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Thread: Chesterfield Observer opinion piece

  1. #1
    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    Chesterfield Observer opinion piece

    I'm interested in hearing analysis of the article and the facts and laws referenced therein.
    http://www.chesterfieldobserver.com/...pack_heat.html
    My opinion is it could have easily been written by an MDA type. I noticed they talked about gun rights supporters but failed to talk to any. It did not escape my observation that the typical knee-jerk reaction to a gun law that failed to save lives can only be "bettered" by making more gun laws.
    Last edited by Liberty-or-Death; 07-03-2015 at 11:42 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    I'm interested in hearing analysis of the article and the facts and laws referenced therein.
    I'll show you mine if you show me yours first.

    Barring that, I'll share mine on receipt of my standard $100,000.00 fee for legal analysis. (That ought to cover the fines and expenses of defending myself against a charge of practicing law without a license.)

    And how come lawyers and doctors get to charge money for practicing. Heck, we have to demonstrate minimum competency to drive a car unless we want to keep getting Learners Permits. Musicians practice before they step in front of a paying audience. Baseball players take batting practice before the game begins - once the umpire calls "Play ball!" they are doing it for real.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I'll show you mine if you show me yours first.

    Barring that, I'll share mine on receipt of my standard $100,000.00 fee for legal analysis. (That ought to cover the fines and expenses of defending myself against a charge of practicing law without a license.)

    And how come lawyers and doctors get to charge money for practicing. Heck, we have to demonstrate minimum competency to drive a car unless we want to keep getting Learners Permits. Musicians practice before they step in front of a paying audience. Baseball players take batting practice before the game begins - once the umpire calls "Play ball!" they are doing it for real.

    stay safe.
    Because most of the individuals in the 2 professions mentioned DON'T HAVE A CLUE, and as such never get past the practice stage!

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Because most of the individuals in the 2 professions mentioned DON'T HAVE A CLUE, and as such never get past the practice stage!
    Ah soo, but they are professional practitioners - they get paid even when they are wrong or make mistakes.....yes?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Trying (not too hard) to get on track - wonder if the drive-by poster had any opinion on the matter before he asked us to give him one.

    I don't mind sharing and comparing opinions. As much as I know that if I give someone my opinion to hold as their own they will then also be right* about the issue, I do not like it when they don't come out and say "I don't know what to think about this because .... Help me figure out what to think about it".

    stay safe.

    * - I'm never wrong. There are times I may be less right than other people.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    Please please forgive such a brief post, I was busy and didn't want to forget to ask about it, thought I'd come back later, read and talk more, maybe edit the OP, and so now I have.

    I don't like it when motives are second guessed in this 2D world, but understand it happens. Luckily, no one is responsible for what I don't like but me.
    Last edited by Liberty-or-Death; 07-03-2015 at 06:56 AM.
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  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Let us start at the beginning:

    Va. one of few states to allow domestic abusers to keep guns
    Where/what/why are domestic abusers in other states not allowed to keep guns?

    Wikipedia is as good a place as any to startt from:

    The Domestic Violence Offender Gun Ban often called "the Lautenberg Amendment" ("Gun Ban for Individuals Convicted of a Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence", Pub.L. 104–208,[1] 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9)[2]) is an amendment to the Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act of 1997 enacted by the 104th United States Congress in 1996, which bans access to firearms by people convicted of crimes of domestic violence. The act is often referred to as "the Lautenberg Amendment"
    Go search the Code of Virginia of 1950, As Amended. Find a law that prohibits "domestic violence".

    I'll save you the time and trouble - there isn't one. "Domestic violence" is not a crime in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Go here (the new and improved site) http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode and search for the term "spousal abuse" [obviously without the quotation marks]. What do you get? Let me save you the time doping it yourself - you get nada. Zilch. Zip. Try it again with the search term "Domestic Violence". Any success with that? Nope!

    So while we may "know" what the Lautenberg Amendment is talking about, the truth of the matter is that it just flat does not apply in Virginia. Another one of those cases where legal construction holds that the legislative body must have known what it was doing when it chose the words to describe what they were talking about or else they would have written something else.

    I'm going to let you look up the bills the article discusses. Then think about stripping a person of an enumerated Constitution right for the conviction of a misdemeanor offense, and how even the Virginia General Assembly responded to that notion.

    Screw
    "Opposition to changing the law, she said, seems to stem in part from the General Assembly’s “sense that firearms are part of a basic human right,” even for those who have demonstrated violent tendencies toward family members.

    That’s also the sense of groups that have opposed those bills.
    If Lautenberg wanted to strip away rights "properly" and "correctly" he could have created a federal felony offense of "domestic violence" and let the federal courts get tied up in prosecuting those cases. Instead, he took a shortcut. A shortcut that his legislative GPS did not show did not exist in Virginia.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    somewhat personal to the OP

    Thanks for coming aback and fixing the drive-by issue.

    The News Editor could have either had a news/analysis piece about why Virginia "domestic abusers" are still allowed to have guns, or a great editorial about why the General Assembly should change the law by adding the crime of "misdemeanor domestic violence" so that these evil, nasty, hurtful people could be stripped of an enumerated Constitutional right on conviction of a misdemeanor offense.

    Instead, he presents us with a screed against the uncaring, probably immoral, folks with such a fixation on guns that they will not "see the light".

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Thanks for coming aback and fixing the drive-by issue.

    The News Editor could have either had a news/analysis piece about why Virginia "domestic abusers" are still allowed to have guns, or a great editorial about why the General Assembly should change the law by adding the crime of "misdemeanor domestic violence" so that these evil, nasty, hurtful people could be stripped of an enumerated Constitutional right on conviction of a misdemeanor offense.

    Instead, he presents us with a screed against the uncaring, probably immoral, folks with such a fixation on guns that they will not "see the light".

    stay safe.
    He is blinded by his own light......no matter how dim and misdirected it may be. It is his light and he will contiue on the path he wishes to travel.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    He is blinded by his own light......no matter how dim and misdirected it may be. It is his light and he will contiue on the path he wishes to travel.
    He's probably a dog hunter. They're a little slow understanding rights and laws. Probably from all that time sitting in their pickups sniffing exhaust.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I know deer hunters, turkey hunters, and rabbit hunters, but not dog hunters. When does the season open......or are they (the dog hunters) a nuisance species?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I know deer hunters, turkey hunters, and rabbit hunters, but not dog hunters. When does the season open......or are they (the dog hunters) a nuisance species?

    They are a nuisance but they are also endangered so the government tries to protect them. Isn't working though.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    He's probably a dog hunter. They're a little slow understanding rights and laws. Probably from all that time sitting in their pickups sniffing exhaust.
    Geez You are really hung up on dog hunters.
    I know as part of the OCDO Trinity you're largely exempt from the rules but seriously let it go. We all understand you don't approve of the completely legal act of dog hunting. We get it. Let it go.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Geez You are really hung up on dog hunters.
    I know as part of the OCDO Trinity you're largely exempt from the rules but seriously let it go. We all understand you don't approve of the completely legal act of dog hunting. We get it. Let it go.
    You misjudge Peter and his status.

    Peter has and continues to lobby hard both at our General Assembly and with gun groups to improve the lot of all legal hunters.

    What is missed by those not having all of the story/background is that illegal hunting, trespass, destruction of property, and much more that has been documented is what Peter finds so distasteful and to what he refers.

    Not unlike other rights, dog hunters rights end where others rights begin.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Once again pretending that there is a possibility of getting the thread drift back on course -

    jut so I can feel all smug at stuff: show of hands - how many knew beforehand that there is no crime of "domestic violence" in Virginia?

    Another show of hands: how many know why the Va courts stopped submitting names of people to the Lautenberg Amendment database?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Geez You are really hung up on dog hunters.
    I know as part of the OCDO Trinity you're largely exempt from the rules but seriously let it go. We all understand you don't approve of the completely legal act of dog hunting. We get it. Let it go.
    It has nothing to do with the trinity. I probably have more edited, deleted or butt chewed than anyone here....I just don't blubber about it.
    I believe in rights, all rights including and especially the rights of property owners. Now nothing I say here will change trespassing, poaching,etc any more than it will change illegal local ordinances, police misconduct or the need to change other laws. I work in other areas for that and yeah, there are a lot of things I could let go. Better solution though, if you don't like what I say, the ignore feature works very well.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Once again pretending that there is a possibility of getting the thread drift back on course -

    jut so I can feel all smug at stuff: show of hands - how many knew beforehand that there is no crime of "domestic violence" in Virginia?

    Another show of hands: how many know why the Va courts stopped submitting names of people to the Lautenberg Amendment database?

    stay safe.
    I think many of us know it Skidmark's that doesn't do much to educate the author though. Philip could have jumped on it though.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post

    the OCDO Trinity .
    John Pierce, the moderator sent to keep us from sinning, and Mike?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Well excuse me. I suppose I was wrong. I apologize and encourage everyone to acknowledge my wrong. Especially everyone should overlook that EACH one of the holy OCDO trinity spoke up against my post. My apologies. We are all one in the same.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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  21. #21
    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Well excuse me. I suppose I was wrong. I apologize and encourage everyone to acknowledge my wrong. Especially everyone should overlook that EACH one of the holy OCDO trinity spoke up against my post. My apologies. We are all one in the same.
    While the above made me chuckle, I found your earlier rant a bit disproportionately aggressive and rather random.
    Be active.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Well excuse me. I suppose I was wrong. I apologize and encourage everyone to acknowledge my wrong. Especially everyone should overlook that EACH one of the holy OCDO trinity spoke up against my post. My apologies. We are all one in the same.
    With apologies to any trinitarians, if that's the case I claim the title/status of The Holy [expletive]it.

    And there goes all hope of getting back on course.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  23. #23
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    While the above made me chuckle, I found your earlier rant a bit disproportionately aggressive and rather random.
    Well of course. As the Trinity promptly descended on me, as I know they would, I made my apologies.
    Last edited by twoskinsonemanns; 07-04-2015 at 07:13 AM.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Well of course. As the Trinity promptly descended on me, as I know they would, I made my apologies.
    An apology, a real one, generally is followed with a cessation of repeating the original offense.

    That several people here are routinely quite active both on the forum and out in the public and frequently see eye to eye, should come as no surprise, but such should not be cause for derisive comments or not well disguised insults.

    There is a Trinity on OCDO, but it is found under the heading of Administration, not as you apply the term.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #25
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Well of course. As the Trinity promptly descended on me, as I know they would, I made my apologies.
    Just let it roll off your back, it makes no sense us fighting amongst ourselves
    JFT 96

    I'm sorry, did I offend you with my opinion?
    You should hear the ones I keep to myself.

    Porthos, Athos, and Aramis = peter nap, skidmark and Grapeshot, d'Artagnan = ?

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