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Thread: Police take to social media to warn about 'faux gun' cell phone case

  1. #1
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Police take to social media to warn about 'faux gun' cell phone case

    Why has a cell phone case been causing a stir on social media, lately? According to some law enforcement officials, a case that looks like a gun is a dangerous product.

    and then

    We strongly recommend that you do not use this product both for your own safety and the safety of law enforcement officers.

    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/07/...cmp=latestnews
    Not my cup of tea.
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    Doesn't seem to smart to me.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    How does it affect officer safety?

    The only worry I have about it is being shot/killled over it.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    "It could force a police officer to open fire", said the broadcaster.

    It doesn't take much (apparently)...heh.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cops
    ...We strongly recommend that you do not use this product both for your own safety and the safety of law enforcement officers.
    Because cell phone cameras have ended quite a few cop careers.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I think it is quite a stupid idea in the current social, political and policing environment.

    But beyond that, looking at the pictures, it is really really stupid because the case encourages developing muscle memory to immediately put one's finger on the trigger upon touching a gun.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Looks like a good way to be a candidate for a Darwin Award.

  10. #10
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    Yeah stupid.
    In VA I imagine you'd be convicted of brandishing if seen holding it up to your ear to take a call.
    Officer safety? I don't see that as an issue. Well maybe if the cop shoots and misses the perp and hits another cop.
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    “This cell phone case is a terrible idea,” the police department [New Jersey State Police] wrote on its Facebook page. “Officers do not have the luxury of time when making split-second decisions, while interacting with the public. We strongly recommend that you do not use this product both for your own safety and the safety of law enforcement officers.”
    Think through on that comment, readers.

    Compare to the elements of justified lethal force--ability, opportunity, and jeopardy/intent (AOJ).

    What has luxury got to do with it? Why is the writer not explaining how such a phone held to the ear, or "dialed" or "texted" does or does not meet AOJ?
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-02-2015 at 09:05 PM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    They just had a bunch of Washington cops talking about this on the news.It pretty much sounded like if we think you have a gun we might kill you.Could have easily been talking about OC.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
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  13. #13
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Think through on that comment, readers.

    Compare to the elements of justified lethal force--ability, opportunity, and jeopardy/intent (AOJ).

    What has luxury got to do with it? Why is the writer not explaining how such a phone held to the ear, or "dialed" or "texted" does or does not meet AOJ?
    It's crazy that there are so many legitimate criticisms for use of this sort of phone case/object, yet the police still manage to come up with terrible, moronic lines of reasoning/statements to oppose its use.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 07-02-2015 at 09:23 PM.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    They just had a bunch of Washington cops talking about this on the news.It pretty much sounded like if we think you have a gun we might kill you.Could have easily been talking about OC.
    I was kinda suspecting such phones would mean they would actually have to stop and evaluate an encounter by comparing to AOJ (ability, opportunity, jeopardy/intent--the elements of justified lethal force.) Such police complaints just say, in so many words, "we want to be able to shoot without actually having to stop, look, and evaluate." These phones would tend to put a crimp in the too-often offered generic explanation that the officer felt in fear for his life. If these phones become a little bit common-place, those particular police who would otherwise just shoot would have to do what the rest of us have to do--actually apply AOJ.

    Such argument of course is nonsense. Some cops really can't tell when somebody is holding their "gun" to their ear, and talking into it? Or, texting on it?

    Or, are they really just opposed to something making their job harder, because, now, for example, in Washington DC, they can't just assume anybody with a "gun" sticking out of their pocket is a criminal? Uh-oh. There went their automatic RAS.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    It's crazy that there are so many legitimate criticisms for use of this sort of phone case/object, yet the police still manage to come up with terrible, moronic lines of reasoning/statements to oppose its use.
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I was kinda suspecting such phones would mean they would actually have to stop and evaluate an encounter by comparing to AOJ (ability, opportunity, jeopardy/intent--the elements of justified lethal force.) Such police complaints just say, in so many words, "we want to be able to shoot without actually having to stop, look, and evaluate." These phones would tend to put a crimp in the too-often offered generic explanation that the officer felt in fear for his life. If these phones become a little bit common-place, those particular police who would otherwise just shoot would have to do what the rest of us have to do--actually apply AOJ.Such argument of course is nonsense. Some cops really can't tell when somebody is holding their "gun" to their ear, and talking into it? Or, texting on it?Or, are they really just opposed to something making their job harder, because, now, for example, in Washington DC, they can't just assume anybody with a "gun" sticking out of their pocket is a criminal? Uh-oh. There went their automatic RAS.
    That does really seem to be the underlying rationalization.Interesting thing is maybe as an unintended side effect if these cases become popular it would help normalize OC and further rights in a weird round about way.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    +1 That does really seem to be the underlying rationalization.Interesting thing is maybe as an unintended side effect if these cases become popular it would help normalize OC and further rights in a weird round about way.
    And, I would have to get a T-shirt that says "Its Not A Phone".
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Wouldn't the police use of "social media" in a case like this also contaminate potential jurors if/when this goes to trial?
    Wouldn't that be to the benefit of the defense? Who is more likely to be a party to the defense if something goes wrong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Wouldn't the police use of "social media" in a case like this also contaminate potential jurors if/when this goes to trial?
    Oh, I don't know. I think that could cut both ways. I can see a good plaintiff's attorney using it to support the argument that the police department had a pattern of conduct...
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    "It could force a police officer to open fire", said the broadcaster.
    It doesn't take much (apparently)...heh.
    Wai... you mean it looks like a leashed dog inside a fenced yard??

  20. #20
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    They just had a bunch of Washington cops talking about this on the news.It pretty much sounded like if we think you have a gun we might kill you.Could have easily been talking about OC.
    What that could mean is 'if we think you have a gun we might kill you...and get away with it - via an administrative vacation then back on the job'.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    What that could mean is 'if we think you have a gun we might kill you...and get away with it - via an administrative vacation then back on the job'.
    Sounds like premeditated murder on their part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Sounds like premeditated murder on their part.

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    I don't know that I could characterize quite that way.



    But, I do hope somebody in that media market is recording all the police comments for later use in court, especially such comments by police supervisors and press-relations officers--the comments that would ordinarily need official department authorization and so forth.

    And, when I think about it, I don't think one would have to wait for a faux-gun phone user to get shot. The same police attitudes can be applied to anybody they shoot, even a criminal who didn't really need shooting. It doesn't really matter why the police diverge from using AOJ; its that they diverge from it. And, some of the comments are tending to show they already don't follow AOJ (otherwise, why are they not applying AOJ analysis to phone-guns?)
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-03-2015 at 03:33 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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