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Happy Birthday USA - 4th of July

TheRock

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You would never get that many people from Hollywood together today.

Patriots are few and far between there now.


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Dave_pro2a

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Note that no negative comments will be allowed on this thread. They will be deleted. This thread is entirely about the people celebrating where we live and what we are. You have something adverse to say, get your own thread.

You wouldn't not allow a double negative, would you?
 

Citizen

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My favorite part of the Declaration of Independence is in the second paragraph:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident...To secure these rights governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." (emphasis by Citizen)

Its almost as though Jefferson and the signers were pointing the way to the next step in the evolution beyond compulsory government: government genuinely based on consent.

I went for years without realizing the implication of that phrase about consent in the Declaration: consent, to be true, would have to mean the individual being governed consented to be governed. And, it would have to be real consent; not acquiescence, not voting defensively, not taken as implied by voting, not taken as implied by not moving to another country, but the real genuine article--totally voluntary consent freely given.

Another angle struck me, too. Why bother with consent? Why did Jefferson include it? Why did Locke?* It dovetails with "all men are created equal". If you and I are equal, I cannot possibly rule you legitimately without your consent. Lacking your personal consent, the only way I could justify ruling you is by setting myself above you, or setting you below me. If you and I are equals, I have no more standing to tell you what to do than you I. No amount of excuse or rationalization can explain that away: if I govern you without first obtaining your actual, genuine consent, then I cannot possibly also believe you and I are equal. I must unbalance the equality or excuse away somehow, some way, my rule over you. Equality necessitates consent. Rule without genuine, true consent necessarily means I don't really consider you my equal.


*The ideas about unalienable rights, equality, and consent of the governed in the Declaration of Independence actually come from John Locke's Second Treatise on Government, 1689. In a couple places, the text of the Declaration is verbatim Locke. Thomas Jefferson was not plagiarizing when he wrote the Declaration. The ideas were some 85 years old by the time Jefferson used them. The ideas had permeated English culture and political thought. Years after the Declaration, John Adams remarked that the language in the second paragraph was trite. How does a saying become trite? By being used a lot. How does it come to be used a lot? Lots of people use it.

Now for the really cool part. Among Thomas Jefferson's personal papers is an invoice for some books he ordered from England. Listed on that invoice is a copy of John Locke's Second Treatise. So, while Jefferson probably learned about The Second Treatise years earlier in college, historians actually have hard evidence of Locke's influence on Jefferson. Historians can prove that Jefferson owned a copy of Second Treatise.
 
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Grapeshot

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In the midst of hamburgers, hot dogs, steak, potato salad, ice cream, and of course fireworks, take time to acknowledge that your freedom was earned the hard way....and it wasn't free. Give thanks to those that contributed so that you, we, us could be here and enjoy this country.

One of my favorite productions about the Revolutionary War period is The Crossing (Washington and his troops, Delaware, middle of the winter), originally shown on HBO, I think in 2 parts. It might still be avaiable.

 

Grapeshot

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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Citizen

My favorite part of the Declaration of Independence is in the second paragraph:

"We hold these rights to be self-evident...To secure these rights governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." (emphasis by Citizen)...snip
That is your favorite part? Really? I'd hate to see a quote of yours from some other part that you don't particularly care for. You have misquoted (your favorite part of) the Declaration of Independence!! The second paragraph begins with, "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."(emphasis by gutshot).
QFT - nice catch gutshot
icon14.png
 

Citizen

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That is your favorite part? Really? I'd hate to see a quote of yours from some other part that you don't particularly care for. You have misquoted (your favorite part of) the Declaration of Independence!! The second paragraph begins with, "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."(emphasis by gutshot).

<chuckle>

Thanks for catching that. I'll correct it. Shows what happens when your fingers are typing one part while your mind is running ahead to the next.
 
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skidmark

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Good point. The Declaration of Independence marks the separation from England. The US was born with ratification of the constitution by the (ninth?) state in 1788.

Always thought that was merely the latest (3rd??) iteration. The same folks at the same stand doing the same thing, just under different trade names.

Or do you signify the start of 7 UP (1936) only from when they changed the name from the 1929-introduced Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda?

stay safe.
 

Dave_pro2a

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I wish America had a good system of public education, instead of a good system of indoctrination.
 

Grapeshot

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Charlie Daniels Celebrates Our Nation's Birthday: My Beautiful America

http://cnsnews.com/commentary/charl...tes-our-nations-birthday-my-beautiful-america


picture-994-1430428572.jpg


Charlie Daniels is a legendary American singer, song writer, guitarist, and fiddler famous for his contributions to country and southern rock music. Daniels has been active as a singer since the early 1950s. He was inducted into the Grand Ole Opry on January 24, 2008.
 

HPmatt

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I liked reading about all of the towns between Mt Vernon and Elizabeth NJ decorating bridges, sending out honor guards and all of the people standing next to the road to see Geo Washington pass by. Must have been stirring occasion to see the dream realized. Then the task to put the 'idea' of a government into motion - what a daunting task!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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stealthyeliminator

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Dec 29, 2008
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I wish America had a good system of public education, instead of a good system of indoctrination.

The only way America can have a good system of education is for it to be privatized and no longer a government institution.

Happy Independence Day!
 

MSG Laigaie

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This should be read aloud in every home and gathering of Free People in this Country on this day.


https://www.firearmspolicy.org/news...il&utm_term=0_4196dc23eb-03727ee63f-116844053

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
 

Citizen

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The style of this confederacy shall be 'The United States of America.From the articles of confederation.

Oh, that was sneaky. :) I was about to demand a cite and link, then realized the forum rule is silent about old laws no longer in effect. :)



Just a general interest point. A number of readers might not know, but at the time of the founding, the words confederacy and federation meant the same thing. At that time, nobody would have made a distinction between a federal system and a confederacy.

But, the US constitution introduced a new wrinkle. A federation or confederation was an alliance between sovereign states. The constitution set up a central government that really wasn't a federation. Thus, the meaning of the word federal shifted a bit to be applied to the US system. If you poke around into this subject a little bit, you'll start to understand why there was so much arguing about the powers of the US central government vs state sovereignty in the early days of the republic, the arguments about secession of northern states before the civil war, the southern states at the civil war, and coming forward to even today.
 
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