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Thread: Happy Birthday USA - 4th of July

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Happy Birthday USA - 4th of July

    John Wayne gave this rendition with a host of other stars back in 1970 - give a listen.

    http://biggeekdad.com/2014/09/john-w...JXVfNNJ8.email

    Note that no negative comments will be allowed on this thread. They will be deleted. This thread is entirely about the people celebrating where we live and what we are. You have something adverse to say, get your own thread.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    You would never get that many people from Hollywood together today.

    Patriots are few and far between there now.


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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Note that no negative comments will be allowed on this thread. They will be deleted. This thread is entirely about the people celebrating where we live and what we are. You have something adverse to say, get your own thread.
    You wouldn't not allow a double negative, would you?
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Happy secession day!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Happy Birthday 'Merica
    Advocate freedom please

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    Independence Day! Even Baghdad has a Fourth of July. Kinda like Cinco de Mayo for the maroons.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    I <3 celebrating when terrorists win!

    Revolution rulz!
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    My favorite part of the Declaration of Independence is in the second paragraph:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident...To secure these rights governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." (emphasis by Citizen)

    Its almost as though Jefferson and the signers were pointing the way to the next step in the evolution beyond compulsory government: government genuinely based on consent.

    I went for years without realizing the implication of that phrase about consent in the Declaration: consent, to be true, would have to mean the individual being governed consented to be governed. And, it would have to be real consent; not acquiescence, not voting defensively, not taken as implied by voting, not taken as implied by not moving to another country, but the real genuine article--totally voluntary consent freely given.

    Another angle struck me, too. Why bother with consent? Why did Jefferson include it? Why did Locke?* It dovetails with "all men are created equal". If you and I are equal, I cannot possibly rule you legitimately without your consent. Lacking your personal consent, the only way I could justify ruling you is by setting myself above you, or setting you below me. If you and I are equals, I have no more standing to tell you what to do than you I. No amount of excuse or rationalization can explain that away: if I govern you without first obtaining your actual, genuine consent, then I cannot possibly also believe you and I are equal. I must unbalance the equality or excuse away somehow, some way, my rule over you. Equality necessitates consent. Rule without genuine, true consent necessarily means I don't really consider you my equal.


    *The ideas about unalienable rights, equality, and consent of the governed in the Declaration of Independence actually come from John Locke's Second Treatise on Government, 1689. In a couple places, the text of the Declaration is verbatim Locke. Thomas Jefferson was not plagiarizing when he wrote the Declaration. The ideas were some 85 years old by the time Jefferson used them. The ideas had permeated English culture and political thought. Years after the Declaration, John Adams remarked that the language in the second paragraph was trite. How does a saying become trite? By being used a lot. How does it come to be used a lot? Lots of people use it.

    Now for the really cool part. Among Thomas Jefferson's personal papers is an invoice for some books he ordered from England. Listed on that invoice is a copy of John Locke's Second Treatise. So, while Jefferson probably learned about The Second Treatise years earlier in college, historians actually have hard evidence of Locke's influence on Jefferson. Historians can prove that Jefferson owned a copy of Second Treatise.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-03-2015 at 12:02 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    In the midst of hamburgers, hot dogs, steak, potato salad, ice cream, and of course fireworks, take time to acknowledge that your freedom was earned the hard way....and it wasn't free. Give thanks to those that contributed so that you, we, us could be here and enjoy this country.

    One of my favorite productions about the Revolutionary War period is The Crossing (Washington and his troops, Delaware, middle of the winter), originally shown on HBO, I think in 2 parts. It might still be avaiable.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Citizen

    My favorite part of the Declaration of Independence is in the second paragraph:

    "We hold these rights to be self-evident...To secure these rights governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." (emphasis by Citizen)...snip
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    That is your favorite part? Really? I'd hate to see a quote of yours from some other part that you don't particularly care for. You have misquoted (your favorite part of) the Declaration of Independence!! The second paragraph begins with, "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."(emphasis by gutshot).
    QFT - nice catch gutshot
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    That is your favorite part? Really? I'd hate to see a quote of yours from some other part that you don't particularly care for. You have misquoted (your favorite part of) the Declaration of Independence!! The second paragraph begins with, "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."(emphasis by gutshot).
    <chuckle>

    Thanks for catching that. I'll correct it. Shows what happens when your fingers are typing one part while your mind is running ahead to the next.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-03-2015 at 12:03 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Wait a second, it should be "Happy Birthday Confederate States of America."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articl...f_closing_down
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 07-03-2015 at 12:26 AM.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Wait a second, it should be "Happy Birthday Confederate States of America."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articl...f_closing_down
    Good point. The Declaration of Independence marks the separation from England. The US was born with ratification of the constitution by the (ninth?) state in 1788.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-03-2015 at 12:47 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Good point. The Declaration of Independence marks the separation from England. The US was born with ratification of the constitution by the (ninth?) state in 1788.
    Always thought that was merely the latest (3rd??) iteration. The same folks at the same stand doing the same thing, just under different trade names.

    Or do you signify the start of 7 UP (1936) only from when they changed the name from the 1929-introduced Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda?

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Wait a second, it should be "Happy Birthday Confederate States of America."
    The Confederate States of America, the CSA, was born, formed, 4 February 1861, and its constitution adopted the following 11 March.

    A comparison of the two constitutions is illustrative of the tensions that still exist among the people, the Fedgov, the stereotype of southern culture and Dixie.

    The Confederate Constitution, June 1, 1992 Randall G. Holcombe, mises.org, The Free Market 10, no. 6 (June 1992)
    https://mises.org/library/confederate-constitution
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The style of this confederacy shall be 'The United States of America.From the articles of confederation.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The style of this confederacy shall be 'The United States of America.From the articles of confederation.
    The Articles of Confederation Nov. 15, 1777

    To all to whom these Presents shall come, we the undersigned Delegates of the States affixed to our Names send greeting.

    Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the states of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia.

    I.The Stile of this Confederacy shall be "The United States of America".
    [ ... ]
    http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/artconf.shtml


    It's kinda difficult to find a misspelled word.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-03-2015 at 09:23 AM.
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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    I wish America had a good system of public education, instead of a good system of indoctrination.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Charlie Daniels Celebrates Our Nation's Birthday: My Beautiful America

    http://cnsnews.com/commentary/charli...utiful-america




    Charlie Daniels is a legendary American singer, song writer, guitarist, and fiddler famous for his contributions to country and southern rock music. Daniels has been active as a singer since the early 1950s. He was inducted into the Grand Ole Opry on January 24, 2008.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    I wish America had a good system of public education, instead of a good system of indoctrination.
    We had a good system of public education back in the days of testing, failures and dropouts. Now parent controlled private/homeschool is required to avoid creche indoctrination and self-esteem injection. In the good old days self-esteem was acquired the old fashioned way, by earning it with hard work.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Happy Birthday USA - 4th of July

    I liked reading about all of the towns between Mt Vernon and Elizabeth NJ decorating bridges, sending out honor guards and all of the people standing next to the road to see Geo Washington pass by. Must have been stirring occasion to see the dream realized. Then the task to put the 'idea' of a government into motion - what a daunting task!

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    Last edited by HPmatt; 07-04-2015 at 07:45 AM.
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    I wish America had a good system of public education, instead of a good system of indoctrination.
    The only way America can have a good system of education is for it to be privatized and no longer a government institution.

    Happy Independence Day!
    Advocate freedom please

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    This should be read aloud in every home and gathering of Free People in this Country on this day.


    https://www.firearmspolicy.org/news/...e63f-116844053

    IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The style of this confederacy shall be 'The United States of America.From the articles of confederation.
    Oh, that was sneaky. I was about to demand a cite and link, then realized the forum rule is silent about old laws no longer in effect.



    Just a general interest point. A number of readers might not know, but at the time of the founding, the words confederacy and federation meant the same thing. At that time, nobody would have made a distinction between a federal system and a confederacy.

    But, the US constitution introduced a new wrinkle. A federation or confederation was an alliance between sovereign states. The constitution set up a central government that really wasn't a federation. Thus, the meaning of the word federal shifted a bit to be applied to the US system. If you poke around into this subject a little bit, you'll start to understand why there was so much arguing about the powers of the US central government vs state sovereignty in the early days of the republic, the arguments about secession of northern states before the civil war, the southern states at the civil war, and coming forward to even today.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-04-2015 at 12:55 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    This should be read aloud in every home and gathering of Free People in this Country on this day.


    https://www.firearmspolicy.org/news/...e63f-116844053

    IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
    What I like is the non capitalization of United....meaning it wasn't a title of a single entity but sovereign entities united in a goal.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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