...........did I just say that? My bad.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,885
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    In DC there are almost three dozen law enforcement agencies with jurisdiction, as well as about six fire and eight (IIRC) EMS agencies (not counting private providers) that all are authorized to use lights & sirens. If all of them are rolling Code 3 towards the same intersection, how do you know who has the right of way?

    It's the mail truck. Bet you didn't know that "neither sleet nor snow" stuff was for real.

    stay safe.
    very very good friend (former LE btw) pointed that fact out to me many years ago and i was immediately and dully impressed at the power of the lowly mail person i just smile at every day.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Spooner was a lot of things. Not all of which were acceptable - depending on who you were.

    Insofar as competing with the P.O., Spooner was forked...........did I just say that? My bad.
    Well, that was helpful to readers. Or, was this just a drive-by comment intended to plant a seed of doubt about the man without really substantiating it?

    Got any facts or explanation for that vague invalidation?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,623
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Well, that was helpful to readers. Or, was this just a drive-by comment intended to plant a seed of doubt about the man without really substantiating it?

    Got any facts or explanation for that vague invalidation?
    Really not necessary and see no reason to carry this thread further off topic with gamemanship.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •